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Varsho has only played about 2 full MLB seasons so it's far from a given what kind of value he will provide moving forward. Varsho could very well have a 5 win ceiling at his peak. The 3 WAR projection is largely based on him losing 75% of his defensive value. This seems a little unlikely to occur in a player about to play his age 26 season.

I don't think Pham is a great fit for this organization given the amount of value placed on character and Pham's various violence related issues.

The sky is always falling with this guy. I really don't remember the front office making any moves that this guy actually likes, it's always the same tired whine bitch whine routine. The team as constructed presently has made an upgrade to the bullpen with Swanson, has replaced Stripling with more of a sure thing in Bassit, has essentially replaced Teoscar with Varsho, and has replaced the collection of Zimmer/Bradley Jr./Tapia with Kiermaier. The outfield has gone from below average to potentially elite defensively, the starting rotation will likely receive more innings, the lineup has become more balanced and the bullpen has acquired another swing and miss reliever. It's entirely possible the lineup is going to score fewer runs, but this should be more than offset by the extra runs which are going to be saved defensively.

Yeah bringing in Varsho would have really reduced the amount of playing time that was available for Gurriel moving forward. I don't think Gurriel is quite as bad defensively as he's being made out to be in this discussion, however Kiermaier, Varsho and Springer are all leaps and bounds better defensively compared to Gurriel and are simply far more productive overall players. I do suspect some sort of lefty mashing corner outfielder may be of use to this roster as both Varsho and Kiermaier are likely to struggle against good quality left handed pitching.

People just seem to miss the fact that you aren't going to bring back a player with value like Varsho without paying a price that ultimately hurts a lot. It sucks to see Moreno go the other way as he's a potential future stud, but Varsho is really f***ing good right now. This is a dude who produced a 4.6 FWAR/4.9 BWAR season and has 4 more years of remaining control. Moreno was ultimately a luxury on this team. It seems like people were more on board with the idea of burning roster value by using Moreno as a super sub utility player vs trading Moreno to fill an area of obvious need. If the team actually had some young outfielders in the minor leagues a move like this wouldn't have been necessary but that's one area they haven't produced any reinforcements for the roster up to this point.

I figured there would be a trade of this sort that pretty much popped up out of the blue. Arizona and the Jays were just a perfect trade match given the excess catching on the Jays roster and excess young lefty outfielders on the Dbacks roster. I just didn't foresee Varsho being the player that the Jays ended up obtaining thinking that Thomas was more likely to be moved by Arizona.

This trade is a perfect example of how you need to give up something of value in order to receive something of value in return. I don't think it's a coincidence that this deal was consummated shortly after it was announced that Conforto signed with the Giants. I suspect that the Jays waited to see how that potential signing turned out before pulling the trigger on this deal. It's slightly puzzling that Gurriel was moved out in this deal as it kind of makes it necessary to find another corner outfielder to take his place unless the team plans to use Merrifield a lot in the outfield this in 2023. This move has to firmly move the team back below the CBT threshold, it remains to be seen if they plan on adding any more payroll at this point. If the choice was between moving a potential front of the rotation arm like Tiedemann in a Reynolds trade or moving out Moreno in return for Varsho I would rather Moreno be moved out as the team will still have a stout catching tandem for at least the next few seasons.

Then what point are you and Carlos even trying to make? The two of you keep pivoting to talk of lax clubhouse discipline for some reason when I don't think we've ever heard of any issues of this sort with this team. Then the discussion has pivoted to where it's been suggested that the team isn't focused/preparing properly because they appear too happy on the bench.

I really don't care that much one way or another what the team does in the clubhouse behind closed doors. That's ultimately up to the players, team management and coaching staff to decide what goes on in the clubhouse. If they decide that cracking a beer, dancing etc. after a loss is a problem, then they won't allow it to occur.

I just don't equate what a player does on the bench with what they do on the field of play. I fail to see how a player acting silly on the bench means that he is going to lack in effort on the field or end up day dream during play. Some players are simply more prone to making mistakes on the field than others players are. This ultimately isn't a one size fits all scenario. George Springer clowns around on the bench just as much as anyone else on the team, yet he doesn't make a lot of mental errors while on the field. Bo Bichette is one of the more intense/serious looking guys on the Jays bench, yet despite this he makes a ton of errors on easy plays. Maybe he actually needs to relax a little more and dial down the intensity a bit as that may allow him to make the routine plays more frequently. Conversely Vlad is one of the biggest "offenders" when it comes to having fun on the bench, and at the same time he is overaggressive on the bases or stands at home plate and occasionally watches a fly ball clank off of the wall. Are you suggesting that Vlad will make better decisions on the bases if he acts more serious on the bench? A baseball team is made up of a ton of different personalities and as such different players are going to internalize competition differently. Team management has been very careful to cultivate a very close team culture, and part of this entails encouraging players to be themselves. The manager has stated that he wants his team to have fun and stay loose to allow them to perform up to their capabilities. The team is made up of a variety of fun loving goofball types and conversely a collection of more serious types. In my view treating players like they are grade schoolers and forcing them to be uptight/"serious looking" to placate fans doesn't sound like something which would ultimately be beneficial.

