glory

6.5 back of WC3 (counting H2H tiebreaker) and 4.5 behind the Red Sox who they are 0-3 against so far. The 3rd WC does create an avenue for more teams to be buyers than sellers, but I can't imagine the Jays are that delusional to think they are close. The rest of June should make it crystal clear to them if they are still not convinced. Rogers wanting to make major moves for a retool, is that speculation or do you know something? Trading the impending FAs is definitely going to happen if they are out of it, but major moves would imply bigger fish (Bo, Vlad). Hopefully Rogers is ok with at least a partial rebuild. Shapiro would have you believe that they were the reason the rebuild happened in 2019 instead of 2017. We will see if that's the case this time around. Tearing down a beloved team (2015-16) versus tearing down a team most fans can't stand are two different things.

John Schneider trying to tank for the good of the franchise.

Jansen with an 80 wRC+ and .092 ISO in his last 101 plate appearances. He's still pulling the ball and hitting it in the air, so I don't think he's been corrupted yet, but shows how great of a start he had given how he's looked over his last 100 PA.

That's what makes this so frustrating. The guys making the decisions have 1-2 years left on their deals (Shapiro and Atkins respectively). They have no incentive to do anything except go for it in 2025. And if by some chance the FO is smart enough to start trading away some bigger pieces (Bo, etc), that means we'd have to trust Atkins to trade veterans for prospects, which is the biggest weakness he has (player development in general). There's no right answer and nothing to root for that has any tangible benefit to the fans other than hoping it only takes 81 wins to get the 3rd WC and hoping the Jays offense can hit the best pitching staff in the league (Seattle) in a wild card round. John Schneider can make things a bit more interesting for us by playing the Buffalo crew and just living with the consequences, but that's not how they want to operate. Sadly it only gets worse as Votto is close to coming back, and JS probably salivating at the thought of putting him into the lineup.

The Jays have only made the playoffs 4 times in 30 years (or 5 if you want to count 2020 when like 25 teams made it in), so as Jays fans we have to appreciate any playoff appearances we can get, but this team isn't it and this front office if it gets to put any more of their fingerprints on this organization is going to dig a hole much deeper than they already have. I'm ok with 2024 going to s*** if it means real change happens afterwards. If that means no 82 win WC3 berth this year, then I'm sure we will get over it. I'm with you man, I legit hate everything about this team except the Buffalo crew who hopefully keep listening to Hague rather than the alternatives.

So they don't want to ride the hot hand (Clement), play the best hitting prospect in the org (Orelvis), or play the best player on the team since Aug 1 of last season (DS who has a 3.1 WAR since then, Varsho at 3.2 so close enough, but DS clearly with the highest wRC+ over that span). All so Springer, KK, and Turner can be in the lineup. At least Turner is heating up, so I get that, but no reason for KK or Springer to be in the lineup, and could have easily put Clement at short over IKF for a game. Ed Rogers is the only one who can save us at this point (replacing Shatkins), and that's a terrifying reality.

"If we were running this team without a fan base, we probably would've started a rebuild a year ago. We're trying to remain competitive for those fans." - Mark Shapiro after the 2017 season. He said that 7 years ago with a core he inherited. Now he's in that same spot with a core he built. I think we know how the trade deadline is going to go, sadly.

Yeah by no means did pinch hitting Springer for Barger decide the game, it was just a poor decision by a manager/coaching staff. The issues are definitely way deeper than that. They are now 5.5 back of WC3 (really 6.5 since they lost the tiebreaker to the Royals who hold that spot now). Asking this team to go on a huge 2nd half run despite a bottom 10 run differential in baseball, a horrid pen due to injuries, and an offense that can’t hit home runs is asking a lot.

Big comeback by the Dodgers.

This team trying to balance playing time between vets and young players when the vets are consistently playing like ass but always getting the benefit of the doubt is laughable. At least Turner is turning things around. Springer pinch hitting for Barger was a joke. Barger apparently hit a HR against this pitcher in the minors (which Dan brought up while Springer was on deck!), and Barger doesn’t have any split issues with LHP while Springer has a wRC+ in the 30’s against them this season. If that’s how JS wants to manage (or is being told to manage) then this team is in trouble.

