Can Ryan Goins stick?

[GD]

The best part about me getting ripped for "wanting to make that trade and going against theblujay and BTS and NJH and blah blah blah" is that I've never actually stated my opinion on whether I would do that trade or not

 

So all I have learned from these small interactions is that some idiots will jump on the chance to rip you whenever they can. I've made maybe.,, 4 or 5 posts in this whole Phillips discussion? Jesus Christ

 

Just my advice, I probably wouldn't post your opinion now, it's a lose lose. Either U HATE DA TRADE HIVEMIND or YUR A DUMN TEEN LIKE GD.

 

This could have been such a better discussion.

[GD]

YOU'RE (that's for you GD)

 

thaaaaaanks BFF <3

[JSFIP]

Gotta love that sneaky edit by King. Classic stuff there.

[GD]

Oops lol

 

A copout wasn't such a bad idea

[SAAviour]

If gordie was the gm and pulled off a trade for Philips with hutch, Sanchez and morrow he would get ripped to shreds and I would f***in hate the guy....however, it's true that perhaps morrow never pitches again, Sanchez drifts off into bust which is highly possible and hutch is a 5 at best and in the end we win the trade.

 

Reminds me of another gm who landed dickey....maybe in the end we win the trade, no need to rip on the gm yet until we know....and what's the point of ripping on gordie for suggesting it, it's fun to talk potential trades. No need to be bitches about it.

[GD]

Reminds me of another gm who landed dickey

 

I just got compared to AA, didn't I? That cuts deep. 3

[JSFIP]

Nope... I'm actually pretty on the fence about this trade. I've thought about it a lot, I can see the arguments for both sides. That's my opinion that's all there is to it, but good on you for jumping to conclusions.

 

You know what, I respect that. But only going against theblujay and teaming up with GD sure doesn't make it seem that way. Why didn't you post anything at all negative about the trade then? I don't get it.

[GD]

You know what, I respect that. But only going against theblujay and teaming up with GD sure doesn't make it seem that way. Why didn't you post anything at all negative about the trade then? I don't get it.

 

I would think that his points had already been made by others, not to speak for King.

[JSFIP]

I would think that his points had already been made by others, not to speak for King.

 

Not really, unless I missed them.

[JSFIP]

This would be it yes. I saw lots of arguments in this thread that made sense for both sides.

 

Oh, that's what you meant. Okay then, still doesn't really make sense but whatever.

[theblujay]

Nope... I'm actually pretty on the fence about this trade. I've thought about it a lot, I can see the arguments for both sides. That's my opinion that's all there is to it, but good on you for jumping to conclusions.

Keep on back pedaling, but just like a bike YOURE going nowhere. You had no problem jumping all over me when I pointed out how insane the deal was.

[GD]

Keep on back pedaling, but just like a bike YOURE going nowhere. You had no problem jumping all over me when I pointed out how insane the deal was.

 

*You're

 

Good effort though! 10 points for trying!

[GD]

You probably deserve to get ripped

 

Just to provide actual substance in my ripping.

 

>You're extrapolating a 30 game sample

>You're making them seem closer than they are by not posting the numbers

>It's pretty simple to know what to expect from Goins thus far

[theblujay]

And your point is....

 

You weren't on the fence at all until the gang showed up and destroyed it. It's actually really funny to see. You guys thought you had sniffed out a big score for the gang, and then you realized YOUR mistake and started trying to save face by playing dumb and going for weak cheap shits (grammar, weak one line responses...)

[theblujay]

Just to provide actual substance in my ripping.

 

>You're extrapolating a 30 game sample

>You're making them seem closer than they are by not posting the numbers

>It's pretty simple to know what to expect from Goins thus far

 

So Goins extrapolated from those 30 games is actually pretty close to Phillips this year. You say it's a small sample, but I thought he was right at his talent level. I even think his bat could be a bit better. Do you really think he was playing way over his head

[GD]

You weren't on the fence at all until the gang showed up and destroyed it. It's actually really funny to see. You guys thought you had sniffed out a big score for the gang, and then you realized YOUR mistake and started trying to save face by playing dumb and going for weak cheap shits (grammar, weak one line responses...)

 

There aren't f***ing cliques it's a message board not a middle school my god

 

So Goins extrapolated from those 30 games is actually pretty close to Phillips this year. You say it's a small sample, but I thought he was right at his talent level. I even think his bat could be a bit better. Do you really think he was playing way over his head

 

I got 1.9 fWAR extrapolated, that's still a solid .6 off from Phillips who I think is better than his last year. And yes, he did play over his head, he has a 62 wRC+ on a .315 BABIP. He's basically Darwin Barney.

[SAAviour]

Back on subject, I think Phillips will be available this year...not sure if I would want him though to be honest.

