Can Ryan Goins stick?

[ElNik2013]

+8 runs over a full season, probably not enough for him to be useful.

 

 

 

How are Lawrie's defensive metrics looking?

[GD]

How are Lawrie's defensive metrics looking?

 

Negative, but 13 games doesn't really mean much for Lawrie, Goins or anyone, ever. Didn't like him last year, either. DRS doesn't like him this year but that means jack s*** through 13 games.

 

Over his career though, Lawrie has a 4.7 UZR/150 and 18.2 DRS/150. His true talent is probably in between the two and closer to his UZR.

[ElNik2013]

Negative, but 13 games doesn't really mean much for Lawrie, Goins or anyone, ever. Didn't like him last year, either. DRS doesn't like him this year but that means jack s*** through 13 games.

 

Over his career though, Lawrie has a 4.7 UZR/150 and 18.2 DRS/150. His true talent is probably in between the two and closer to his UZR.

 

 

 

Thanks.

[Caper]

Negative, but 13 games doesn't really mean much for Lawrie, Goins or anyone, ever. Didn't like him last year, either. DRS doesn't like him this year but that means jack s*** through 13 games.

 

Over his career though, Lawrie has a 4.7 UZR/150 and 18.2 DRS/150. His true talent is probably in between the two and closer to his UZR.

 

 

Can you explain that a little more for retards like myself... Does negative mean he allowed that many runs or saved that many runs with his defense?

[GD]

Can you explain that a little more for retards like myself... Does negative mean he allowed that many runs or saved that many runs with his defense?

 

Negative = cost runs. Positive = saved runs.. So according to the metrics, he's cost the team. That's obviously ********. Not a single defensive metric should be believed right now, just like most offensive metrics. It's mid April, nothing really means anything right now.

 

So over his career, per 150 games, DRS thinks he's saved 18.2 runs, or like a little less than 2 wins, and UZR thinks he's saved 4.7 runs, or around 0.5 wins. So it's probably around a win or so in reality.

[Caper]

Negative = cost runs. Positive = saved runs.. So according to the metrics, he's cost the team. That's obviously ********. Not a single defensive metric should be believed right now, just like most offensive metrics. It's mid April, nothing really means anything right now.

 

So over his career, per 150 games, DRS thinks he's saved 18.2 runs, or like a little less than 2 wins, and UZR thinks he's saved 4.7 runs, or around 0.5 wins. So it's probably around a win or so in reality.

 

Ok.... So I'm glad you can obviously see that this is ********.... and I suppose over time I guess this stat is going to produce an accurate measure of Lawrie's fielding ability.

 

But this is what gets me. This is say.... 9% of Lawrie's season (lets home he plays around 140 games). In the 1st 9%... this stat, gave a completely ******** result.... complete and utter ********. Are we just to assume that over the next 15 games, we are not going to get the same thing?.... that there should be some equal positive ******** to balance the complete negative ********? I really can't think of one bad play he has made all year..... maybe not catching a hot liner that was drilled to him and extended the game a bit.

 

Is there another stat that can completely write off the uselessness of the 1st 9% of this one?

[Abomination]

Ok.... So I'm glad you can obviously see that this is ********.... and I suppose over time I guess this stat is going to produce an accurate measure of Lawrie's fielding ability.

 

But this is what gets me. This is say.... 9% of Lawrie's season (lets home he plays around 140 games). In the 1st 9%... this stat, gave a completely ******** result.... complete and utter ********. Are we just to assume that over the next 15 games, we are not going to get the same thing?.... that there should be some equal positive ******** to balance the complete negative ********? I really can't think of one bad play he has made all year..... maybe not catching a hot liner that was drilled to him and extended the game a bit.

 

Is there another stat that can completely write off the uselessness of the 1st 9% of this one?

 

As soon as the new MLBAM data collection is rolled out to all the parks, we should start to get a pretty accurate idea of fielding ability. Right now we make do with the best we have, but it really is lacking in general.

[NorthOf49]

Just a general note on defensive stats.

 

The -3 DRS and -0.4 UZR recorded so far have happened. Abstract stuff goes into it, but they do take real inputs and describe things that have occurred on the field. Brett has cost the team three runs compared to the average third baseman given the oppurtunities he's received by DRS, and 0.4 runs by UZR.

 

It's exactly like how he's posted a -5.0 wRAA on offense. Neither that nor his defensive stats reflect his talent, but both are credible numbers that reflect what has happened in the first 9% of this season. Both offensive and defensive performance is subject to great variance, and over a large sample it balances out. I hate it when people say "defensive stats cannot be trusted in small samples." Neither can anything other than Ks and BBs for pitchers, really. And those still take some time to balance out.

