What a dreadful season

[leaffie]

While most of the posters here were not around to live through the beginning seasons of the Jays, I was. Of all the terrible seasons, with no wins, and no name players, this is the worst that I ever remember.

 

It is the most disappointing, after all the moves, and hype. To see all the excitement of the new fans, and old ones in the off season, to the absolutely disgusting end, when the Red Sox clinched, with Farrell and that smug look on his face, I can't think of a baseball moment I hated more than that.

 

But there is hope for next year. The Jays can't possibly have three years in a row with the endless list of injuries. There is hope that now that Rogers has put up the money, and seen the resulting attendance figures, they will continue.

 

But since fans have nothing else to do until next spring, I am looking for some positives for this team going forward. If anyone has some to add, please feel free.

 

IMHO Drabek will be our surprise next year.

Gose will continue to improve at the plate, and in the field.

Lawrie will have a full season of great defense and production.

 

Any more????

[GD]

IMHO Drabek will be our surprise next year.

 

I really hope so, cause man was that a horrible bet I made with BTS.

[Tuco]

One thing we can look forward too is that for the first time in forever we should have some nice starting pitching depth next season.

 

I also dont think theres any excuse for us not to be major players for Tanaka and Abreu.

[Olerud363]

But there is hope for next year. The Jays can't possibly have three years in a row with the endless list of injuries. There is hope that now that Rogers has put up the money, and seen the resulting attendance figures, they will continue.

 

Why wouldn't the Jays have three years in a row with endless injuries?? You're assuming the injuries are a fluke.

 

Lawrie is all of a sudden going to stay healthy?? Morrow?? Bautista at 33??

 

EE with with a history of wrist injuries will be healthy at 31?? Reyes with his history will be healthy??

 

Cecil, Janssen, and Delabar with their histories will be healthy?? Romero with his historic breakdown will be healthy??

 

Lind with a history of back problems will be healthy?? Rasmus??

 

We have absolutely nothing at 2nd and catcher and we are going to be able to find players here who are both good and healthy??

 

Next year there will be a lot of injuries, I don't know who will get hit but a subgroup of the above group will be injured and unproductive.

 

The Blue Jays have no players playing 150 games this year. Lind will probably end up being the leader with 144 games (and a history of back problems), EE with 142 season ended by wrist surgery, then JP at 140 with a .190 average and .220something on base percentage.

 

Those are the healthy guys.

 

Expecting that crew to be healthy is beyond ridiculous. Next year there will be injuries. It's not luck, it's the type of players that we build around.

[Olerud363]

Not really lol. This team is f***ed.

 

Short and sweet. This team is beyond f***ed. We sold the farm system to get f***ed. We made a deal witih the devil, sold our soul, and didn't even get a day of contention. #beestly, #wearef***ed.

[theblujay]

Well at least we'll have no expectations at all so when we come in last next season it won't be a surprise.

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

Short and sweet. This team is beyond f***ed. We sold the farm system to get f***ed. We made a deal witih the devil, sold our soul, and didn't even get a day of contention. #beestly, #wearef***ed.

 

Funny how some of the posters who think they are a destroyed team were the same ones who predicted they'd do well this year. Its the safest bet in the world that the Jays will be better next year. They are now a decent budget team, have almost all their good players on contract, and have had about as bad a run in injuries as one can expect for two years. And you can claim the injuries will continue but in reality the chances are quite strong that a guy like Lawrie will be fine moving forward. The chances that two starters will be beaned on the mound, that half their infield is injured half a season, that they will have three starters as bad as Morrow/Johnson/Romero were this year is very small.

 

How much better depends on how well they fill their holes and some luck on their choices of a starting staff. I believe if they dump JPA, Gibbons, and Johnson they are already a whole lot better without even hardly an effort. If they fail to do this, then AA is truly a problem. Let's find out, its going to be a busy off season for the Jays and I bet they make one big acquisition that will surprise a lot of people here.

