Brownie19

AA also had a massive advantage of the loophole in the CBA that allowed him to add WAY more top picks in the draft. He had A LOT more prospect value to work with. I summarized it recently, but don't remember the data unfortunately. Kudos to AA for exposing the loophole. Always loved AA and his creativity. We need an "AA-like" move right now. Find someone to take Springer and his contract off our hands like he did with Wells.

You're allowed to be disappointed, but they were 304 - 242, .557% from 2020-2023. That's the best 4 year stretch since 1990-1993 when they were 368 - 280, .568%. And the only thing this has to do with expanded playoffs is that more teams were "trying to win" in the 2020-2023 stretch. Although I do think the expanded playoffs have changed the approach for some teams. I'm not sure an argument about payroll changes much. AA had the 18th, 9th, 9th and 10th highest payrolls in 2012-2015. Atkins had the 19th, 12th, 11th and 9th from 2020-2023. From 1990-1993, the Jays had the 13th, 9th, 3rd and 1st. The difference is playoff success. The playoffs have been gut wrenching to witness, but some fans are underselling how good 2020-2023 was. The promise that the Vlad/Bo era had certainly contributes to it. I think we all thought we were in for something special and despite all the regular season success, they just kept ****ting the bed in the playoffs.

He may not, but will probably stay in the business - maybe as an assistant GM or something. He did have the best 4 year regular season run in the teams past 25 years. AA gave the Jays 1 good year which required an empting of the farm and he had no issues.

I find this such an interesting debate. Very few GMs keep their jobs long term and most hit a breaking point like Atkins is in now. Is it better to: a) Make a bunch of rash moves to "win now and try and save your job" or; Make good decisions based on the projection of the team. I mean, how many GMs go "all in" and actually win and keep their jobs? Most GMs that try this leave the team is a terrible long term position (ala AA in 2015)....if you're interviewing for a new position, how do you justify that approach? "Well sir, I had my back to the wall and was going to lose my job, so I gave out a bunch of bad contracts and made short sighted trades to try and save it". I cant see that being something a new employer wants to hear. Vs. a GM who correctly assessed the state of the team and makes moves to try and retool or rebuild. I would think that discussion with a future employer would be a lot easier to justify. Employers typically want people who do the right thing for the company, not the selfish thing for their own personal gain. If we somehow land a couple solid FAs (perhaps like SF did late last year), and the team over performs and Atkins empties the farm ala AA and we win a couple of playoff series this year - do we think he's going to get an extension?

Then just say that - it's a fair point. Suggesting Atkins doesn't realize people don't want our money is silly. Of course they know that. We seem to mimicking the Giants. Nobody's wanted their money for years. But they never quit offering it and they did break thru with those late signings last year and then added Adames this year. Atkins did create an environment that attracted free agents and landed some top players (arguably as well as anyone has since the early 90's) - it was just short lived unfortunately. This Vlad/Bo era had so much promise, but something went rotten.

It's sad unfortunately.

Let me guess - more strawman arguments? LOL. lOL. LOL

So they are stupid for trying to sign him?

Apparently his family was a big influence in the decision. They wanted to stay in Arizona.

Watching teams like Detroit and KC make the playoffs last year may be influencing decisions...those teams were heavily flawed too.

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It will be interesting to see how quickly fans stop coming. I think they are slower to react than you think. It's a fun place to be now and most casuals don't know the game to anywhere near the level most in here do (even you ). I think even without a significant move, the dome will be relatively full until say mid-July to early August. Unfortunately, we may have the opportunity to find out.

To be fair - nobody's wanted SF's money the past 4-5 years, but they held out and ended up with Chapman and Snell on good deals late in the offseason last year.

Feels like SF sneaks in to grab Bregman

Because Detroit is an elite playoff team with ooodles of potential, star core players that are locked up and is one of the most beautiful places to live and play in America. Honestly - no idea. To be fair, Flaherty wasn't highly sought after last offseason. He'd been often injured in previous years and **** the bed down the stretch for the O's. Torres is a little different. He's coming off a down season, but hit well in the 2nd half and into the playoffs (after making some adjustments). His defense and base running suck balls, but he's still young and should be a quality player for a few more years. I'm surprised he had to take a pillow deal.

That just doesn't compute. Well done by the Tigers.

I have to assume he broke Javy Baez's records. Impressive work really.

**** works. Fantastic.

I think there's some truth to this. It will be interesting to see what the payroll is during the rebuild. Typically it drops right now, but you could probably really accelerate a rebuild if you kept the payroll up in the $200M - $240M range. As you say, continue to sign short term FA's (while being careful not to block your young players) and deal them at the deadline.

If we add a backend starter like Lynn and push Yariel to the pen, then Bloss makes a really nice #7 starter on the depth chart.

You realize you're talking to the dogg...?

Unfortunately, I suspect it's going to be.

I also agree the Jays need to just bite the bullet and keep Vlad. As a fan, I have never liked him, but I think you need to lock up a hitting talent like him (despite all the other ****ty things he does and the potential risks). I'd be fine with anything in the $400-$450M range. This is obviously a lot more than the Jays (and fans) likely wanted to pay, but I do agree with the cautious approach the FO took to date (given all the immaturity and inconsistencies). I think it's time to commit.

No concerns with being disappointed in results and/or FO over the past 4-5 years. But expecting them to pull a magical rabbit out of their hat in the current situation is unrealistic and unreasonable. You may also be horrified at the cost and long term impacts required to pull that all off. Incoming insult in 3, 2, 1...

That's nice, but it's not like this is some common issue that Vlad is "likely" to suffer from as well because he's overweight...the increased likelihood of Vlad suffering the same issue (as Fielder) over a skinny player is probably like 1.5%.