Cleveland broadcasters rip the blue jays franchise (again)

[Boxcar]

Incase you're wondering who's skewing it, Pit/PA

 

Bau - 4.22

Kaw - 4.12

JPA - 3.98

DeRosa - 3.93

EE - 3.90

Lawrie - 3.84

Melky - 3.77

Boni - 3.65

Davis - 3.55

Izturis - 3.42

Reyes - 3.42

 

I think the only shocking one is JPA near the top, but I don't think it's because he's patient, it's because he hacks and fouls a lot. I don't mind Izturis/Reyes having low Pit/PA because they tend to make good contact.

 

Takes at least 3 pitches to strike out.

[Abomination]

A lot of the injuries seem to be stuff he only missed a few games for. Some guys can play through them, some have the sense to get it taken care of so it doesn't linger.

 

Reyes injury was clearly a fluke this time. If he had strained his hamstring or something, then it might be more valid to say that the injuries are correlated (imo). Regardless I'd happily take an elite guy who plays all out and misses 20 or 30 games a year as opposed to someone who never gives full effort and stays healthy.

[leaffie]

Every team south of the border is relishing the Jays failure this year. They didn't like the fact that the Jays pulled off such a big trade. They don't like the fact that there is even a team in Canada. They especially didn't like all the press awarding the Jays the WS, before a game was played. But it was not the Jays brass claiming to be winners. Every single time AA was asked or Gibbons, they said you have to win on the field, not on paper. It wasn't the Jays giving the Jays winning odds in Vegas.

 

As far as Cleveland and their all of a sudden hate for the Jays, it was never like that before. I can't stand Farrell and have no doubt it is coming from him. He was a golden hair boy when he was with Cleveland with their minor league system. So I am sure word has gotten to whomever he wanted to hear his side of things. Where did all the reports in Boston come from. In both cases, it was Farrell that was the common denominator. Too bad Farrell thinks he was thrown under the bus. Good thing I wasn't the GM, he would have been fired the day after the red sox hired someone else as their manager. The Jays treated him too well.

 

As far as this season has gone, no one could have forecasted the injuries, or the problems. I think the team will right itself, but all the naysayers will be able to rub their hands in glee. But as a fan, I would much rather the Jays take the chance and try to move this club in a different direction, than stutter along at .500 waiting for prospects that just never seem to live up to the hype.

[KSaw]

Sounds right on the money to me.

 

When Arencibia, Lawrie, Bonifacio, Davis and even Bautista go up hacking at the first pitch they like, no matter the count, score or situation, it's easy to rip on the team's approach. I'm tired of seeing the team down 3 in the 8th with no one out and a runner on and seeing hitters swing at the first pitch or even worse, a 3-1 pitch.

[G-Snarls]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/2013-pitches-batting.shtml

 

Wow, how many times have we, on this board, ripped our guys and made comments like how much more "professional" and "patient" Yankees hitters are. We were wrong.

[KSaw]

I've said this before but... Teams have so much computerized data and have a better idea than ever before as to what and where the next pitch will be from a given pitcher in a count or situation. It's backward that many teams have abandoned giving high priced players a take sign. This ego driven junk really took off in the mid 90s and almost no one gets a take sign anymore. Buck Showalter, LaRussa and Pinella resisted and Buck is last man standing. Logic says it should be the other way around.

[Abomination]

Wow, how many times have we, on this board, ripped our guys and made comments like how much more "professional" and "patient" Yankees hitters are. We were wrong.

 

The stat is a terrible one (has similar flaws to things like batting average). I think the issue people have is more WHAT we're swinging at and fouling off.

[G-Snarls]

The stat is a terrible one (has similar flaws to things like batting average). I think the issue people have is more WHAT we're swinging at and fouling off.

 

Perhaps. The one number doesn't tell the whole story, obviously. But this GIF might...

 

http://cdn.fangraphs.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/2DavisAllen2.gif.opt_.gif

[flafson]

Looks like the Carly Rae Jepsen pitch to be honest...

[G-Snarls]

Looks like the Carly Rae Jepsen pitch to be honest...

 

Rajai might have swung at that one to...

[Ehh]

The Jays have only struck out on 18.8 % of their PAs this year. Good for 11th in the league. Also have the 10th best walk rate. Our offense has been pretty decent this year. Bautista, EE, Rasmus, Lind and Reyes have had good seasons so far.

 

The pitching has been completely terrible. All of our starters suck and all of are best pitchers are bullpen arms.

[Stangstag]

The Jays have only struck out on 18.8 % of their PAs this year. Good for 11th in the league. Also have the 10th best walk rate. Our offense has been pretty decent this year. Bautista, EE, Rasmus, Lind and Reyes have had good seasons so far.

 

The pitching has been completely terrible. All of our starters suck and all of are best pitchers are bullpen arms.

 

We knew that this season would hinge on the success of our starting pitching. Well, our starters have all tanked. When we had the 11 game win streak, our starters were performing well. Now they are pitching like garbage, and we are losing.

