Key22

They should completely change his delivery - something along the Loup design - drop him down side arm. It may very well help with his control. He will like lose ticks on the fastball but the movement could increase on the 2 seam and it may take pressure off his knee (which is apparently his big health issue). It may make him a lefty specialist reliever but you know that is not all bad - plenty of starters have been forced to the pen and had good careers - Dan Plesac and Dennis Eckersly and even our own Brett Cecil. Romero's over the top isn't working - the 12-6 curve is tough to control. At this point there really is not harm in trying something completely different. If he doesn't he will never see Major League Baseball again.

I think you're always looking for upgrades but AA was correct about a few things - it has to be for the dollars that make sense and what talent you have to give up. I think everything these days has a dollar attached to the projections of players. This minor leaguer has X value that major league player has Y value. And you trade hoping to net a higher value. The free agent market kind of stunk. Outside of Tanaka was there any pitcher that truly did it for us? No way could we top the Yankees offer because they could have thrown another $100,000,000 at his if we tried to meet the demand. Jiminez, Garza, Nolaso Arroyo have not exactly been great. Santana has been obscenely good so far (but at least we did try for the guy). There was poo on the FA market at C and 2nd base. We probably got the best Catcher that wasn't going to cost an obscene amount of money. And offense isn't really the problem. It's too bad MB and Dickey can't pitch on 3 days rest - If he could I would rather see a 4 man rotation with an alternating 5th to give those 2 more starts. Something like Dickey Buerhle Hutchison Happ Dickey Buerhle McGowan Hutchison Dickey Buerhle Happ McGowan Dickey Buehrle Hutchison Happ Dickey Buerhle McGowan Hutchison Dickey Buehrle etc... Giving extra days to the arms that may explode might help

The Jays still have individual performance that is worth watching. Which is why I love baseball. I suppose I enjoyed watching Wendel Clark play for the Leafs but when it's 6-0 for the other team at the end of the second period and Wreggett was outshot 45 -6 it became an incredibly boring affair. At least with the Jays I can accept the fact that we have atrocious pitching and cling to the hope that "we'll sign 2 starters in the off-season to help .... ohhh - ooooh wait.... I would love Mr. Plinkett to do a review of the Toronto Blue Jays/Laughs over the last 20 years

You're right and I hadn't considered that. If a cheap guy fails or gets hurt it seems less of an impact. When $7million Romeros flop it takes a toll on the payroll. The problem with Jay's management is that they're always playing in this quasi middle of the road Twilight Zone. They have solid money to spend but it's not "big enough" money to be able to recover from anyone who goes down. If Tanaka's finger blew up the Yankees one day later could make a trade for Kershaw (theoretically). In other words they could immediately go out and take on a $300 million contract without a second thought. The Jays are not in that situation. But because they're not broke like Tampa they also don't seem to be forced to "think" and work on the farm system. Farrel noted that a big problem in Toronto is player development - we may draft well but that's worthless when no one of real impact comes up here. The reality is we're going to finish fourth or last - I am betting on last without Morrow in the Rotation and the pen being an utter cesspool. Notice I didn't put any RPs on the list. If we're going to finish last anyway - why not finish a bit further last and collect the 1st overall draft pick? So we'd get a whole bunch of young talent and an elite slot in the draft. Plus $115 million going into the off-season can plug a lot of holes - just get decent solid guys .260 18 homer types - nothing overly expensive - an Oakland A's model of sorts.

