Eric Wedge on Ackley demote "sabermetric wizards are to blame"

[connorp]

It would still be interesting to see if there was any merit to his theories. Obviously I doubt he looked at any data to reach his conclusions but for the sake of argument it would interesting to see.

 

Like how many strikes he watched compared to say what the average player watches go by.. as well as first pitch strikes. Maybe he was looking at too many and getting behind in counts, leaving the team frustrated..

 

I think obviously you can have a balance between respecting getting on base and also being aggressive at the same time. You see your pitch, you attack.. bad pitch, don't swing.. I mean its always what my son's travel teams have preached since 8yo and really it's pre-K generic logic that can apply all the way through.

[CHRIS]

What about AA?

 

I'm not trying to claim that AA is honest or not, just not sold on your statement that JPR was "very honest".

[Angrioter]

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/jon-heyman/22321401/sorry-wedge-sabermetrics-not-behind-ackley-slump-he-lost-his-way

[Angrioter]

Eric Wedge sat simmering in a Safeco Field conference room as his bosses laid into him.

 

It was 14 months ago, two days after the 2012 season, and Mariners president Chuck Armstrong unleashed what Wedge calls “a ferocious, venom-filled tirade” about the team, coaches and players. Armstrong told him the club “sickened” him and was “disgusting” and “disturbing,” while Mariners CEO Howard Lincoln agreed and added choice barbs of his own.

 

Wedge said general manager Jack Zduriencik had assured him earlier that the duo was pleased with the 75-87 team, winners of eight more games than in 2011 and 14 more than in 2010.

 

Now, he felt blindsided and let down by Zduriencik. He waited until Lincoln was done, then, unable to hold back, let him and Armstrong know how he felt.

 

“It got real heated,” Wedge said. “I started fighting back with Chuck and Howard and it got loud.”

 

Wedge chided them for their dugout meddling, poor leadership and lack of faith in struggling young players. He argued the Mariners had revamped their foundation and won more despite a roster full of rookies, millions in payroll cuts and an upper management that never fully bought into its own rebuilding plan.

 

He says he told them: “All I’ve done is exactly what I said I was going to do and all you’ve done is the exact opposite.”

 

Things got so heated, Lincoln walked out.

 

“I think,” Wedge said, “that was the beginning of the end.”

 

Just more than a year later, the Mariners have lost another 91 games and hired Lloyd McClendon as Zduriencik’s third manager, the team’s seventh since 2007. They are trying — rather desperately, some have suggested — to counter a wave of negative public perception after years of losing, turnover, turmoil and reluctance to raise their payroll beyond the $100 million mark of previous seasons.

 

The team now has reportedly opened its pocketbook for a 10-year, $240 million deal with free-agent second baseman Robinson Cano and heads to the annual baseball winter meetings in Orlando this week hoping for additional deals to make them relevant again.

 

But for Wedge and others no longer with the team, the dramatic financial splash comes too late. It also doesn’t change problems at the very top of the organization — problems they say got the team to this point in the first place.

 

Wedge left at season’s end, fleeing what he describes as “total dysfunction and a lack of leadership.”

 

The sentiment is echoed by current and past Mariners baseball operations employees beyond Wedge, who has remained silent since leaving and only reluctantly agreed to talk. More than two dozen people who spoke to The Times say any manager — and the players under him — will fall short of success without a halt to ongoing interference from Lincoln and whomever succeeds Armstrong, who will retire Jan. 31.

 

The sources also raised serious doubts about the GM tasked with reversing years of futility in one offseason, saying Zduriencik has kept his job only because Lincoln and Armstrong won’t admit another critical hiring mistake. The sources question Zduriencik’s credentials to properly build a roster, saying he sold Lincoln and Armstrong on hiring him five years ago with a job application package prepared not by him, but by recently dismissed Mariners special assistant Tony Blengino.

 

Lincoln, Armstrong and Zduriencik were invited to respond to these accusations. Armstrong declined. Lincoln and Zduriencik issued general responses.

 

“Eric has mischaracterized much of what occurred over the past three baseball seasons,” Lincoln said of Wedge. “I am not going to try to recite private conversations from the past.”

 

Zduriencik declined to address specifics raised by Wedge and former team officials.

 

“I am aware of some of the comments of former members of our baseball operations group, and I find them unjust, misleading and one-sided,” Zduriencik said. “I don’t believe the airing of ‘dirty laundry’ should take place in the public arena, so I am not going to talk about internal meetings, daily conversations and personnel decisions.”

