Kawasaki, AA, Gord Ash, Jose Cruz... a bit of history

[DuckDuckGose]

I fail to see how astronomical payroll is a bad option. I, for one, would love Rogers to have a $200M payroll.

 

Attendance and TV ratings are way up, Rogers has always said they will spend if the fans show up. Last year they lived up to that commitment and spent big. There is some reason to believe that if fans continue to support the team at record levels payroll will continue to climb as there will be pressure to maintain a winning product.

 

The farm is very deep at the lowest levels but, thin on top prospects in the highest levels which have significantly more trade value. I wouldn't want to dip too much in the farm but, realistically one of Sanchez, Osuna or Stroman could headline a package for something significant.

[Anemic0ffense]

The issue is that 2013 is very likely the best version of this team.

 

You can argue that by saying that there's no way they can have an April as bad as this one..... Then again, you can turn it around and say, "Will they ever win 11 in a row again?"... Who knows? Not sure yet exactly who we can expect to progress/regress... I think we'll have about the same chances next year... I don't see any of the other AL EAST teams getting that much stronger either

[Arkadium]

Nice post I just don't get the connection to Cruz and Kawasaki? Kawasaki was cannon fodder and performed well for the time he was alloted. There's nothing about Kawasaki's talent that makes him an asset you can't lose. Maybe hire him as a cheer leader instead of a baseball player and you got something.

 

With that said I'd take Kawasaki over Boni. Boni is not even a baseball player.

[wilko]

Nice post I just don't get the connection to Cruz and Kawasaki? Kawasaki was cannon fodder and performed well for the time he was alloted. There's nothing about Kawasaki's talent that makes him an asset you can't lose. Maybe hire him as a cheer leader instead of a baseball player and you got something.

 

With that said I'd take Kawasaki over Boni. Boni is not even a baseball player.

 

Boni hates baseball more than Dunn.

[ElNik2013]

Does the F/O get ANY credit for picking up Kawasaki? Just asking.

 

I would've gone with Kawasaki at 2B just for the record. I think his D would play well there and I like his OBP and long AB's, long season and trading season is coming up so I think he could be back.

[IBTrini]

...From a baseball standpoint, the Kawasaki move was not the right move, but from an asset management it, arguably, was.

Not too sure what you are getting at with this statement cuz asset management is a crucial part of baseball operations. It does not have to be the main focal point but it cannot be dismissed entirely. There are always other GMs who will want to take a chance on catching lightening in a bottle especially if they have injuries to deal with therefore it is not in the best interest to needlessly throw away any assets at this point.

[GD]

Not too sure what you are getting at with this statement cuz asset management is a crucial part of baseball operations. It does not have to be the main focal point but it cannot be dismissed entirely.

 

In this case, putting your best team out there >>>>>>>>>>>> asset management. Plus, I don't think throwing away Bonifacio is really that bad an idea.

[KSaw]

In this case, putting your best team out there >>>>>>>>>>>> asset management. Plus, I don't think throwing away Bonifacio is really that bad an idea.

 

I personally have little to no use for Bonifacio. The problem is that several NL clubs are interested in him. Atlanta, Philadelphia, Cincinnati and Pittsburgh have shown interest. Well if none of the teams are ready to trade, AA has to wait it out. The Phillies really jump out here. They need to wait a few weeks before selling or the fan base would snap.

 

If Boni is the extra piece needed to close a deal, AA has to keep him for now.

[GD]

Damn, Kirk, you hate Boni haha.

[IBTrini]

In this case, putting your best team out there >>>>>>>>>>>> asset management. Plus, I don't think throwing away Bonifacio is really that bad an idea.

http://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/692-Munenori-Kawasaki-optioned?p=70209&viewfull=1#post70209

 

Asset management was just a part of my rebuttal - see link above for additional reason.

[GD]

http://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/692-Munenori-Kawasaki-optioned?p=70209&viewfull=1#post70209

 

Asset management was just a part of my rebuttal - see link above for additional reason.

 

About the pinch running, has he even done that in a crucial situation? It's always been Rajai and if rajai goes down Gose probably comes back up and does it.

[John_Havok]

In this case, putting your best team out there >>>>>>>>>>>> asset management. Plus, I don't think throwing away Bonifacio is really that bad an idea.

 

Since neither Kawasaki nor Boni would be playing full time, choosing one over the other based solely on "what have you done for me lately" would be short sighted. It comes do to who's skillset plays better on the bench of the Jays right now, and a switch hitting speedster who can back OF and infield is probably more needed than a light hitting MIF only backup. Bear on mind the Jays are going to go through this again when Lawrie comes back unless there's another injury at the same time. Dump a reliever or dump Boni.. Then when Santos is back...

