glory

Only ones they'd want are probably Tiedemann and Martinez, which I'd have no issues with, but not sure that would be enough. Others in the system lack the upside that would be enticing in trades unless you want to go further down with guys like Bonilla and Nimmala (neither one is setting the world on fire). Unfortunately it doesn't feel like the Jays have the system to make a blockbuster trade, but I agree, let the White Sox choose who they want. The Jays aren't developing anyone like Robert any time soon, unless someone from the lower minors breaks out.

Robert would add something the Jays need which is ceiling (lots of floor guys in the majors and minors). They need stars and while Robert is flawed in some ways, he still brings star potential on a team friendly deal. I wouldn’t be against it. There’s really no one in the minors I’d consider off limits. Do the Jays have enough to get a deal done? Probably not but it is the White Sox so who knows. Still seems like a Dombrowski move to me.

Barger hit LHP well in the minors over the past 3 seasons. He probably doesn't need to be platooned, but after how they treated DS in April, they probably aren't looking at splits.

Abreu had 120 PA and a 3 (!) wRC+. A completely washed George Springer has a 73 wRC+. That level of decline by Abreu is insane.

Not the 2018-19 Orioles.

Yeah if the Jays are going to be a middling team then do it with young players who might have potential, and even if they bomb, it’s still better than watching past prime vets on their last legs.

Atkins seems obsessed with depth no matter how marginal it is. So in his mind, having a fat DH like Vogelbach in the big leagues while a better player is in AAA to serve as depth makes the team better than having the better player in the Majors and having to find a Vogelbach equivalent to play in AAA. I guess that's not an exclusive trait to Atkins, a lot of GM's do that due to how options work, but he's a big believer in it based on how he's operated this season. There are ways to incorporate the prospects and use the vetrins more to their strengths (ex. platoon Turner with Horowitz, use KK as a 4th OF, etc), but for some reason Atkins wants to live or die with his old 0-1 WAR guys. I couldn't believe Roden started the year in AA given his age, and now it's mid June and he's still there. There's no plan or logic in place at all. As far as the Buffalo (and NH) guys, I think a lot of them possess a high floor, so that likely helps their chances of contributing to the big league roster. The only one whose floor is a little questionable is Orelvis, but he has big time power, so the ceiling might be worth the risk if he can play defense anywhere in the IF. Not sure a lineup with all of DS, Horowitz, Barger, Jimenez, Orelvis, and Roden would be any good, but I don't think that's a pure tanking lineup either. There's probably enough 2ish WAR potential with all of them to be respectable.

Yeah 2024 has been a s*** show. Just awful management from every aspect.

The first two months of the season were a masterclass on how not to build a “sustainable contender”. Platooning the only good hitting prospect you’ve developed in 5 years, keeping a 26 year old down in favor of guys who would be lucky to combine for a 1 WAR by the end of the season, calling up a prospect and immediately putting him at a position he’s never played in his pro life, etc. Unwatchable and poor decision making left and right.

I think he'll end up on the Phillies (they desperately need a CF and Dombrowski is a big move maker), but honestly I'm so underwhelmed with the Jays farm system that if they can sell high on some of them (Orelvis, Tiedemann, etc) for someone with Robert's upside/years of control, then I'd be ok with it even though I don't care for this core. I doubt they have the pieces to make it work though, unless they want to take some bad money or something.

Maybe but ultimately if the team wants to get under the tax, then they’ll have to start trading actual good players. The ones that need to be moved (Turner, KK, Springer, etc) won’t have any value or cost saving potential (maybe a bit with KK if his bat bounces back). I’d look to move Chad Green as well but he might be more of a 2025 trade piece as i don’t think the $10m he’s owed next season is going to be viewed as an asset by other teams, though maybe I’m wrong on that.

Agreed. They were obviously stuck with Springer due to the contract but it’s pitiful that they intentionally dropped nearly $25m on KK/Turner and expected a high floor from that. KK was coming off an offensive season he was unlikely to replicate (nevermind the team already had an elite defensive CF) and Turner is 105 after already starting to slip in 2023. The sad thing is they could probably maximize value out of those two with diminished roles. Use KK as a pinch runner/defensive replacement/4th OF and Turner as a platoon DH who only hits LHP. Springer is harder to use in a reduced role because he doesn’t really specialize in anything but playing less probably couldn’t hurt. Instead they’ll play almost everyday. This team needs to get younger and more athletic in a bad way.

Yeah in the winter I said the only way Atkins' off season makes sense is if he's preparing for an upper minors youth movement and just wants bodies that he could move around (ex. KK to 4th OF, Turner to platoon player, IKF to UT, etc) to accommodate that. Instead it looks like he's ready to live or (more likely) die with his group of mismatched vetrins, and I don't get it. Springer looks beyond washed and he barely gets off days, much less a reduced role in general. There doesn't appear to be urgency or a plan.

That Springer AB killed that inning. Absolutely brutal season for him.

Yeah Swanson not only had an injury but also the thing with his kid. He was rushed way too soon. It has been a s*** show on every level this season.

It's crazy that Mayza looked like s*** with low velocity before the season even started and he's still around in mid June despite predictably being awful.

No chance the Jays score 2 more runs.

Getting under the tax and resetting the penalties would definitely be a priority if they are selling at the deadline. It should probably be a priority regardless since this team isn’t worth the penalties that they will incur for being over the threshold, but no one is taking Kk and Turner’s contracts so it would be difficult to do that without trading the pieces that are actually valuable (Kikuchi, Garcia, etc).

Bichette is not pulling the ball as much as he did in his best seasons (down about 5% from his best offensive years). Not sure if it’s a shift in philosophy because sideburns joined the coaching staff and wants everyone driving singles the other way or related to something else.

Yeah Biggio is probably going to rake in LA. It would have never materialized here so no sense in getting upset when that happens but will be further indictment of the Jays coaching staff if it does. Anything that makes Mattingly and the hitting coaches on this team look worse than they already do works for me.

Yeah, it's been mentioned many times now, Teoscar from 2020-22 was essentially a 3-4 WAR/130-140 wRC+ player, and then was destroyed by Safeco in 2023 (he hit closer to 2020-22 levels on the road last season). He was a very reasonable free agent target pre-2024 hindsight. What he would have signed for with the Jays versus what he signed for with the Dodgers is something we don't know, but to suggest that anyone who thinks Teoscar would have been an upgrade is using hindsight rather than numbers that were readily available prior to this season is ridiculous.

Horowitz's profile as a 1B/DH is pretty lackluster, but as a 2B it's pretty intriguing. I haven't been watching the games so no idea how he's looked there, but if he's decent, then might want to keep him there with DS in LF against RHP.

Agreed, and Turner is closing in on 40, so a decline (which started already in 2023) shouldn't be surprising either. It was just a bad off season with little to no upside and a surprisingly low floor for such a large investment. Yariel is the only signing that was a reasonable one IMO because it had some semblance of long term thinking involved. Thankfully IKF is doing well so far, but he could easily drop to his normal offensive production (defense should give him an outside shot at a 2 WAR though).

What has happened to the Jays offense in 2023-24 has to be studied somewhere. It's mind boggling.

How long is Realmuto out? If it's for the rest of the season, then Jansen would fit that team perfectly. They are also looking for a CF, so Varsho would probably interest them too, but I doubt the Jays are considering moving anyone controllable through 2025.