 

 

2014 33 Cincinnati Reds $11,000,000

2015 34 Cincinnati Reds $12,000,000

2016 35 Cincinnati Reds $13,000,000

2017 36 Cincinnati Reds $14,000,000

 

I think we would end up hating that contract. Although I think I read that 1 war is worth 6.7 million this year so maybe it's a decent contract.

[John_Havok]

His UZR/150 was 33.1. That doesn't even really exist as a true talent level.

 

How dare you. SSS be damned, I think it's more likely that Goins is the best defender in the history of the game

[theblujay]

There aren't f***ing cliques it's a message board not a middle school my god

 

 

 

I got 1.9 fWAR extrapolated, that's still a solid .6 off from Phillips who I think is better than his last year. And yes, he did play over his head, he has a 62 wRC+ on a .315 BABIP. He's basically Darwin Barney.

 

.6-1 WAR isn't much if an upgrade at all considering the massive cost. This is the same thing I was saying hours ago.

 

But who cares it's irrelevant because that trade would never happen.

[theblujay]

His UZR/150 was 33.1. That doesn't even really exist as a true talent level.

 

Just think about it for a second and stop looking at just the numbers. Do you think Goins was worth around half a win over those 30 games? The answer is obviously yes. Was he an excellent defender? Do the numbers back it up? Yes and yes.

[theblujay]

This is true actually, because some people made good points that made me think and reconsider. What are you trying to get at? It's got nothing to be with "being a part of the hive", if it was about that I would have posted s*** saying "OMG YA GOOD POINT I DEFINITELY AGREE BTS NJH YOU GUYS ARE GODS LET ME SUCK YOUR DICK" which, I didn't. I kept to myself, thought about the points made, and formed an opinion.

 

Here's what in getting at and why I'm mad: when I pointed out how ridiculous the trade was you didn't even for a second consider that my points were valid. You just laughed it off and ganged up on me. Then when they do it all of a sudden you reconsider.

[John_Havok]

Just think about it for a second and stop looking at just the numbers. Do you think Goins was worth around half a win over those 30 games? The answer is obviously yes. Was he an excellent defender? Do the numbers back it up? Yes and yes.

 

Goins played great defense in a small sample size, I don't think anyone can dispute that. But when you stop and actually think and evaluate (not your strong suit btw) what they mean, you can very easily expect that Goins will not continue to be the best defensive MIF in all of baseball history by a very large margin.

[JSFIP]

I don't recall you making any valid points.

 

"Morrow, when healthy, is our #1 guy. Hutch was great til he got hurt and he has a. Ton of potential. Sanchez? Only our top prospect with number one upside"

 

Is this not a valid point King? All you said to it was "you overvalue our players," but I still think it's valid.

[JSFIP]

No, to be honest. It wasn't a point that made me think. Because he's only thinking about the positives of those players, when all 3 of them have negatives.

 

So none of those reasons are at all valid for why those 3 should not be traded for Phillips? I think they are. Look up valid in the dictionary, it might help.

[theblujay]

No, to be honest. It wasn't a point that made me think. Because he's only thinking about the positives of those players, when all 3 of them have negatives.

 

I'm pretty sure I made it very clear that we were giving up too much to get too little, and a not so great contract. That was my point

[havok24]

This is true actually, because some people made good points that made me think and reconsider. What are you trying to get at? It's got nothing to be with "being a part of the hive", if it was about that I would have posted s*** saying "OMG YA GOOD POINT I DEFINITELY AGREE BTS NJH YOU GUYS ARE GODS LET ME SUCK YOUR DICK" which, I didn't. I kept to myself, thought about the points made, and formed an opinion.

 

f*** just spit out my corn flakes.

[GD]

His UZR/150 was 33.1. That doesn't even really exist as a true talent level.

 

Brett Gardner tho.

[theblujay]

You're calling a 33 UZR/150 his true talent level, and then extrapolating his full-season value based on 262 defensive innings of UZR, assuming he's the best defender in the history of baseball. Put down the stats, you haven't read the instruction manual.

 

I don't care about his UZR. We all know defensive stats are nowhere near perfect anyway. The fact that one defensive stat was high doesn't bother me. WAR said he was worth half a win. I believe that 100%. His D was definitely worth half a win more than his lack of a bat. And he didn't look like he was on a good luck streak on defense.

[theblujay]

There is no way for you to watch a player and determine what he's worth without the numbers. It isn't possible.

 

That's not my point. I'm saying that his WAR from those 30 games is entirely plausible based on his play. I don't really know much about defensive stats so I don't know about how uzr works and what the other defensive stars say about him, but I'm 100% positive the answer is overwhelmingly positive.

[theblujay]

I'm telling you that his WAR is only indicative of his true talent if you assume he's the best defender in the history of baseball. It really is that simple.

 

I have a question: what made his uzr so high? He certainly looked like an excellent defender, but not GOAT. You don't go on good luck streaks on defense, like how you would point to a high babip.