Roster Move Tonight?

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Jenkins did a fine job the other day but I can't see that lasting much longer.

 

Velocity + stuff combo is turrible. Just turrible.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

My god our f***ing first rounders over the past few years have been awful. Deck McGuire? Chad Jenkins? The f***ing Chinless wonder?

 

How terrible can one team's scouting system be?

[Pete_7]

My god our f***ing first rounders over the past few years have been awful. Deck McGuire? Chad Jenkins? The f***ing Chinless wonder?

 

How terrible can one team's scouting system be?

 

I think Stroman is gonna be good

[The_DH]

How about adding Kevin Ahrens and David Cooper as first rounders.

[o2cui2i]

My god our f***ing first rounders over the past few years have been awful. Deck McGuire? Chad Jenkins? The f***ing Chinless wonder?

 

How terrible can one team's scouting system be?

 

that's what happens when you prioritize ath-a-letes instead of ball players.

[Caper]

that's what happens when you prioritize ath-a-letes instead of ball players.

 

Like David Cooper?

[P2F]

How about adding Kevin Ahrens and David Cooper as first rounders.

 

The Chinless Wonder is David Cooper, as mentioned above.

 

However, why stop there?

 

Let's add Gabe Gross, Russ Adams, Ricky Romero (?), and David Purcey to that list. Even The Ceeb.

 

If all of these guys don't scream futility, I don't know what does.

[magits]

It's exceedingly difficult to "hit" on prospects, even first rounders unless you are getting top 5 picks every year (aka tampa bay, washington).

[o2cui2i]

No, these two are from before the all-upside approach. Bad scouting is more to blame for McGuire and Jenkins than approach, McGuire and Jenkins are ball players.

 

then what the hell is the system doing to screw up their talent??? it's been a while since they developed a top prospect.

[P2F]

It's exceedingly difficult to "hit" on prospects, even first rounders unless you are getting top 5 picks every year (aka tampa bay, washington).

 

Absolutely, but it would be great to have a homegrown star, for once.

 

Hindsight is 20/20, but so many of those picks went against the grain, to boot. Passing on Tulo was just stupid, as was leaving a guy like Chris Sale on the board.

[bendera3]

It's exceedingly difficult to "hit" on prospects, even first rounders unless you are getting top 5 picks every year (aka tampa bay, washington).

 

True. But after quick glancing at our first round picks for the past two decades the only ones that stick out to me are Wells, Hill, Halladay and Carpenter. Obviously the picks in the past few years still need time to develop but we really haven't hit on a first round pick in 10 years. Unless of course you think JP is a top 10 catcher

[o2cui2i]

It's exceedingly difficult to "hit" on prospects, even first rounders unless you are getting top 5 picks every year (aka tampa bay, washington).

 

the Tampa building model is based on being one of the absolute worst teams in baseball for years. Jays are never bad enough to get the top picks.

 

I think they need to have a mix of HS and college drafts. College guys are so much more developed and take less work to get major league ready. HS kids are always a huge gamble. College kids are maybe 2+ years and HS kids can be 5 years of guessing. not many 6'2," 160lbs, 17 yr old kids, who throws 80mph, develop into MLB players. it's a crap shoot. but if you take as college guy who's throwing 90+ and facing quality hitters, you have a much better chance.... not sure why teams wet themselves over prospects who are 6 years from MAYBE being useful.

[o2cui2i]

True. But after quick glancing at our first round picks for the past two decades the only ones that stick out to me are Wells, Hill, Halladay and Carpenter. Obviously the picks in the past few years still need time to develop but we really haven't hit on a first round pick in 10 years. Unless of course you think JP is a top 10 catcher

 

AA still looking at body type and not stats.

[oakville69]

I hope they give Jenkins another couple of starts rather than Ortiz. There is nothing to lose since the teams record isn't all that great anyways. See what you have in Jenkins. Maybe he pitches like Litsch did in 2008 for the rest of the way, which would definitely be welcoming to this rotation.

 

 

Agreed. Let Jenkins stay here for a few more starts. He pitched well yesterday.

[KSaw]

I randomly picked the 2006 draft. Funny that's the year I chose. Toronto drafted Travis Snider 14th. Brad Lincoln (4th), Brandon Morrow (5th), Jeremy Jeffress (16th) and Kyle Drabek (18th) are all Jays.

[HASHTAGYOLOSWAG]

the Tampa building model is based on being one of the absolute worst teams in baseball for years. Jays are never bad enough to get the top picks.