 

If they make the playoffs next year, and I don't care why or how, I want you to bring up your post again. Go ahead, tell me now how many games you think they will win ( I'm sure Vegas will provide an O/U number you can bet U on, should be easy money right ? ), and what odds you would grant on them not making the playoffs. Must be at least 100-1 the way you are posting, with maybe 73 wins being your target ? Myself, I want to see their off season moves.

[GD]

Its the safest bet in the world that the Jays will be better next year.

 

http://www.gabeswebsite.com/images/reaction/Edward-Norton-Closing-Laptop.gif

[GD]

What's so outlandish about that.

 

There absolutely isn't any guarantee we'll be better next year.

[GD]

Meh, I'd bet this team has a better record next year in a heartbeat. Although I don't do that anymore since getting stiffed for 200!

 

Oh there's certainly a decent enough chance, but Ratmatazz has had his injuries, the rotation is s***, Bautista is getting up there, we have no C/2B/maybe LF, etc.

[GD]

You think the Jays will stand pat? Melky will be a different ballplayer next year.

 

Probably not but at the same time I don't want to expect big things from this team. And I really hope we see an improved Melky, that'd be so sweet.

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

There absolutely isn't any guarantee we'll be better next year.

 

This is one of the highest probability situations in recent memory. First, cut JPA and Gibbons. Is the team better ? Definately. Let Johnson walk. Can they find someone better then Johnson version 2013 ? I think they can. Can they find free agents or get comebacks from players better then Bonofocio/Morrow/Ortiz/Wang/Cabrera/Izturis ? High probability they can. Can they get more games from Reyes/Lawrie ? No guarantees but odds are one of them will play more if not both of them. Could any of their pool of minor league or often injured starting pitchers become genuine useful parts of the rotation ? Odds are one of them will, with none of them or two of them being the next more likely options. But none of them just means they have the same team problems as this year. And another huge reason why they might get better next year is they might start better and be genuine buyers at the trade deadline.

 

So what can get worse on this team ? Realistically, I can only think of a few things. Bautista could miss most of the season. Or he could be traded for a player who is a complete bust as a Jay. Their bullpen could fall apart, but they seem deep in that area so I don't think so. Buehrle and Dickey could be worse. I actually think Dickey will get better. I think Buehrle is a downside risk but he's not much better then an average pitcher anyways this season. Encarnacian could get hurt, but that's not been his history.

 

So I'll say there is a scenario where they get no decent free agents, Bautista or Encarnacian gets hurt most of the season, Reyes gets hurt again, Buehrle is terrible, and not a single decent starting pitcher emerges from the deep pool of maybe's they have now. Sure it could happen. I just don't think it will.

[GD]

Just so you know, I'm not reading beyond "cut Gibbons"

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

Just so you know, I'm not reading beyond "cut Gibbons"

 

Wel, its good then that most of your useless posts are one line long because they stand a better chance of being read.

[GD]

Wel, its good then that most of your useless posts are one line long because they stand a better chance of being read.

 

>better chance of being read

 

"Better to write for yourself and have no public, than to write for the public and have no self." -Cyril Connolly

[DH12]

They will still be in last place next year

 

While most of the posters here were not around to live through the beginning seasons of the Jays, I was. Of all the terrible seasons, with no wins, and no name players, this is the worst that I ever remember.

 

It is the most disappointing, after all the moves, and hype. To see all the excitement of the new fans, and old ones in the off season, to the absolutely disgusting end, when the Red Sox clinched, with Farrell and that smug look on his face, I can't think of a baseball moment I hated more than that.

 

But there is hope for next year. The Jays can't possibly have three years in a row with the endless list of injuries. There is hope that now that Rogers has put up the money, and seen the resulting attendance figures, they will continue.

 

But since fans have nothing else to do until next spring, I am looking for some positives for this team going forward. If anyone has some to add, please feel free.

 

IMHO Drabek will be our surprise next year.

Gose will continue to improve at the plate, and in the field.

Lawrie will have a full season of great defense and production.

 

Any more????

[DH12]

Short and sweet. This team is beyond f***ed. We sold the farm system to get f***ed. We made a deal witih the devil, sold our soul, and didn't even get a day of contention. #beestly, #wearef***ed.