[Caper]

The -3 DRS and -0.4 UZR recorded so far have happened. Abstract stuff goes into it, but they do take real inputs and describe things that have occurred on the field. Brett has cost the team three runs compared to the average third baseman given the oppurtunities he's received by DRS, and 0.4 runs by UZR.

 

 

That's what I am saying... I watched every game this year. Where were these mistakes, that average 3rd basemen make that Lawrie didn't? Mark Buehrle was shaking his head in awe of him the other night..... I would love to see where he received every one of his negative data points that produced such a result.

[Caper]

Defensive shifts may be ruining our current defensive metrics, I'm not sure what is being done to combat them. Originally the stats effectively have credit to the player for skill and positioning, now positioning is pre-decided. The negative plays may be plays on which he was shifted.

 

Good point.... I bet you are bang on.

[flafson]

That's what I am saying... I watched every game this year. Where were these mistakes, that average 3rd basemen make that Lawrie didn't? Mark Buehrle was shaking his head in awe of him the other night..... I would love to see where he received every one of his negative data points that produced such a result.

 

There was the time when it skipped off his glove and Buehrle couldn't get a complete game. Other than that i don't recall anything and i've been watching everything.

[shortstop]

There was the time when it skipped off his glove and Buehrle couldn't get a complete game. Other than that i don't recall anything and i've been watching everything.

 

that was special to see Buehrle stare in awe & not even turn to look at first...I gotta admit I am a huge fan of Lawrie's defence at 3rd...keeps getting better & more consistent

[G-Snarls]

that was special to see Buehrle stare in awe & not even turn to look at first...I gotta admit I am a huge fan of Lawrie's defence at 3rd...keeps getting better & more consistent

 

Yep, it's amazing. Not just the highlight reel plays, which happen almost daily, but the steadiness. He used to knock too many balls down rather than catch them cleanly, and used to make dumb throws occasionally. Now he almost never does either. There are gold gloves in his future, no doubt

 

P.S. Welcome to the board

[KingKat]

There are gold gloves in his future, no doubt

 

 

It would help if Machado moved back to SS. The AL is so stacked with killer 3B right now with Beltre and Zimmerman in the mix.

[ElNik2013]

There was the time when it skipped off his glove and Buehrle couldn't get a complete game. Other than that i don't recall anything and i've been watching everything.

 

 

I remember that play, but I think he made some nice plays in that game as well. I've been watching a lot and his defense is legit. So is Goins's yet the metrics say otherwise. Who knows, but I'll go with what I see and say they're both elite defenders.

[theblujay]

2 hit night

[Orgfiller]

2 hit* night

 

*was accomplished against the Minnesota Twins.

 

ftfy

[GD]

ftfy

 

lmao that's equivalent to like 1-4/0-4 against major league pitching

[GD]

Goins > Kawasaki apparently

[gruber92]

Goins > Kawasaki apparently

 

Shocker.

[GD]

Shocker.

 

lol you're gonna take this like it's anything but a dumn decision by the FO

[fatcowxlive]

Shocker.

 

I know you're being sarcastic but it's true. Kawa > Goins

[gruber92]

lol you're gonna take this like it's anything but a dumn decision by the FO

 

The pitching staff needs coddling right now at the very least. Goins provides this more so than Kawasaki.

[GD]

The pitching staff needs coddling right now at the very least. Goins provides this more so than Kawasaki.

 

This small a sample is not enough to justify RA9 so defense shouldn't be taken into value

 

FIP based WAR and xFIP are the better indicators of value for pitchers rn

 

I'm tired as f*** and so not about this life but Kawa > Goins, full stop.

[gruber92]

This small a sample is not enough to justify RA9 so defense shouldn't be taken into value

 

FIP based WAR and xFIP are the better indicators of value for pitchers rn

 

I'm tired as f*** and so not about this life but Kawa > Goins, full stop.

 

SSS? Lol, his defense will not regress.

 

Jesus..

[GD]

SSS? Lol, his defense will not regress.

 

Jesus..

 

Okay, wow, not only did you misinterpret what I was saying but you're also wrong! Goins' defense is still SSS, and I was talking about the pitching being in too small a sample size to use RA9 to evaluate so your evaluation should be defense independent, but good effort Gruber!

 

http://angryfeministkilljoy.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/tried-and-failed-star.png

[gruber92]

How about we just simplify things?

 

- Goins is a much better defender

- Pitching staff is being taxed

- The difference in offense(if there is one,sss right now so can't evaluate yet) is not a big enough difference to justify Kawasaki staying up.

 

Pretty easy s*** if you ask me.

[GD]

How about we just simplify things?

 

- Kawasaki is a much better hitter

- We need offense

- Kawasaki is above replacement level and Goins isn't

 

Pretty easy s*** if you ask me.

[over500]

It terrifies me that AA might be seeing Goins as a prospect.

[gruber92]

LOL..

 

Fail, in every way.