 

I think they need to have a mix of HS and college drafts. College guys are so much more developed and take less work to get major league ready. HS kids are always a huge gamble. College kids are maybe 2+ years and HS kids can be 5 years of guessing. not many 6'2," 160lbs, 17 yr old kids, who throws 80mph, develop into MLB players. it's a crap shoot. but if you take as college guy who's throwing 90+ and facing quality hitters, you have a much better chance.... not sure why teams wet themselves over prospects who are 6 years from MAYBE being useful.

 

Because there is more upside with high schoolers. There is almost no chance that someone under the college/university spotlight who is unknown turns into a superstar. Almost every college player is projectable and already discovered.

You can get your Mike Trouts with late first round high school picks. I can guarantee you if a Mike Trout type player was in college you'd need the 1st pick.

[Caper]

 

I think they need to have a mix of HS and college drafts.\

 

They did that last year. DJ Davis (HS, raw) then Marcus Stroman (college, polished)

[G-Snarls]

Anyone think they should increase the minimum age for draft eligibility???

[Caper]

AA still looking at body type and not stats.

 

Really? What do you think AA liked most about Marcus Stroman's body... all 5'9" of it.

[Caper]

Anyone think they should increase the minimum age for draft eligibility???

 

Why?

[G-Snarls]

Why?

 

To make it easier for teams to separate who deserves to be drafted from those who don't?

 

I don't know enough about it to really have a strong opinion. Just asking the question out of interest.

Edited May 14, 2013 by G-Snarls

[John_Havok]

To make it easier for teams to separate who deserves to be drafted from those who don't?

 

I don't know enough about it to really have a strong opinion. Just asking the question out of interest.

 

The NCAA would love that though the low minors of baseball would really suffer

Edited May 14, 2013 by G-Snarls

[Caper]

To make it easier for teams to separate who deserves to be drafted from those who don't?

 

I don't know enough about it to really have a strong opinion. Just asking the question out of interest.

 

 

Ok you are right. I would do exactly that. I just think it would take away from the scouting aspect of baseball... which I love.

Edited May 14, 2013 by G-Snarls

[John_Havok]

I don't think you can really criticize our recent first-rounders too much, there are Major Leaguers in there. We're not the Astros (no good MLers since Brad Lidge in 1998), Rockies (only Rex Brothers since Tulo in 2005), Phillies (only TDA/Drabek since Hamels in 2002), Padres (only Luebke and a couple middle relievers since Derrek Lee in 1993), and others. There are some teams who've literally gone a generation without generating a good player.

 

Arencibia, Cecil, Hill, Romero, Rios in a decade is middle of the pack.

 

And Sanchez, Syndergaard, Stroman, Smith Jr., Nolin, and others have looked good. The problem has been developing the hit tool or scouting players who will develop a ML hit tool. Which is a problem, but not a total "all our scouting/dev is terrible" situation.

 

Agreed that it's not all on the drafting philosophy. The player development hasn't been there either with regards to the hit tool, basic base running, basic fundamentals like hitting the cutoff man, when to throw home or hen to throw to 2nd to keep the the guy at first, how to bunt...

[TheHurl]

Anyone think they should increase the minimum age for draft eligibility???

 

I don't think there is one now is there? The rule just states graduated from high school. Harper got his GED and went to some junior college to get eligible a year early. If they go to an international draft it's going to be interesting as I think they will have to make 17 the age (which will finally even out the age at which international players reach their 5 years after signing).

[John_Havok]

I don't think there is one now is there? The rule just states graduated from high school. Harper got his GED and went to some junior college to get eligible a year early. If they go to an international draft it's going to be interesting as I think they will have to make 17 the age (which will finally even out the age at which international players reach their 5 years after signing).

 

You had a chance to mull that trade offer in FC?

[o2cui2i]

Because there is more upside with high schoolers. There is almost no chance that someone under the college/university spotlight who is unknown turns into a superstar. Almost every college player is projectable and already discovered.

You can get your Mike Trouts with late first round high school picks. I can guarantee you if a Mike Trout type player was in college you'd need the 1st pick.

 

drafting high upside HS kids doesn't really help if the org cant get them to the bigs. something is flawed in the jays farm system.

[TheHurl]

You had a chance to mull that trade offer in FC?

 

chances are I saw it and ignored. However I don't remember a deal from you. What did you use to propose it?

[Caper]

drafting high upside HS kids doesn't really help if the org cant get them to the bigs. something is flawed in the jays farm system.

 

Why? Cant it be just bad luck?

[John_Havok]

chances are I saw it and ignored. However I don't remember a deal from you. What did you use to propose it?

 

Just yahoo. it should tell you there's a trade proposed when you go to set your lineup. I wrote the details in the note for opposing owner