wk680

It was a strange game. The Jays got 11 hits and yet only ONE XBH (Carrera's RBI double). On the flip side the Orioles looked more like the slugging team with 4 doubles and a HR among their 9 hit total. Surprisingly low strike out totals especially for an 11 inning game (Jays 8, O's 5).

No it's not about whether you are more or less of a fan, but the point is there are intangibles that don't show up on the stats sheet. This guy comes to play. He may not be such a great player but he works hard and that can also rub off on teammates. It's why the best team on paper doesn't always win - you need guys that can help team chemistry. I just heard them say on MLB Network that Rays players were upset that Forsythe was traded because they really like him as a teammate. In contrast you have a guy like BJ Upton who too often seems like he is just going through the motions and that doesn't play so well with the clubhouse. ETA: I DO NOT really advocate for Zeke as a regular. I much prefer if they had a good player in front of him as everyday LFer (not sold on Pagan but may be the best option currently) and Zeke as 4th OFer. Doesn't mean you can't cheer the guy on when he does play. Maybe you need to lighten up a bit....?

Zeke is a scrappy little player and he may not be much of a talent, but he is a gamer. He's the underdog you can't help but cheer for, unless you are just a number cruncher.

Yes but is Morales and Pearce > Edwin and Saunders ? Personally I think yes, assuming Pearce can stay healthy. I am still not convinced Saunders' bad knee is going to hold up much longer, but I guess that is partly why nobody was willing to give him more than 1 yr guaranteed.

Yes on the surface this seems like a less concerning issue than an arm issue. But I seem to recall Jordan Zimmerman missing some time last season with a neck muscle issue and being awful upon his return (after having had a great start to the season). Osuna may also have other issues besides the neck, but that is just the one they are actually reporting. So we'll just need to cross our fingers.

Actually the best case scenario is that Smoak flourishes. The concern about Pearce being able to stay off the DL should not be discounted. But I agree that the likely scenario is that Smoak is given a 6-8 week chance to prove himself, fails, and is sent packing (which I would assume is an outright assignment to AAA), with Pearce then playing 1B regularly (or sharing with Morales?). No point in just cutting Smoak completely and paying him for nothing, unless there are attitude/behavior issues as suspected with Upton. It would be nice if he would be foolish enough to refuse the assignment and thus forgo the remainder of his contract (assuming he has enough service time to be able to make that choice), but allowing that to occur would set his agent up for the worst case of professional malfeasance in sports history. It is a bit of a hodgepodge at this point between 1B and LF. Maybe they are thinking of giving LF to Pearce and 1B to Smoak -semi-full time and Zeke subs in for Pearce and Bautista 1 game each per week? So on a game against LHP, Bautista/Pearce gets day off from RF/LF and plays DH or 1B with Zeke in LF/RF and Smoak on bench? As far a Zeke reverse splits - yeah it keeps showing up if you look at the different seasons but such small numbers of PA, especially against lefties. Should see what his minor league splits look like. Another possibility is giving Barney starts in LF (with Pearce moving to 1st) against lefties. Of course all this changes once you have 1 or more regulars go down to injury.

Any legendary managers that come to mind? One that I can think of with a Canadian connection is Bobby Cox. Cito led the Jays to back to back championships, but I don't think he comes close to 'legendary' status. Anyway, it may get even harder to recruit players for the next WBC after this latest awful performance (outscored 21 to 3 in 3 games!)

Undoubtedly, there are numerous other excellent surgeons that will fill the gap. In fact, I would guess a lot of the surgeries done by Andrews' practice are already being done by others working under the old master's tutelage. And many of them will have gone on to start their own successful practices. As for Price, who knows what comes out of this. He may be lucky and get away without surgery. But other than Tanaka, there don't seem like any other pitchers who have avoided surgery on elbow ligament injuries (assuming that is the issue). Sure will be some lost sleep in Red Sox nation tonight. I would rather see him comes through this and the Jays beat them out this season anyway......

It's really surprising, considering the big money guys like Cecil, Dunn, and Logan got. Melancon got 15M a year for 4 years. Betances has 8.5 fWAR over 3 seasons!, so $5M still seems a huge bargain even if it is his first year of Arb. Yankees cutting off their nose to spite their face.

I noticed in his interview the other day that Pete Walker described Biagini as having a starter's build and a starter's mentality. So that was a hint about where the Jays are leaning with him. The only concern is if he struggles as a starter in the minors, will he be able to regroup mentally and successfully return to the reliever role. Most likely yes, but there is the woeful tale of Daniel Bard whose failed attempt at switching to starting seemed to trigger his complete collapse.

Yes and Turner just turned 32, which is what Donaldson will be heading into 2018. Seeing as Turner got 4/64 ($16M per), a Donaldson contract of 5/150 would seem sufficiently fair. ETA: A 6/180 contract might be as far as I see being reasonable. What about 5/170 (structured 30,30,35,35,40), then he still has age 37 and beyond for a new contract.