[guylaroche5]

lol cleveland, maybe if it was a more credible team that actually has a history of winning i might actually be offended.

 

but LOL cleveland, what the f*** have they even done in the past decade, one first round postseason exit or some s***?

[EdelweissBouquet]

" doesn't play the game the right way" seems like a ******** dump. "

 

Many here have complained that most jays hitters don't grind out at bats,have no pitch recognition and make up their mind to swing or not to swing before the next pitch is thrown. And that is not playing the game the right way,

if the right way means playing to win and not to be the hero and bolster stats.

[kcjaysfan]

I recall people like Will Carroll have shown that injuries are correlated... even if they are seemingly different injuries.

 

Some guys ligaments and bones are just stronger, some guys are more graceful, some guys take less chances. Reyes allready had a similar ankle injury earlier in his career. His ankle ligaments just might not be that strong compared to the force his fast, fast, twitch muscles put on them.

 

Lawrie has allready had ribs on both sides injured in seemingly "fluke" plays. Travis D'arnaud has something different happen every 2 weeks seemingly.

 

So my understanding is injury distribution isn't random. So there is always a threat a guy like Reyes will go down with something...

 

 

Reyes has attempted over 500 stolen bases in his MLB career. I would say it's pretty likely that there a few awkward slides in a sample that large. Also, this injury has nothing to do with his muscles. It was the ground that injured him. I would say the probability would be damn close to one that any player who slid like that would have had the same thing happen to his ankle, although the severity of the injury could be different. What this all boils down to is the actual injury event was not due to Reyes injury history. Blame it on bad baserunning/sliding, blame it on him not being situationally aware and thus sliding too late, or hell, even blame it on his cleats or the ground. But don't blame it on his injury history, because that is a heap of horseshit.

[Olerud363]

Reyes has attempted over 500 stolen bases in his MLB career. I would say it's pretty likely that there a few awkward slides in a sample that large. Also, this injury has nothing to do with his muscles. It was the ground that injured him. I would say the probability would be damn close to one that any player who slid like that would have had the same thing happen to his ankle, although the severity of the injury could be different. What this all boils down to is the actual injury event was not due to Reyes injury history. Blame it on bad baserunning/sliding, blame it on him not being situationally aware and thus sliding too late, or hell, even blame it on his cleats or the ground. But don't blame it on his injury history, because that is a heap of horseshit.

 

?? I don't understand your point.

 

Bad baserunning/sliding, not being situationally aware, sliding too late, that is part of what is leading to the injury history... same with Lawrie.

 

These things are kind of like plate discipline. Not easily fixable.

 

Will Carroll used to have a rating system to predict injuries... It was a green, yellow, red system based on acturial data.

 

Insurance companies have pretty good acturial tables. You get into a car accident they raise your insurance. Why?? It was probably just a fluke right??

 

We don't understand exactly why people get into car accidents. But acturial tables show that if you get into one... good chance of another. Have two, really, really good chance of another??

 

Why?? Perhaps habits. Speeding, Perhaps factors that are very difficult to measure. Taking chances. Some innate lack of awareness.

 

We don't understand why things happen. Hard to model. But the past is often a good predictor of future even if we don't understand why.

[o2cui2i]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/2013-pitches-batting.shtml

 

take Kawasaki out of that and it's a different story. lol

 

my problem with the jays is more what pitches they swing at and at what point in the count. I dont care if a guy swings at the first pitch if it's middle in and middle in is his pitch. but then they swing at the first pitch and it's 6" off the outside corner, that bothers me. or the great 2-0 swings at balls above their shoulders.

 

one thing I have seen a lot of this year is guys more or less refusing to go the other way with RISP. pitchers have been throwing most of the jays RH hitters balls on the outer half with RISP because they are so pull happy. jays either roll that pitch over for a weak out (or two)or they DONT swing. if you have a runner at third and less than less than 2 outs, as a right handed batter, you have to hit that outside pitch they other way and at bare minimum score a run.

 

jays are not bad offensively because they lack ability, they are bad because they are STUPID AND/or ARROGANT.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Cleveland is the trashiest, filthiest, most disgusting city I've ever been in and all the games I've been to at Progressive Field have had Marlins-level attendance.

 

Take a road trip to Detroit.

[G-Snarls]

Take a road trip to Detroit.

 

Now filing for bankruptcy no less!!!

[Captain Adama]

Take a road trip to Detroit.

 

And whatever you do, don't stop.

[jays_fever]

Take a road trip to Detroit.

 

Ive never been to Detroit but DT Cleveland is more of a dump than Regent Park ( or any ghetto neighbourhood in Toronto)

[ManOnThird]

lol, I once saw a burnt cop car at the side of the road in Detroit, covered over in graffiti, a block from the police station. In Gary, Indiana, I saw a KFC with its windows busted out, but the place packed with customers.