 

We are still the worst team in the East by good margin even if they do get a few extra pitchers

[SAAviour]

Come on guys, we upgrade JP to an actual major league catcher and we are a whole new team...I'm waiting for the catcher spot to be decided before I predict anything next year. It is beyond belief how bad he is at everything baseball related.

I'm wondering if it's mathematically possible to have his OBP drop below .200 cause that would be epic.

[leaffie]

Not really lol. This team is f***ed.

 

You have to have hope :-)

 

I do believe that if they can manage to keep their players on the field, they could meld into a good team.

 

I loathe Boston, and try to be objective. But I really don't think they are that good, just that everyone else in the division has been so bad. Now if they win the WS, then I will have to admit I was wrong.

 

But in the meantime, I am just going to look forward to next year for the Jays (again), and wish nothing but bad luck to the Sox.

[Convo]

I think Dickey could rebound nicely. The BB rate was a big problem in the first-half and he has it down to 2.97 per nine. And he suppressed homers pretty nicely from 2010-12, so you gotta think the homers will go down too. Maybe a 3.50 ERA guy.

 

Unfortunately he has been giving up homers consistently all year... while it may drop a little next year, I doubt it's significant.

[Jays]

Unfortunately he has been giving up homers consistently all year...

 

The difference between Citi and the ALE I imagine.

[guylaroche5]

Unfortunately he has been giving up homers consistently all year... while it may drop a little next year, I doubt it's significant.

 

#raisethefences

[TheHurl]

I happen to think the Jays could be much better set up this year than they were last year...I just have no faith in this org to do the right moves (which my beliefs are closer to standing pat then most around here think). Still don't think they will make the playoffs but potential starting pitching depth = better set up.

[Olerud363]

Funny how some of the posters who think they are a destroyed team were the same ones who predicted they'd do well this year. Its the safest bet in the world that the Jays will be better next year. They are now a decent budget team, have almost all their good players on contract, and have had about as bad a run in injuries as one can expect for two years. And you can claim the injuries will continue but in reality the chances are quite strong that a guy like Lawrie will be fine moving forward. The chances that two starters will be beaned on the mound, that half their infield is injured half a season, that they will have three starters as bad as Morrow/Johnson/Romero were this year is very small.

 

How much better depends on how well they fill their holes and some luck on their choices of a starting staff. I believe if they dump JPA, Gibbons, and Johnson they are already a whole lot better without even hardly an effort. If they fail to do this, then AA is truly a problem. Let's find out, its going to be a busy off season for the Jays and I bet they make one big acquisition that will surprise a lot of people here.

 

If they make the playoffs next year, and I don't care why or how, I want you to bring up your post again. Go ahead, tell me now how many games you think they will win ( I'm sure Vegas will provide an O/U number you can bet U on, should be easy money right ? ), and what odds you would grant on them not making the playoffs. Must be at least 100-1 the way you are posting, with maybe 73 wins being your target ? Myself, I want to see their off season moves.

 

It's not the safest bet in the world the Jays will be better. The safest bet in the world is that the sun will come up tommorow. 99.99999999999999% or so. A safe bit is that society will exist tomorrow, 99.999 or so (assuming idiots like Beeston continue to prosper society will likely collapse in the next 100 years, so every day there is about a 1/400000 or so chance of humanity ending, but still tomorrow will probably come, the sun will rise, more than likely humans will still be here).

 

That the blue jays will be better next year?? 60% chance maybe. In terms of all the bets possible in the world?? It is in the 60th percentile of safeness.

 

The infielders, Lawrie, Reyes, EE, and mr. X played an average of about 110 games. It will be somewhere between 100 and 120 next year. There will be not be a significant difference in games played by infielders. Your claim that Lawrie and Reyes will not miss half the season may be true... they didn't miss half the season this year... in the end they will have missed about 40% of the season. Next year they may play more, but EE may play less coming off of a bumb wrist. Or mr. X.. the unknown second basemen may miss a lot of time. I don't know.

