Brownie19

Agreed. I don't think it's wise to sign a FA with a QO attached to him. Target the 1 year guys.

It has a few more options.

I am...

Oh boy - I'm so happy my ignore list didn't transfer over. Please stop - it's sad.

This is a bit much for you man. No credit for landing Chapman? For signing Semien, for trading for and then re-signing Ray? No credit for a great 4 year stretch? I also have a hard time believing guys like Ryu signed "because of Vlad" I mean, sure - easy to suggest "any other GM could have done the same" - that's probably true. I honestly wonder if there's a massive difference between most GM's. I suspect it's less than most would expect. The very best and the very worst stand out, but the rest all blend in together. Atkins isn't in either of those extremes IMO.

I have a couple of ideas

I'm not surprised at all.

Will the new site have downvotes?

I agree - this FO has been more conservative, seemingly in an attempt for sustainable winning. The 2015 team wasn't much different than the 2021 team. The difference was AA knew EE/JB were near the end of their run and they went for it. Atkins had Vlad, Bo, Springer, etc. in, or entering their primes, with several big time prospects on the cusp. They chose to be less aggressive to keep the window open longer. In hindsight, most/all the prospects were busts, the core went rotten and they ought to have went all in back in 2021 - but I don't think anyone would have been stoked at a 1-2 year "go for it" window back in 2021...or at least they shouldn't have been. Is it that some people just HAVE to blame someone for everything? Can't just accept that sometimes things don't work out for a variety of reasons? I think that's it. It will be interesting to see if the O's find themselves in a similar situation - wondering if they should have sold the prospects and gone for it in 2023.

2016, 2021 and 2022 were all very close IMO. In 2016, we didn't have many prospects left to make the same "push" AA did in 2015. I think Atkins could be criticized for not going "all in" in 2021 and 2022. I believe this was an attempt to prolong the window and that fell flat when Vlad, Springer, Kirk, Manoah, etc. all died in 2023 and we were unable to develop the 3rd wave of talent. In hindsight, we ought to have just sold all our prospects in 2021 and went for the flag.

I guess we don't know for sure, but I thought Atkins just wasn't willing to go beyond (or well beyond) their own internal value evaluations. Not sure Rogers "blocked it".

AA only had JD for 1 season and yes, we got Martin that off-season. But nobody wanted our money in 2009 - 2014 - that's why he had to make the Miami trade (or at least that's the only reasonable explanation). The Jays passed the hat around in 2014 to try and sign Santana because AA spent the budget on the Miami players + Dickey instead. It would be no different than players doing it this year so we could go beyond the set budget amount.

One might claim that's because AA didn't create an environment that players wanted to play in But I agree that Beeston's nonsense held AA back to some extent. Then again, he had about twice as many top draft picks and thus had more talent available to trade too... The direct comparison should be taken with a grain of salt.

BTS is on a heater. Preach.

fify

Boy - where have we seen this before? lol

AA also had a massive advantage of the loophole in the CBA that allowed him to add WAY more top picks in the draft. He had A LOT more prospect value to work with. I summarized it recently, but don't remember the data unfortunately. Kudos to AA for exposing the loophole. Always loved AA and his creativity. We need an "AA-like" move right now. Find someone to take Springer and his contract off our hands like he did with Wells.

You're allowed to be disappointed, but they were 304 - 242, .557% from 2020-2023. That's the best 4 year stretch since 1990-1993 when they were 368 - 280, .568%. And the only thing this has to do with expanded playoffs is that more teams were "trying to win" in the 2020-2023 stretch. Although I do think the expanded playoffs have changed the approach for some teams. I'm not sure an argument about payroll changes much. AA had the 18th, 9th, 9th and 10th highest payrolls in 2012-2015. Atkins had the 19th, 12th, 11th and 9th from 2020-2023. From 1990-1993, the Jays had the 13th, 9th, 3rd and 1st. The difference is playoff success. The playoffs have been gut wrenching to witness, but some fans are underselling how good 2020-2023 was. The promise that the Vlad/Bo era had certainly contributes to it. I think we all thought we were in for something special and despite all the regular season success, they just kept ****ting the bed in the playoffs.

He may not, but will probably stay in the business - maybe as an assistant GM or something. He did have the best 4 year regular season run in the teams past 25 years. AA gave the Jays 1 good year which required an empting of the farm and he had no issues.

I find this such an interesting debate. Very few GMs keep their jobs long term and most hit a breaking point like Atkins is in now. Is it better to: a) Make a bunch of rash moves to "win now and try and save your job" or; Make good decisions based on the projection of the team. I mean, how many GMs go "all in" and actually win and keep their jobs? Most GMs that try this leave the team is a terrible long term position (ala AA in 2015)....if you're interviewing for a new position, how do you justify that approach? "Well sir, I had my back to the wall and was going to lose my job, so I gave out a bunch of bad contracts and made short sighted trades to try and save it". I cant see that being something a new employer wants to hear. Vs. a GM who correctly assessed the state of the team and makes moves to try and retool or rebuild. I would think that discussion with a future employer would be a lot easier to justify. Employers typically want people who do the right thing for the company, not the selfish thing for their own personal gain. If we somehow land a couple solid FAs (perhaps like SF did late last year), and the team over performs and Atkins empties the farm ala AA and we win a couple of playoff series this year - do we think he's going to get an extension?

Then just say that - it's a fair point. Suggesting Atkins doesn't realize people don't want our money is silly. Of course they know that. We seem to mimicking the Giants. Nobody's wanted their money for years. But they never quit offering it and they did break thru with those late signings last year and then added Adames this year. Atkins did create an environment that attracted free agents and landed some top players (arguably as well as anyone has since the early 90's) - it was just short lived unfortunately. This Vlad/Bo era had so much promise, but something went rotten.

It's sad unfortunately.

Let me guess - more strawman arguments? LOL. lOL. LOL

So they are stupid for trying to sign him?

Apparently his family was a big influence in the decision. They wanted to stay in Arizona.