Where in the f*** did I ever say it didn't matter what the team does after a loss? We don't even know what goes on in the Jays clubhouse in the first place aside from the occasional story about players meetings, Schneider bringing in a DJ before a game (better get Mattingly on that, can't have a manager allowing players to have fun in the clubhouse), post season celebrations etc. My longer post was specifically referencing players looking happy in the dugout during a game. You came up with an irrelevant point about players dancing in the clubhouse after a game that had nothing to do with the in game situation I was discussing. My point remains that people are making giant assumptions that since players have looked happy in the dugout while behind in the score that they don't care enough about losing.

These are some great discussion points you bring up on here, your poignant Savanah Bananas reference was a true microphone drop moment.

I really don't know what you are even trying to get at here. I'm still waiting to here what you are suggesting is going on in the clubhouse that is having such a negative effect on the field of play. The ball's in your court.

These are your words equating what goes on behind closed doors in the clubhouse with lack of focus and effort on the field. I can only guess what you even meant by an "anything goes clubhouse".

That reminds me of the fried chicken kerfuffle with the Red Sox years ago. Wasn't this one of the contributing factors to Terry Francona losing his job? It would be up to the team to decide whether that type of thing is appropriate or not. Ultimately what you or I think is completely irrelevant, much like it is with players appearing to be happy and having fun in the dugout during games.

Is it really an anything goes clubhouse? I seriously doubt the players are popping brewskies and snorting coke off of prostitutes or something of that sort. If the necessary preparation is happening away from game time, then I really don't see why it's worth expending any energy into policing what grown men do in the dugout. There have been goofy players doing silly stuff in the dugout as long as I can remember with a steady stream of pranks like gum on hats and the likes. It seriously fees like people are offended by people having fun and looking happy. I get it that as fans it's frustrating when your team is losing, but I can't wrap my brain around why fans think that players need to act like mopey goth girls when the team is losing, can't put on a home run jacket when the team is losing etc. There are already too many stupid f***ing unwritten rules in baseball that largely revolve around not being allowed to have fun/celebrate during a game, and I for one don't want a team to start worrying about implementing even more of them. Sorry guys, no home run jacket, we have an unwritten rule that you can only wear it if a home run puts you ahead. Sorry guys, no more Spanish speaking players sitting together at the end of the bench, that's also against the unwritten rules because you guys looking too happy offends people. Most of this criticism that gets put forth towards players celebrating and having fun really seems to stem from people who need to loosen the f*** up. For what it's worth the worst offender when it came to lack of focus/effort on the field was traded to the Mariners. There's still a few other issues to be resolved like watching potential home runs bounce off of the wall and the likes, but for the most part this team tends to put in a solid effort on the field.

Everything I've heard from Schneider indicates that he is perfectly fine with his players being loose and having fun in the dugout. He has stated that lack of focus and effort on the field is what he takes issue with and intends to correct these types of issues if required. If the team wanted a seismic culture shift/hard-ass manager they would have made this type of managerial hiring in the first place.

Mattingly has already stated that he's not going to make any attempts to alter the team culture that's already in place.

The key to making cheap beer far more palatable is to drink it from a mug. There's something about allowing a cheaper beer to aerate a bit that improves the flavor to a great degree.

This is all well and good when both sides of the banter are willing participants, but there are times on here when this really doesn't appear to be the case. There is one poster who in particular who appears to receive far more latitude than the rest of the board members when it comes to making ugly personal attacks, and the board member who is on the receiving end of these has made it clear that he doesn't always appreciate these types of comments. I can see how this would be off putting to potential members when they consider joining the board.

The trade itself was fine, it's hard to believe this was actually an upgrade over Grichuk given how f***ing awful Tapia was. The dude is quite possibly the least instinctive outfielder I've had the misfortune of watching on a regular basis. For how long he's been playing the outfield there's really no excuse to be this godawful out there.

It's too bad the dude seems to have some serious issues simply getting along with others. I didn't know of the weird backstory as I just noticed he'd pop by some times with super useful roster charts and the like. The biggest fail on this guys part was when he tried to sell the board on the virtues of Raimel Tapia. We all know how that one turned out.

The dude is likely already in fantastic shape every year given the type of athleticism he typically displays.

That's offensive!

It appears as though the Dodgers are trying to reset the CBT, so it makes sense for them to opt for the cheaper option.