While I understand the point you are making, the 70% to which you refer also includes times where they may hit the ball well but just unlucky to be hit right at a defender or someone makes a good defensive play to take away a hit. Thus the emergence of advanced stats on % of balls in play with hard contact, barreled balls, etc. I am in favor of using automation to help with improving the accuracy in ball/strike calling. But the adoption of such a system won't be without it's downside/pitfalls. For example how will the system account for players of differing stature? Or will it just submit Altuve and Aaron Judge, for example, to the same generic strike zone?

8 man pen seems like a highly unlikely scenario. With only 25 roster spots, 8 relievers (13 pitchers), leaves you only 3 spots on the bench. Those spots would be a 4th outfielder, backup infielder (Barney) and backup catcher. Oh yes, this would make the majority of this board absolutely giddy that Smoak would be outrighted to AAA! Then again, an injury in spring training could clear the path for him to remain even in this unlikely 8 man pen scenario:( Overall, it seems unlikely to be anything but 7 in the pen with 2 lefties. That likely sets up a situation where either Loup makes it or is forced to compete for a spot with others, including Oberholtzer, House, Dermody and Girodo. Maybe there is an outside chance that one of Oberholtzer or House (both with MLB starter experience) could be a lefty swingman out of the pen? How do you go about determining who has options remaining? I tried unsuccessfully to find a source online for this info.

Yes excellent point about the player's preference. We tend to automatically assume that a young pitcher will prefer a chance to be an MLB starter. BUT we have already seen one case with Osuna where he appears to prefer the reliever role. Although he may not if he is not the closer.

Fair enough. But they were just prospects like all the others traded away that off-season, and only 1 of all the multitudes has so far reached the heights of All-Star caliber. Of the others maybe only two (Hech and DeSclafani) are solid regulars. But I will concede the Dickey trade was a bridge too far in that 2012-2013 off-season push When you think about the Jays' total lack of success in 2013 and 2014 following that big push, it is quite astounding that Anthopoulus was given another chance in 2015.

Sounds good. I suggest Ross Atkins helps him out with that

Dickey, for whom I am not trying to be a special pleader (nor for AA), had 3 solid seasons with the Mets from 2010-2012 with FIP of 3.75, 3.95. 3.27, respectively. Had he repeated roughly along the average of those 3 seasons for a couple more years, I suspect the Jays would have been satisfied. He underperformed with FIP of 4.23 and 4.14 in 2013 and 2014 respectively but at least did eat up innings. As far as the moves to go all in for 2013 versus a rebuild around their own prospects: who other than Syndergaard has gone on to amount to much? Henderson Alvarez was producing nicely, but then he flamed out.

What did you have in mind? I suspect Donaldson may also have compliance issues.

So with your awesome talent evaluation skills and wisdom, how is it none of you are running an MLB front office!?

Thanks for the info. I was not following this board until recently so obviously don't know the backstory. BUT like I posted before, life goes on and you need to cheer for the guys that are on your team, not pine away over the prospects that got away. ETA: and as discussed above, at least we have Sanchez (knock on wood for continued success), and being born on the July 1st, he is like an honorary Canadian. Yeah I know what many of you are thinking, piss off with the nationalism nonsense.

Right, and you of course are the number 1 butt-hurt Jays fan over that deal, seeing as how you had that crystal ball telling you Syndergaard, who was only 20 years old and had not pitched an inning above A ball at the time, was a lock to become a dominant MLBer. Get over it and look into getting a new avatar pic while you are at it. Or maybe consider becoming a Mets fan.......

It's easy to look back in hindsight and bash Anthopoulus over that Dickey trade all you want, and by extension be a Dickey hater. BUT at the time Syndergaard was just a young prospect with no guarantee of being a major leaguer, let alone a top line starter. People need to get over it, but I suspect the only way some Jays fans will ever do so is if the Jays own Syndergaard in the World Series. Hey maybe 2017 will be the year it happens.....

Yes this has been my thinking as well. It's early but both look primed to have good careers moving forward. And the Jays did get 4 decent years out of Dickey (824 ip, 6.4 fWAR). When I think of Sanchez, three things come to mind (other than being the guy they kept over Syndergaard): born on July 1st (what a story it would be if he were to pitch a no hitter on his birthday!); excellent performance in game 162 in 2016 against Price; 3 game suspension for hitting the Royals player in Aug 2015 game after they had been throwing at our guys all game and hit Tulo the prior half inning.

LOL. The same season as that monologue was given, his Jets squeaked into the playoffs, winning the division on a tie-breaker with a mediocre 9-7 record. They went on to humiliate my Colts 41-0 in the first playoff game but lost 30 to 10 in the next round.

I assume you are talking about EE's 2016 WAR versus what Morales is projected to contribute in 2017. In that case it is a difference between 3.9 fWAR (EE 2016) and 0.8-0.9 fWAR (Morales 2017 projections); so about 3 fWAR less. On the other hand, if you compare 2017 projections for EE (2.1-2.14) and Morales (0.8-0.9), the difference is much smaller. It will be very interesting to see how they both perform. Lots of pressure on both of them. As for the pitching, I agree there is the potential for better in both rotation and bullpen. It was a bad year in 2016 for Cecil with the early struggles and mid-season DL stint. Also, surprised the name of Storen has not been mentioned yet in this thread. The first half bullpen was a mess, so we can hope for better and overall a better record in close games.