Dan and Buck talking about how Barger homered against that same pitcher in the minors got a laugh out of me. Barger hit LHP well in the minors and Springer hasn't hit anybody this season but especially LHP. Not hindsight at all. Predictable move by this org but not the right one, and I'd say the same thing if Barger grounded into a DP.

George Springer and his 37 wRC+ against LHP coming in to pinch hit.

Little has been decent in small sample.

Atkins being really good with FA signings over the last 3-4 years is the reason why the KK, Turner, and IKF off season was so disappointing.

Wow, read his name a bunch of times over the years and always read it as Horowitz. Just put his name on Fangraphs and it doesn't even look the same. Learned something new.

Seriously, he was a beast in 2021 but couldn't stay healthy. Now he's replacement level at best, but could play 162 if asked to.

Wonder if we will see a lineup with all of Horowitz, Barger, Martinez, and DS in it in the next week. Probably not enough vetrin presents to make that work, but give us something to watch, dammit.

Hopefully Orelvis gets some PA's before Bichette is back. Power is very intriguing, and something this team really lacks.

Yeah, there's a good chance it is the Yankees coaching/development, at least on pitching side. They legit develop no name RP's every season, and have had success on the SP side as well (King who they traded, Gil, Schmidt, Cortes, etc). Not sure about their track record on the hitting side, certainly Judge is a huge success, but there's been some busts (Sanchez, Bird). I think Volpe is going to be good (though overrated), and Dominguez probably will be really good.

It's an organization with no plan or direction. Between how they've handled prospects this season, to how they've handled injuries (Gausman, Romano, Swanson), to how they've handled playing time (ex. Springer will get 600 PA even if he never gets another extra base hit for the rest of the season), to how they've handled payroll, to how they handled the off-season....it's been about as bad all around as I can remember. Like this is the same FO that talked about waves of talent and sustainable contention, yet they hate their prospects and built an old tax paying team almost entirely through free agency. Nothing makes sense. The 2021-22 teams and the 2023-24 teams feel like they were built by two different FO's.

This is what bothers me more than the "could have signed/traded for X instead" arguments. If the FA market sucked, and the trade market couldn't lead to anything useful, then why spend $40m on IKF, Turner, KK, and Vogelbach? Those signings were a big reason why they are a tax paying team this season (barring a trade deadline sell off). Like, the Yankees are spending more than ownership wants, but a big part of that is bringing Judge back, signing Rodon, trading for Soto, etc. They are spending big because they aimed as high as possible. What Atkins did was borderline irresponsible given the penalties that come with going over the CBT. He could have started the season with Barger/Clement at 3B, Horowitz (+ platoon buddy) at DH, and Tommy Pham or equivalent in LF, and the team would be no better or worse off, except younger and well below the tax. That's not hindsight. KK is 34 coming off an offensive season he wasn't going to duplicate, and Turner is 100 coming off a season that had red flags all over it. IKF is what he is. Vogelbach probably helped the Toronto food industry in the 2 months he was around, but a fat DH who can't do anything except hit RHP being used as a once a week bench player made no sense.

Mayza, Cabrera, Little, the other lefty, Pop….theres just too much quality in the pen right now. Seriously, between not playing the young guys enough in the bigs to moving prospects at a snail’s pace, it feels like Atkins is intentionally messing with us this season. Give us something to look forward to man. Even if Pardinho stinks, I’d rather watch him pitch than Pop.

Before the off season began I would have bet on the Jays being the ones to trade for O’Neill. Pre-2023 Atkins would have. Post 2023 Atkins thinks anyone with a K% over 20 is bad so probably didn’t even consider it.

The 2017 Jays started horribly but in June got to within 1 game of .500 multiple times. The last time they were a game under .500 that year was June 21. Their record: 35-36. They went on a tail spin from there. The similarities to 2017 are scary.

The Red Sox have hit more home runs in the RC tonight than the Jays have since the start of 2023.