[GD]

Since neither Kawasaki nor Boni would be playing full time, choosing one over the other based solely on "what have you done for me lately" would be short sighted. It comes do to who's skillset plays better on the bench of the Jays right now, and a switch hitting speedster who can back OF and infield is probably more needed than a light hitting MIF only backup. Bear on mind the Jays are going to go through this again when Lawrie comes back unless there's another injury at the same time. Dump a reliever or dump Boni.. Then when Santos is back...

 

Kawasaki isn't light hitting, though, he's carrying a .337 or so OBP. Plus, wouldn't he be starting at 2nd if he had stayed?

[GD]

He's probably the best 2B on the 40-man.

 

Maicer's the only one that really holds a candle to him imo, and that's just based off of pedigree. This year, he's the best far and away.

[John_Havok]

Maicer hasn't impressed thus far, but I think he's about ready to go on a bit of a run. I like Maicer better than Kawasaki as a starting 2b ROS. I also think how Maicer plays between now and the deadline is really going to play heavily into how aggressively AA pursues a 2b via trade.

[LGBJ29]

He's probably the best 2B on the 40-man.

 

based on 60 games

[admin]

It's pretty amazing we have three guys in this lineup with an OBP under .270. You shouldn't even be in the majors if you're under .300.

For some reason in today's game, it's acceptable. Look from 2009 and earlier. It's rare to see anyone with an OBP under .300 on the Jays

starting roster. What the f*** happened here.

 

Hitting wise, with Kawasaki, we had four players hitting under .230.

 

Boston doesn't have a player under .300 OBP. And I just noticed Iglesias is hitting .434, wtf, am I reading that right? lol

ANd Mike Carp on the bench hitting .321/.375.

 

The White Sox, who have the lowest OBP in the league have two guys under .270OBP (one guy with .271).

[LGBJ29]

Maicer hasn't impressed thus far, but I think he's about ready to go on a bit of a run. I like Maicer better than Kawasaki as a starting 2b ROS. I also think how Maicer plays between now and the deadline is really going to play heavily into how aggressively AA pursues a 2b via trade.

 

they said the other day on baseball central that Maicer's line drive percent is the highest its been in his career. Combine that with his low strikeout rate and you can conclude he's been rather unlucky. 60 games is a pretty small sample size if he keeps hitting like he is now things will turn around for him

[John_Havok]

they said the other day on baseball central that Maicer's line drive percent is the highest its been in his career. Combine that with his low strikeout rate and you can conclude he's been rather unlucky. 60 games is a pretty small sample size if he keeps hitting like he is now things will turn around for him

 

Right now it's actually slightly lower than the last two years but within .6%, and 2 ish % higher than his career average. But his walk rate is he lowest of his career.

[KSaw]

Damn, Kirk, you hate Boni haha.

 

I wouldn't say that I hate him. I'd say that I don't have any use for him as an infielder. And if you're going to be that bad as a fielder, you'd better hit like crazy!

[CHRIS]

The problem is that several NL clubs are interested in him. Atlanta, Philadelphia, Cincinnati and Pittsburgh have shown interest. Well if none of the teams are ready to trade, AA has to wait it out.

 

Why does he have to wait it out? To get a meaningless prospect from an NL team? I don't think this team has the luxury of putting out a lesser team for the chance of making an underwhelming deal.

[KSaw]

Why does he have to wait it out? To get a meaningless prospect from an NL team? I don't think this team has the luxury of putting out a lesser team for the chance of making an underwhelming deal.

 

He's not looking to get a prospect. He's looking for veteran players.

[Olerud363]

I read through this thread and I have to say I do not disagree with you but, I feel you are missing the point. The Jays season doesn't rely on which one of Kawasaki or Bonifacio gets 150 ABs in a bench role the rest of the way. It relies on Bautista, Reyes, Dickey, Johnson, Lawrie, Buehrle, Morrow, Janssen and Edwin, the core players that AA has put in place and staked his reputation on. These are the guys that are going to take us to the playoffs and if they play well the team should be in striking distance in it's first playoff appearance since '93.

 

That is my point though. The 1998 and 1999 teams had a tonne of talent that performed well. In the end they were an mid 80s win team missing the playoffs by a few games. In retrospect one could point out a few little moves that made the difference.

 

There are several key players as you mentions. But AA doesn't really have control (as of now) over wether Dickey's back holds out and he gets movement on the knuckleball, or wether Lawrie comes back healthy and plays well.

 

What he can control are the various little roster moves the rest of the way. That is why I compared Cruz and Kawasaki. The Cruz demotion cost the Jays a win or two. The Kawasaki demotion might too (based on Boni and Kawasaki's present production).

