glory

Ty Kelly on the bench while Ryan Goins starts against Chris Sale. Gibby 1.0. will never die. His 2.0 phase ended after some early losing this season and he has reverted back to the only thing he knows best; derp.

Zeke's gonna play a lot this week now. Great.

Tepera, Goins, Navarro, Zeke. Gibbons loves him some scrubs.

Tepera had options left too though, and he's not good at all. I guess it helps if Gibby can't quit you. Barnes hasn't earned that love yet.

Tulo has a NTC so you're kinda stuck with the teams he would be willing to be traded to, and they may not want/need him. If he demands a trade, that's an easier way to facilitate a move, but even then, he has too many years and dollars in his 30's to be appealing to most teams. I could see him being moved with money eaten up but I wouldn't expect much back.

He also seems like the type who 1) hates being traded, and 2) doesn't mind being in a rebuilding situation (he seemed to like Colorado and helping the younger talent). Even if the Jays are stuck with him in a rebuilding phase, he might help the young players out.

If Tulo and Martin are traded, the value the Jays receive back will be pretty minor, if anything at all. Martin is unmovable with his contract, and Tulo is still a good player but not what he used to be (plus he has a ntc). At this rate the team might be better off keeping them even if they do rebuild since there is no SS or catcher ready to take over for them, and some vetrin leaders around a young team might help in development. The players the jays would have to move are Donaldson, Estrada, Liriano, Happ...and if you want to include young guys, then Pillar and Osuna as well. That's where there will be value coming back to varying degrees. I doubt they will move Sanchez and Stroman yet unless they want to completely bottom out.

Not with this offence.

No it isn't. I made a general statement saying let's not waste Guerrero's prime years by not rebuilding/staying mediocre, which you somehow took as building around an 18 year old in A-ball. No one ever said "trade Donaldson and build around Vlad". That's absurd. My point was trade Donaldson, rebuild, and then by the time Vlad comes up they'll be in a position to have players around the same age as him (from a development standpoint) that they can build around. Whether he actually becomes as good as he's capable of is a totally separate discussion, but that should be the goal. Create the next wave of young talent. You created a strawman based on my Guerrero comment, and then got called out for your absurd notion of "building around Donaldson" (this is not basketball, you can't build around one player to begin with). metafor's point pretty much nails the "window period" argument. That's what got AA in trouble. Let's not revisit that model of team building. Instead of scrambling to make the playoffs in the year JD has left, why not try to create something more sustainable over a longer period of time, even if it means some short-term hiccups? It's common sense.

Agree. Signing Donaldson to an extension now when the 2017 team looks old/bad, and the team's best prospects are still a few years away from reaching the majors is a huge risk with minimal reward. As great as he is, he's only going to get worse and more expensive from here on out, and we don't really know how long he will be elite or stay as injury free as he has prior to this season. On top of that, we don't know how many years it will take for the team's young players to not only reach the Majors but become good mlb players on top of that. It's either trade him for a ransom now and build towards a few years down the road, or try to re-sign him and watch him for another 5-7 years during his declining years on a team that likely won't be good enough around him. If the Jays had a great farm system and the 2017 team looked ready for a WS run, then I'm down for a JD extension. Based on what the team and situation looks like now, it would be better off to move on, and that sucks because I'd love to see JD retire as a Jay. That reality just doesn't jive with where the team is right now.

Yeah, even if Shatkins wanted to rebuild after 2016, there was no way it was going to happen after two straight playoff appearances and a huge increase in revenue + attendance. The only way this was was going to take a step back is if the team on the field forced them to. This year might be that year. And yes, the Mets owe us for the Dickey trade. A year and a half of Donaldson is probably more valuable than a lifetime of Dickey though, so not exactly a comparable situation, but whatever. Get their best prospects.

You're not rebuilding to build around Guerrero, you're rebuilding to actually have a group of young impact players who could come up around the same time to become the next core group. Building around Donaldson for two more years is what Shapiro tried to do. If 2017 is a bust, then you have him for one more year before he either leaves or becomes a $200mm+ contract in his 30's where you don't really know how much longer he will be elite. I'd have no issues re-signing JD if the team was winning and the farm system was booming, but it doesn't look that way. Their best prospects are years away and the MLB roster is old. It will be damn impossible to build around JD under those circumstances.

Blue Jays fans are bandwagon fans. They'll leave when times are rough but clearly will come back when the team is winning. We have seen it. I agree, start the rebuild now so that by the time Vlad comes up they won't waste his prime like they did with so many other players in the 90's/00's/10's by being mediocre when the situation called for a punt.

Yeah I think the chances of climbing out of a 2-10 start are pretty much slim and none, especially with the injuries tacked on. If everyone was healthy, then maybe, but not now. Friggin' Latos and Lawrence will probably be in the rotation for the next little while combined with no JD and a bunch of replacement level scrubs scattered all throughout the lineup. It's bad and I don't think this roster has a 40-19 run (or whatever it was) in them like the post trade deadline 2015 team did. I think the most frustrating thing is we started with 6 games against the O's. They are 5-1 against the Jays are 3-2 against everyone else. They got to pad their win total at our expense.

It was floated out there somewhere. Don't know if it was credible or not. That pick + two or three free agents would have been a hell of a lot better than Bautista alone in hindsight.

Rosario, Conforto + for Donaldson? Come on, let's get some ideas going. It's going to be a long year. We'll have nothing better to talk about.

Wasn't it said that Rogers was behind Bautista's re-signing? If so, the lost pick might sting even more for the front office. Damn I wish we found a way to trade for Puig back when he was attainable. Too late now.

Jays need to start the fire sale soon before more old guys get hurt. This is the Baseball Gods revenge for keeping the rotation healthy all year in 2016.

Holy s***, between the injuries, lack of depth, and age on this roster, this season is straight going to rival 2004. The trade deadline might be the only thing that saves us.

Those two would have cost between $150-200mm to bring in together, and right now, Fowler has a 13 wRC+ and Edwin is at 89. The Jays would be in the exact same spot as they are now except tied down to two more unmovable contracts. Dude, this was inevitable. We all hoped the winning could keep happening in spite of the age of the players, but baseball doesn't always work like that.

Not only did AA build an old team, but left nothing in the upper minors. This is Year 2 of Shatkins and only Tellez is in AAA. Two years without a pitching prospect in AAA or a position player prospect other than a 1B. Team needed to keep winning on the big league level to bide some time for the farm to catch up, but wasn't meant to be based on the 2-10 start and now dog pile of injuries coming up. The core got old before the prospects could filter up. Things are going to get worse before they get better. But yeah, let's keep longing for AA. Who wants a team that can win every year when you can have a team that makes the playoffs twice and then falls off the face of the earth again.

Yes. He built the aging roster with a small window of contention. Shatkins tried to stretch the window for as long as they could. This was inevitable.

Donaldson injured, Sanchez injured, lineup full of replacement level talent, old vets showing their age, no help on the way in the minors, and 2-10. This season is not going to be fun.

He doesn't do anything as good as or better than Barney. No need to have both on the same roster, and certainly no need to actually play Goins over Barney. That's just Gibby using his "gut" again. Damn I take back every good thing I said about him. You tricked me during the first week, Gibby.

Yeah, I honestly thought the front office had rubbed off on him, but one cold streak by the offence has made him Gibby 1.0 again. Zeke has reached Fatty Navarro levels when it comes to Gibby's hand picked golden boys. Can't believe they dropped Upton for him.