long would it take. Not to be too doom and gloom but given the contracts, the ages of the guys, the injuries and lack of performance if the Jays decided to go on a massive overhaul could they not in theory go on a trading spree and invigorate the farm with a staggering amount of talent? So realistically what "general" players can we get if we blew it up. Beurhle - teams know what they will get - a very solid number 3 (sometimes 2) starter - but with one more year at $19million. (2 upside prospects? Say One prospect in the 70-200 best list and one upside high ceiling A prospect?) RA Dickey - will probably rebound to something similar to last year's form. Contract isn't too bad. NL team might be more interested (pull the ole 1 for 1 like Marcum for Lawrie?) Jose Bautista - good contract can help any team. 3-4 upper tier prospects - (1 top 50, 1 bottom 50, 1 or 2 high ceiling single a prospects) Edwin Encarnacion - good contract can help most any team. 3-4 upper tier prospects - (1 top 50, 1 bottom 50, 1 or 2 high ceiling single a prospects) Jose Reyes - to Yankees. Big contract - trade to division rival - 1-2 upper tier prospects - (1 bottom 50 (Or Yankee top 10), 1 high ceiling single a prospect) Adam Lind - decent contract - no long term impact. Can be a bench hitter for a playoff club in the NL (1 medium/high ceiling single A prospect) Melky Cabrera - Having a huge season currently with a .914OPS and is 29 but in a contract year. (1 top 50 prospect, one bottom 50 prospect). Looks like a body that will break down to me and isn't a great fielder - but the numbers look good. He is probably at maximum value. Colby Rasmus Overall upper tier CF who will command money - not sure I want to build a team around a yokel hick. Should be able to garner one 50-100 prospect and one 100-200 prospect. This should net us roughly 14 well above average minor league talents and a few ceiling guys on top. The Jays after the trade deadline would have a rotation of: Hutchison Happ McGowan Stroman Ryan Rowland-Smith/Jenkins/Rogers/Redmond (spot starters and long men. SS - Diaz/Kawasaki 2B - Tolleson/Goins/Getz/(Izturas will come back) 3B - Lawrie 1B - Dan Johnson/Juan Francisco C - Navarro/Kratz/Thole CF - Gose LF - Kevin Pillar RF - Mastroianni Some of the prospects we trade for may be able to be slotted in to replace this lot. Salary back to very low - infuse the team with a truck load of talent and free up $115+ million in payroll. We'd stink it up this year but we'd have 15-17 guys infused in our farm system - then with $115 million+ we could fill in the gaps with 1-2 year contract year types to field a somewhat plausible team. With all the money we're spending we're still pathetic so we may as well be pathetic with young talent on the way and on the cusp.

The Jays pitching staff overall is clearly a disaster and I get the appeal of bringing up Stroman - if he's ready and they think he'll be effective then bring him up. He seems like he has a brain http://www.milb.com/multimedia/vpp.jsp?content_id=32464733&sid=t422 The bullpen has been overworked which may be a reason why they've also been ineffective. Starters are near the bottom of the league in IP once again. Morrow and McGowan have been poor overall. I'm not sure why the Jays can't get an innings eating number 4-5 guy. If the Jays can bring up a guy and that guy is a bit electric and can win some games it brings some boost to the clubhouse I'm sure. So I don't see any downsides to it. If he gets lit up big deal - everyone is getting lit up at this point.

1986 Mark Eichhorn had a nasty submarining curveball - he was 14-6 with a 1.72 ERA. 157 innings pitched all in relief 166 strike outs and a whopping 7.4 WAR. 0.955 WHIP

Actually it's more like beating the server to death with a baseball bat when they leave work.