 

So that is why AA now has to win big. If he loses biig he's going to be ripped apart. If he loses small every little move will be nitpicked (as it was for Ash).

[Olerud363]

By the logic displayed in bold, you would have got rid of EE, Lind, Esmil, etc. by now. We all would have, but if they Jays org wasnt focusing on tools, then we would not have the 4 and 5 hitters in our lineup today. As a bench player you need tools in order to provide something significant to replace a player in the starting lineup. Ex. Boni can come in and run and steal a base. Kawasaki just does everything OK, no where does he excel over players in any tool category, so why keep a player on the bench who isn't going to be an upgrade in any area late in the game?

And why are you worrying about him changing his approach in the minors? He's 31

 

Actually AA allready demoted both Lind and EE and any team could of had them.

 

These situations were different. There was really no Mr. X who was playing better then Lind/EE at the time but got the demotion instead.

[Olerud363]

So basically what you are saying is they have multiple ways to add and re-tool this team in the off-season. You've lost faith with AA which is fine but, that doesn't mean the Jays can't get better. JPA has been bad enough that he may be replaced, there is a glaring hole at 2B that can be addressed, players are coming back from injury, Lawrie may take a step forward, Stroman will be one year closer to MLB ready and there is a bevy of young controllable BP pieces that can be moved. It has been a very difficult season but, it's not all doom and gloom in T.O.

 

This wasn't meant to be a doom and gloom post. My main point was AA has now put himself in a place to be ripped apart if the Jays win 87 and miss the playoffs.

 

The reason is that he's now actively decided to continue to support Boni. You cannot have a player play full time and put up a .230 on base average. At some point you have to give up on the player. What point is that??

 

With the roster crunch AA had the perfect opportunity to cut bait on Boni... or go to a 7-man bullpen and make Boni a bench player. He chose not too at this point. Maybe the choice will work out. But if it doesn't this will be remembered as a day where the Jays lost a couple of wins.

[CHRIS]

He's not looking to get a prospect. He's looking for veteran players.

 

So you think AA is holding out on Boni so he can acquire a veteran player in case one of four teams in the NL might become sellers? This seems totally illogical to me. Illogical to make our team weaker for the chance of something happening; illogical that Boni holds enough value for a team (other than the Jays I guess) to insist that he's part of a deal.

 

If a team is selling veterans, they're likely to be looking at a better rebuild candidate than a 28 year old defensive liability who has had one non-terrible offensive season in his career.

[DuckDuckGose]

That is my point though. The 1998 and 1999 teams had a tonne of talent that performed well. In the end they were an mid 80s win team missing the playoffs by a few games. In retrospect one could point out a few little moves that made the difference.

 

There are several key players as you mentions. But AA doesn't really have control (as of now) over wether Dickey's back holds out and he gets movement on the knuckleball, or wether Lawrie comes back healthy and plays well.

 

What he can control are the various little roster moves the rest of the way. That is why I compared Cruz and Kawasaki. The Cruz demotion cost the Jays a win or two. The Kawasaki demotion might too (based on Boni and Kawasaki's present production).

 

So that is why AA now has to win big. If he loses biig he's going to be ripped apart. If he loses small every little move will be nitpicked (as it was for Ash).

 

I do agree that it is win the one game play-in/division or bust this season for AA. I still think '98/'99 were entirely different scenarios.

 

Jose Cruz would have actually helped the team win and was a good player. Kawasaki was going to ride the pine and even if he was a full time starter probably wouldn't produce a full win of value over whichever combination of Izturis/Bonifacio/DeRosa at 2B.

 

If the Jays lose out by a couple games I think most fans will point to the starting rotation and not the MIF. Yes, AA should have gotten a better 2B if he expected to compete this year. However, the largest issue this season has been the lack of SP depth and under-performance of some key guys. Obviously AA will be lambasted from fans if JJ/Dickey put up poor seasons. Plus the lack of depth has been a common theme through-out AA's tenure and one that cannot carry-on in to the future.

[KSaw]

So you think AA is holding out on Boni so he can acquire a veteran player in case one of four teams in the NL might become sellers? This seems totally illogical to me. Illogical to make our team weaker for the chance of something happening; illogical that Boni holds enough value for a team (other than the Jays I guess) to insist that he's part of a deal.

 

If a team is selling veterans, they're likely to be looking at a better rebuild candidate than a 28 year old defensive liability who has had one non-terrible offensive season in his career.

 

I think that the Phillies have an inexplicable hard on for Bonifacio and that he would be important in a trade being that Philadelphia is likely going to lose both Utley and Young.

[dineke]

Bonifacio for Lee. Easy.