Can Ryan Goins stick?

[Smokey]

I feel like if we had Goins in April we would probably be 5 games better off just on defense alone.

 

Do me a favour and please never ever reproduce.

[theblujay]

It seems like some of you guys don't even watch the games. You just look at his babip and decide he's awful. As long as he's providing good D he doesn't need to hit that well to be useful.

[GD]

I don't know about you guys but i really like Goins. I feel like if we had Goins in April we would probably be 5 games better off just on defense alone.

For example, the game ending play he made tonight, in April when it was Bonifacio over there, same play would have been scored a single cause there is not way Boni would be able to make it. With Goins at 2B, that's an out and game over.

 

That isn't how WAR works.

 

It seems like some of you guys don't even watch the games. You just look at his babip and decide he's awful.

 

The only thing missing from this is a comment about how we look up stats from our mothers' basements, and you have a vintage Heyman VORP article.

[Smokey]

Seems to have backfired. Anything else? You seriously think i have a problem admitting when i'm wrong? Lol,youth.

 

Youth???

 

More baseless assertions from a delusional old man who's got too much of an ego to learn from his past mistakes.

 

LOL indeed.

[gruber92]

lol

 

Really? From a fundamental standpoint in MLB play?

[gruber92]

Youth???

 

More baseless assertions from a delusional old man who's got too much of an ego to learn from his past mistakes.

 

LOL indeed.

 

I just said i don't mind admitting when i'm wrong. WTF do you want from me? You jump on here with personal attacks? Nobody cares,seriously.

[havok24]

lol

[GD]

- Goins' 0.478 BABIP is not lucky because he hits the ball hard.

 

I may be off base in saying this, and fully acknowledge that possibility, but I don't think Goins is getting lucky as much as his stats are just plain unsustainable.

[Caper]

I may be off base in saying this, and fully acknowledge that possibility, but I don't think Goins is getting lucky as much as his stats are just plain unsustainable.

 

I think you read him wrong... Or I'm missing your sarcasm.

[GD]

I think you read him wrong... Or I'm missing your sarcasm.

 

Just my impressions of things;

 

-People say Goins isn't getting lucky despite his BABIP

-BTS disagrees in his post, implicating that he is in fact getting lucky

-I argue what may just be semantics, and say it's more sustainability and less luck

 

Idk, my reading comprehension occasionally goes to s***.

[theblujay]

Things said in this thread alone:

- There are more reasons to be excited about Goins than there were about Travis Snider, a consensus top-10 prospect when he broke in.

- Goins is a 6+ win player.

- Goins' 0.478 BABIP is not lucky because he hits the ball hard.

- Goins should be our starting 2B next season.

- Gose should be our starting CF next season.

- Goins has a 10% chance to be an MLB starter going forward.

 

And we're at less than 300 posts. I take back everything I've said about the Angels/Cards boards. This forum should be collectively ashamed.

 

-I don't think they said Goins was a 6 win player. They said Goins would have given us 5-6 more wins than we got from

-Izturis/Boni, who combined and at -2-3 WAR.

-Gose should be our starting CF with Rasmus in left.

-What's wrong with saying Goins has a 10% chance to be a starter? Is that so hard to believe? He plays good D so he only really needs to be a fringe average batter.

[theblujay]

Just my impressions of things;

 

-People say Goins isn't getting lucky despite his BABIP

-BTS disagrees in his post, implicating that he is in fact getting lucky

-I argue what may just be semantics, and say it's more sustainability and less luck

 

Idk, my reading comprehension occasionally goes to s***.

 

You're right BTS is wrong. If you watch the games, you see its not all luck, but not sustainable either.

[GD]

I find that in the case of polarizing players like this (and JJ, and Morrow, and Romero etc...) there's a tendency to take black and white hard-line stances. Luck or no luck. Obviously Goins has been lucky. That doesn't mean he hasn't also hit the ball well.

 

Fair enough. He also has a 27% LD% I think.

[Caper]

Obviously he is getting lucky with contact. But I will say this. He is isn't getting lucky when he takes a pitch. He almost never gets a call.... I guess that's a Rookie thing.

[gruber92]

I find that in the case of polarizing players like this (and JJ, and Morrow, and Romero etc...) there's a tendency to take black and white hard-line stances. Luck or no luck. Obviously Goins has been lucky. That doesn't mean he hasn't also hit the ball well.

 

His pitch recognition and that way he takes pitches is what has got my attention. He seems to have the ability to get himself into hitter's counts more often than the average rookie.

[GD]

Rookie P/PA: 3.84

Goins P/PA: 3.85

 

I don't feel like doing hitter's counts / game though lol

[gruber92]

Rookie P/PA: 3.84

Goins P/PA: 3.85

 

I don't feel like doing hitter's counts / game though lol

 

P/PA don't mean s***,you know that.

[GD]

P/PA don't mean s***,you know that.

 

Idk, that's the common narrative I've seen so far, that he takes lots of pitches, and it's being used as a huge positive (just in people I talk to). Not many people get that it isn't necessarily a good thing.

[gruber92]

Idk, that's the common narrative I've seen so far, that he takes lots of pitches, and it's being used as a huge positive (just in people I talk to). Not many people get that it isn't necessarily a good thing.

 

Yeah for sure,just look at Kawasaki.

 

The league was throwing a lot of first pitch off speed stuff to Goins early on,and he was disciplined enough to take that first pitch and instantly get himself into a hitter's count,where players like Pillar and others would flail. I think we'll see more first pitch fastballs thrown to Goins from here on,the question is will that be recognized and will he go ripping first pitch as a readjustment.

[Caper]

Goins comes through again... No luck involved.

[GD]

Goins comes through again... No luck involved.

 

lol

[gruber92]

#TankNation fans eat Crow.

 

Oops,wrong thread.

[theblujay]

Rookie P/PA: 3.84

Goins P/PA: 3.85

 

I don't feel like doing hitter's counts / game though lol

Once again you're trying to force the game into numbers. That says nothing about what kind of pitches he's swinging at and what he's letting go by and what count he's in when he's doing it.

[GD]

Once again you're trying to force the game into numbers. That says nothing about what kind of pitches he's swinging at and what he's letting go by and what count he's in when he's doing it.

 

This data is available as well. I think.

[Captain Adama]

This data is available as well. I think.

 

Z-swing and O-swing%

[GD]

Z-swing and O-swing%

 

Idk if they have it for specific pitch types and counts, though. PD and F/X data really aren't my strong suits.

[theblujay]

This data is available as well. I think.

 

Or you could just watch and see for yourself if he has a good approach

[GD]

Or you could just watch and see for yourself if he has a good approach

 

So can you recite to me every pitch of every PA from Goins this year?

 

Novel concept; watch the games and use the data. They're not mutually exclusive.

[G-Snarls]

Z-swing and O-swing%

 

I'd love to see a Goins vs Pillar comparison on those stats. Yikes.

[G-Snarls]

Speaking of whom... We *are* getting caught up in the initial results of two players who have been at the polar opposite of the performance spectrum through a few weeks in the big leagues. We need more time and development. Pillar probably has as much chance of making the team next year as Goins does, even though he looked atrocious in his first week.