 

The chances the Dickey, Buerhle, Morrow, Mr. Y. and Mr. Z will be better then this year?? I don't know. We're betting on a 35 and 39 year old to pitch 200 innings, Morrow to rebound and pitch?? What 150 innings?? He's only done that once. And for Blue Jays management to somehow find the right Mr. Y. and Mr. Z.

 

And even if they are all healthy so what. These guys all have league average ERAs.

 

Then we have an outfield of Bautista, Rasmus, and Melky. They average about 110 games a year over the last 2 years. So next year what will it be?? Probably about 110.

 

I see no reason for the average games played, or the average performance of the starters, or the average health and performance of the bullpen to change.

 

Next year will be different set of occurences. Maybe Lawrie will play 150 and be an all star but Bautista has back problems and plays 25 games. Maybe Reyes rebounds but Lind goes back to .290 on base percentage Lind. Maybe Dickey contends for another Cy Young but Buehle finally suffers an injury and the bullpen explodes health and performance wise.

 

The trends of injuries, underperformance and "bad luck" will continue, because they are not random but reflect an horrible front office acquiring elderly, declining players.

 

The Toronto Blue Jays will win 79 games next year, they will get the 14th overall pick, some injury s*** will happen, some prospects will dissapoint, Gibby will get fired (undeservedly), AA won't, Beeston will start formulating his own "retirement plan".

 

This iteration of the Toronto Blue Jays has ended. It is over. The next 2 or 3 year are only there to let Paul Beeston get out "gracefully". More than likely part of that "graceful exit" will be putting AA in as president. So until about 2015 it's a holding pattern, with AA as president and a new GM the next rebuild starts then.

[leaffie]

Well glad to see that the constant negativity, that is blue jays land reigns supreme. How about some suggestions on how to fix the team. And not the fire so and so, over and over again.

 

How about some suggestions on who is a better player that the Jays have a chance of getting. How about some prospects that most are so in love with, that the Jays could get, and what they would have to give up. How about some legitimate discussion on what pitchers would be successful in Rogers center. How about some viable trades that would help this team going forward.

 

It is easy to say, this team will be dead last again next year. But since this is a discussion board, how about some discussion.

[GD]

Well glad to see that the constant negativity, that is blue jays land reigns supreme. How about some suggestions on how to fix the team. And not the fire so and so, over and over again.

 

http://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/1297-You-Fix-The-Team

[JaysAllMighty]

What I disliked the most about our team this year was the way they acted when getting on base with their stupid sign and celebrating home runs like they won the WS. We have a bunch of clowns for a team.

 

And what happened to knowing baseball fundamentals? How many blunders have we seen over and over again, every game?

 

And the arrogance of the young players that we have, so unprofessional.

 

Gibbons should have layed down the law, make them act like a SERIOUS team wanting to win. Not like a bunch of clowns.

 

And to be honest, I don't see them being any better next year. Not unless they git rid of the leading clowns and bring some serious players to the team.

[TheHurl]

How about some suggestions on how to fix the team.

 

Time machine might help.

 

The reason you aren't getting a lot of discussion about who will help this team is that so many on this board don't believe in the front office and we have so few trade chips that aren't huge parts of the team. Things this team will do next year: Add a starter, Macier to 25th man and make a decision at catcher. Hopefully they have a little more depth which was one of the issues this year. However, I still don't think this is a playoff team. If we want to make this into a playoff team I believe they have to trade producing, well-liked veteran players and deal with the consequences at the box office . An even bigger priority this off season is talking extension with Rasmus, if he won't sign you have to start looking at his market. Stop this dealing with one year ********, start running this organization properly and looking at next year and the future years.

[Boxcar]

Funny how some of the posters who think they are a destroyed team were the same ones who predicted they'd do well this year.

 

Obviously we'd have known better if we all had a prestigious honors in math from Waterloo.

[Boxcar]

First, cut JPA and Gibbons. Is the team better ? Definately.

 

Hey Mr. Prestigious Degree, if you put an "a" in "definitely," then you're definitely an A-hole.

 

Also, cutting Gibbons solves so many problems? Jesus, I didn't take you for one of those simpletons who take the most convenient scapegoat and run with it.