glory

Rogers will get their wish when the Jays keep plugging along, miss the playoffs and completely bottom out when Donaldson leaves anyway. This old roster is not going to get any better or younger next year so let them suck again in 2018 and force ownership's hand. Either way we know where this ship is headed. I like Shapiro and Atkins but they aren't miracle workers.

Joel Sherman was on the radio and was asked about robo umps, and he quoted Buck Showalter about how if you want to fix a baseball game all you have to do is have an ump that will turn a 2-1 pitch into a 1-2 pitch. They have that much control on the game. In this case, a 4-1 lead with the bases loaded for Bautista turns into an out. Long story short, get some damn robo umps.

Morales for Moss. Saves the Jays a year (Moss has a mutual option for 2019 which the Jays could decline) and some money. The Royals might be a WC team this year and could use Morales and his clutchness at DH.

Either go on a huge run and make the playoffs or crash so hard that they finish last in the league. No in between.

Yeah I don't think the Marlins will do that as they could trade Yelich by himself and get a ton of value back, but hypothetically if you could acquire him for less by taking back a s*** load of money that Miami doesn't want to pay beyond this season, then it's a better alternative in the retooling scenario. Gordon has 3/38 guaranteed with a pretty easy to get vesting option if he stays healthy (since most managers will bat him lead off to let him collect a ton of PA's) for $14mm. I don't know if too many teams would give him that. He's not a bad player, but he's basically Revere at 2B heading into his 30's. I doubt the Marlins will get much value for him if he's traded alone. Depends on Miami wants to do I guess, but yeah they have no reason to trade Yelich or group him with s*** to lessen the return unless they want to shed as many money as possible. The reality of keeping JD, Happ, etc, next season, and just adding vets like Granderson to fill out the rest of the lineup is not very exciting, but I'm afraid that might be where we are heading. Convince Rogers to punt, Shapiro!

Wow just as it seemed like he was putting his injuries behind him. Sucks for Pineda.

Yeah I don't expect Rogers to ever rebuild, much less now when they are going to lead the AL in attendance, or come damn close to it for the second straight year. I actually feel bad for Shapiro because based on his history I'm sure he would not mind gutting this roster but this is the life of corporate ownership. I like the idea of taking back Miami's trash to get Yelich only because it helps 2018, does not sacrifice top prospects, and the team would be using the one thing ROgers might be good for which is financial muscle. If you're going to tread water to avoid a rebuild, then find creative ways to get affordable/high value impact talent without losing any prospects. If Yelich is a 3-4 win talent in LF for the next few years at a great rate, and all you have to do is stomach Volquez as your $13m #5 starter for a year, and/or Gordon at 2B until you can trade him somewhere else, then I'll take that over trying to sign another Morales type stop gap. At least you're getting 2018 wins in that scenario and not losing 2019-beyond wins by trading top prospects. Although, maybe giving the illusion of going for it, while purposely losing to get in better draft position and forcing ownership to accept a rebuild might work too.

If Shapiro is actually sincere about going for it without sacrificing the rebuilding of the farm, then he will have to pull off a better version of the 2013 Marlins trade. Rather than getting Miami's old expensive players, they need to target guys like Yelich, and maybe take on a bad contract (Gordon, Volquez) to lessen the prospects going the other way. Yelich at 4/44.5m for his age 26-29 seasons (with $15mm team option at age 30) seems like a pretty safe deal. If you can get that type of contract/player and all it really costs is the expense of taking back a bad contract that ultimately still might have value in some way, then you're killing two birds with one stone. Not my top choice, I'd MUCH rather rebuild, but if you're going to try to both rebuild and win at the same time, then it's going to take some risks.

Women can smell the scent on money from a mile away, even if it leads to an ugly redneck. Without looking it up, I'm sure Rasmus has done well in the wifey department.

Don't forget 2018 and the rest of 2017.

Quintana is really good, 28, and has 1.5 years of guaranteed control left plus two cheap options. He hasn't been as good this season as he was previously but that could change. The White Sox have rebuilt pretty well. THe Jays don't have anywhere near the amount of assets as they did (Sale, Eaton, Quintana) so I doubt the Jays could do something similar even if they wanted to.

Yeah take back his entire salary but get young players back as well. That's really the only way.

Yeah seriously, I don't know how they can justify moving along with this group. They are finally getting some one run wins/luck and that's the only reason they aren't dead last right now.

I think I'd prefer Josh Harrison as a trade option. Can play 2b, 3b, and the outfield. If they decide to trade JD, then they can slide Harrison over to 3B to fill that spot, and then slide him back to 2B when Travis misses most of 2018 with an injury.

Jays interested in Dee Gordon according to a few articles popping up this morning. I doubt it, but it's that time of year with rumors.

Home runs/juiced balls and the Yankees becoming relevant again are only going to help the game.

I don't even think Rogers said 'do what you want'. They may have told him flat out to be keep the disguise of being competitive so revenue doesn't plummet and Shapiro is just trying to make it work. The Jays are probably rolling in dough because of the last two playoff runs. Ownership isn't going to be quick to give that up. A small dip in attendance with a 80 win team is probably more desirable to Rogers than a huge dip that usually comes with rebuilding. Shapiro could have rebuilt when he first took over prior to the 2nd half playoff run. The moment that happened, no more rebuilding.

Danny Barnes turns 28 in October, so should they trade him this winter or the following one?

Sell.

Yeah I have a feeling next year at this time the Jays are going to regret not trading JD, Happ, etc, when they were more controllable and therefore more valuable to other teams. Hell, trade JD, Happ, and others, but still try to win in 2018. There will be a s*** ton of money saved by those moves which they could reallocate, in addition to having a much better farm system. It likely won't lead to the playoffs in 2018, but there's a good chance keeping those guys won't lead it to either.

I love this FO. I just don't think winning in 2018 is all that likely unless they pull out some great deals in the next few months.

All they gave up to get those three (a good SS, OF, and 2B) were Shane Greene, John Ryan Murphy, and Adam Warren. Basically a couple of relievers and a back-up catcher. Cashman has been great the past few years. Don't forget when he traded Chapman, Miller, and Beltran, the Yankees were actually over .500. He saw right through their mediocrity and made the logical choice. So far Shatkins has gotten one break with Smoak breaking out. Maybe they can move Estrada, Liriano, Bautista, and Smith for pieces like Hicks/Didi/Castro on other teams. They will certainly need to in order to be competitive in 2018. That seems like more and more of a long shot.

The Astros destroying any fake hope this team has heading into the break would be great. I've had enough .500 finishes to last a life time. Time to get crushed so that changes are made.

Top 2 prospect at age 18. Bichette should move up too if he handles Dunedin well for the rest of the season. The system slowly getting better.

The Yankees were able to retool because they traded for Didi, Castro, and Hicks for practically nothing, and their vets were able to bide time for their younger players to develop. THey moved McCann when Sanchez was ready, moved Beltran when Judge was ready, and so on. The Jays can try to win a WC spot every year if that's what makes the pockets of Rogers happy, but unless they get long term pieces in trades like the Yankees got above to supplement their old as dirt roster now, then it will be hard to keep the big league team good enough while waiting for the next wave to come up.