 

Wedge is a tough guy

[Dr. Dinger]

The article gives a withering depiction of Zduriencik, who Blengino says "never has understood one iota about statistical analysis." It's concerning criticism for the GM, who was hired in 2008 with a reputation for being able to incorporate both scouting- and statistics-based analysis. According to the article, most of the job application Zduriencik submitted to the Mariners in 2008 was actually written by Blengino, who worked with Zduriencik for the Brewers. "Jack portrayed himself as a scouting/stats hybrid because that’s what he needed to get the job," Blengino commented.

 

In an episode that's perhaps representative of the criticisms in the article, Blengino recounts a presentation he gave to baseball operations officials in 2012 on how the Mariners could make use of computerized hitting data. Sitting in on the presentation, Zduriencik "nitpicked about font sizes and column widths," according to Blengino. "He did what he always does and made fun of something he couldn’t understand."

 

Sounds like a great org.

[Dr. Dinger]

Actually that sorta sounds like Anthopoulos.

[TheHurl]

Actually that sorta sounds like Anthopoulos.

 

It does kind of mirror what is happening in Toronto with Farrell being an Anti-Wedge being a little more politically correct with his comments about the org.

[Angrioter]

nickcafardo

Expect former Indians and Mariners manager Eric Wedge to join ESPN as an analyst.

[Angrioter]

John Gibbons: "There are people out in the baseball world that don’t think RBIs are important. Well (1-for-17 with RISP) … those are RBIs."

[DuckDuckGose]

John Gibbons: "There are people out in the baseball world that don’t think RBIs are important. Well (1-for-17 with RISP) … those are RBIs."

 

He has a point.

[DuckDuckGose]

He does, as long as you understand what conversation is being had, and the point being made.

 

Regardless, on this board, this won't go well. Even mentioning the term "RBI" is like saying Jimmy has cooties whilst on the playground. Running, screaming and taunting is sure to ensue.

 

Well if anyone disagrees they should go watch yesterday's game and they'll understand pretty quickly.

[Angrioter]

Wedge… intimated that Ackley might have been too concerned with pitch selectivity and high on-base percentage, leading to a one-liner that hit on one of baseball’s most intriguing ongoing philosophical battles.

 

“It’s the new generation. It’s all this sabermetrics stuff, for lack of a better term, you know what I mean?” Wedge said. “People who haven’t played since they were 9 years old think they have it figured out. It gets in these kids’ heads.”

 

http://mlb.si.com/2013/05/28/dustin-ackley-eric-wedge-sabermetrics-mariners/

 

lol

 

 

 

Jays new manager?

[Olerud363]

Jays new manager?

 

Jays got Ryan Goins to hit moneyball way for a couple of months.. not sure if this is repeatable or not... If Jays know how to get Ryan Goins to take some pitches that is an amazing thing if it can be repeated.

[Grant77]

Jays new manager?

 

Please no. Keep Gibbons or get someone progressive like Alomar Jr.

[fatcowxlive]

Please no. Keep Gibbons or get someone progressive like Alomar Jr.

 

He's going to get let go. I heard that his 2017 year becomes guaranteed after January 1st. No one expected Gibbons to even coach the team at the time, I remember when he was announced everyone was blown away. JP Riccardi, AA and LaCava all had the same opinion on Gibbons as a solid manager with great handling of the BP, and that was reiterated in AA's last presser, he's really JPR/AA's guy

[KingKat]

The Wedge hire is purely gratuitous speculation at this point. Hardly worth discussing.

[Olerud363]

Please no. Keep Gibbons or get someone progressive like Alomar Jr.

 

Absolutely agree... the complaints about Gibbons are totally overblown.

[Grant77]

Absolutely agree... the complaints about Gibbons are totally overblown.

 

I also think there needs to be some continuity. This guy led the team to a division title and there were basically no legitimate concerns, so there's no urgent need to address the managerial position. If he doesn't repeat the same success next year, then the new GM can look to find his own guy.

[KingKat]

I also think there needs to be some continuity. This guy led the team to a division title and there were basically no legitimate concerns, so there's no urgent need to address the managerial position. If he doesn't repeat the same success next year, then the new GM can look to find his own guy.

 

Although I do think there are legitimate concerns with Gibbons, I do agree with this approach. I think it would be good for the players to keep the same guy (unless he's unpopular with them in which case it won't make a difference to them).

[Grant77]

Although I do think there are legitimate concerns with Gibbons, I do agree with this approach. I think it would be good for the players to keep the same guy (unless he's unpopular with them in which case it won't make a difference to them).

 

By legitimate I just mean that he's seemingly liked by the players, has had success, and is above average when it comes to filling out the lineup card and using the bullpen.

 

Sure there are legit gripes with individual decisions, but there's certainly no glaring reason that he has to be let go right this minute, as you kind of said.