Yes it is only the first game and I get that we MAY be overreacting to one game. But the difference between us and Texas is that Texas has a history of winning in the recent past. When a winner loses - "they'll easily bounce back" - when a loser loses it's somewhat expected. When a team advertised to win that traded most of its upper tier prospects and highly touted finishes dead last and then starts the following year with an utter trouncing by a team in the division - it causes the eyes to roll and say "here we go again." I've been a fan since the 80s born in the 70s. My dad was there to see Ault's two homer game (the first game the Jays ever played and won 9-5 in the snow). I get the frustration. The team came into existence in 1977 and made the playoffs in just 8 years (1985). And won two World Series titles 7 years later. In a 15 year span This club overall was pretty excellent - playoff runs several times - missing out but very close a few times and 2 WS titles. 20 years since and there may have been 2 seasons in the entire time where we even REMOTELY competed for anything. I can't remember playing meaningful games in September - although maybe I am forgetting - Gibbons gave us a good season in there but not in it. So I don't think you can blame attention spans - 20 years is a LOOOONG time to not even really compete. Now granted - we had some nice records - we had seasons where if we played in other divisions we would have made noise - but unfortunately being in the hunt in the AL East has not come about. Even Baltimore is doing more with less. I was for a lot of the moves AA made because based on what he did before the moves he was our silent ninja but now he has turned into Chris Farley "Beverly Hills Ninja" instead. And the thing is the 80s jays teams looked to be competitive - they brought up guys from the minors who actually did stuff. If I could see some light at the end of the tunnel - but what have got? ~$135 million payroll Dickey - 38 year old who can be great when the pitch is working - a gas can when it's not. MB - 35 soft toss lefty -who is quite solid but $20million a season - he's untradeable or virtually so without eating a big part of the contract. Morrow - if he gets to 100ip that'd be nice but you know at some point something's going to break - anyone now wonder why Seattle gave him up for peanuts. They knew - they put him in the pen because they knew. Hutchison - ray of light - maybe the only one in the starting rotation McGowan - see Morrow. Stroman? There are no stud shrimpy pitchers in the history of the game - and when someone points to one - he's typically average and still taller. Sanchez put up some good numbers - is he a light? I did not get a chance to see him but the numbers looked nice - Redmond was solid. But what do we have coming? Anyone? Do we have a single pitcher in the entire system who is projected to be a stud ace? One? Anyone? Please. Do we have a single bat at a premium position coming (SS, CF, C)? Do we have a single guy who looks like he will be a 30 homer, .850OPS (top 15% in the game kind of guy)? The old Jays would scoop up castoffs like Devon White and Tom Henke and develop Dave Steibs and Jimmy Keys and make trades to land Joe Carter and Roberto Alomar. Uggh - we develop Goins and JPA and trade for Gose and Drabek.

Ahh - I remember last year - "It's only the first game" "It's only the first series" "it's only the first 10 games" "It's only the first 20 games" "It's only the first 1/4 of the season - the championship Blue Jays were below .500 at the all-star break too" The Panic button should have been pressed in December when no upgrades to the team were made. And they're not playing chump teams to start the season - it is very possible they will start the season no better than 4-8 over the first 4 series. Reyes going down gives AA and Beeston an excuse for losing. AA says he's considering extending Reyes, Bautista and Edwin. (oh no). To be fair we are predicted to finish dead last - so at least with the 9-2 drubbing of our supposed ace - we can try and kill any hopes early of a surprise. My prediction 7-13 in the first 20. (7 games out of first).

I'd love to see a team in Vancouver. Not a big enough city population wise but a big enough city money wise. With the Canuckleheads being so abysmal maybe there is a tiny opening to get a baseball team in there.

Red Sox prospect arrested 'looking for sex' Ummm what's the problem? Isn't everyone looking for sex?

Yes so AA will probably sign him up to be our catcher of the future.

Is there really any point in signing Santana? He's not exactly the guy to put us over the top unless the top is a chance at 4rth place instead of 5th place. Not to be a downer but we still only have two established starting pitchers - 2 guys you can pretty much bank on giving you 190+ innings. Everyone else is "depth" - Morrow is a chandelier so expect 100 innings but you certainly can't rely on him for 150+ innings. Rogers and Happ are fifth starters. And really it all boils down to pitching - the team with the best pitching typically make the playoffs. SO rank our starting staff against the other 4 teams. Even with Santana it looks pretty ugly. If Baltimore gets Santana then it looks even uglier.

If he's healthy he will provide close to 200IP and solid albeit not spectacular numbers - Number 3/4. If Morrow can finally live up to the hype and Dickey/Beurhle do what they do it will be a pretty respectable rotation with Happ/Hutchison/Drabek/Stroman/McGowan/Rogers/Redmond/Jenkins and Romero battling for the fifth spot. It would be SOOO nice if Romero could bounce back - it would be nice to have a nice bit of luck for once.

Hi Chappy - I agree. It's more than just man games - it's WHO you lose. Some team that loses 4 scrubs (their bottom 2 in the order, their 5th starter and a LOOGY) can fill that. What other people (not you) don't seem to understand is that the term "depth" doesn't mean you have 10 all-stars in the minor leagues to replace the all-stars on the MLB squad. When an average player gets hurt - a "good depth" team can bring someone up who is at least somewhat competent - a Kawasaki - solid enough defense and not a complete black hole at the plate. That's a depth guy. I am not a big blame injury guy but losing 3/5 of the rotation 2 years back - sorry but no team is going to recover from that. Last year AGAIN the projected rotation was Dickey, Morrow, Beuhrle, Johnson, Romero. We didn't even get to opening day. Romero was gone filled in by Happ. And that would have probably been fine - but down goes Morrow, and Johnson (the guys some were expecting to be the true 1-2 starters). Happ gets beaned - so now you had 6 MLB starters and you're down to 2. C'mon people - you are not going to replace 3 guys you were hoping for at least number 3 starter quality from) and also losing Happ (he was the depth guy). That pretty much killed them but let's pile on - let's lost the lead off hitter and starting Shortstop for most of the season - sorry but you can't expect to have Jeter in the minors to come up and be ready. Melky - Seriously - THAT BAD? They guy was an 85 year old man out there. Izturas was a league average kind of guy and he too looked like an 85 year old man out there. JPA was never great but the guy fell off the low cliff he was on. All things considered I find it miraculous that they won 60 games let alone 74. I mean they had Kawasaki and Bonifacio and Melky and JPA in the same line-up with scrub pitchers galore being given the ball. An insanely overworked pen - though I did like Gibbons use of it - pitch a guy 3 innings give him 2 days off where he could which is less stressful on the arms not going every day or two all year. Wilner predicts they will win the wild-card - A stretch but if you can win 74 with what they had last year 90 doesn't seem totally impossible. IF they stay healthy. Santana apparently has a bum arm - didn't know that - he's not doing surgery and waiting for it to heal itself. So no way the Jays go anywhere near him - and probably why no one else has either. Jiminez at $50 million walks more than 4 per nine innings - how will that work in a patient hitting AL EAST?

This is not to defend AA but a long long while back on one of those interviews he did let it slip that when looking to acquire free agents they factor in things like price and the "the player's make-up." As soon as he said that I had a small "he's not going to bother going for Ubaldo then" moment. I tried to ignore it because the Jays rotation looks so atrocious that I figured he would get desperate and sign the guy anyway. The people who were on AA's case for making all the moves should in theory be happy that the Jays are standing pat. AA is not throwing good money and talent after bad. I was on his side somewhat when he made the moves - I at least understood the theory behind it. It's so tough to have a core line-up with massive 3/4 hitters at the same time and solid pen and what looked to be weakness in Boston and New York. So they took a shot. Last year's results puts us in a holding pattern of sorts. We have to let the team play as it was built. Realistically, as much as I initially wanted Jiminez out of the free agent pool, once the Yankees, a better team than us, got Tanaka then Jiminez is somewhat of a waste of time. A better team signs a better pitcher - us throwing money at a worse pitcher is going to help us catch the Yankees how? If we played to expectations last season then Jiminez might be a good fit but we need to establish that the current team is anywhere near those Vegas odds maker predictors. If Jiminez is the headcase people seem to think he is and a guy who pitches well in contract years then maybe he's not the guy. And of course there is still a chance at Santana - who at first I hated compared to Jiminez but the Bleacherreport suggest a few positives in favor of Santana that could actually make him a better pitcher in the AL East. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1941566-is-ubaldo-jimenez-or-ervin-santana-a-better-fit-for-blue-jays

Alex Anthopolous - Had superstar silent ninja written all over him. Now he's looking up to be as good as Harold Ballard. Okay - I'll be fair - no one is THAT bad but...

Frees up $13 million for the Red Sox - looks like either Drew or Jiminez to Boston now. Maybe both.

I teach in Hong Kong and have student loans to pay off in Canada - so personally I want to see the Canadian dollars drop to .60 like back in the early 90s - That sure would help me.

About a decade ago I read an article about "percentage" spent on team payroll. While the Yankees were outspending everyone else they were actually spending a lower percentage of revenue compared to the Blue Jays and most other teams in baseball. Their payroll was something like double Toronto's payroll but they took in something like 7 times the revenue/profit. Indeed, it was noted that the Yankees took in more money than the rest of the AL East teams COMBINED! Granted Tbay is small market and Baltimore is medium but still - the Jays, Sox, Rays, O's combined - indeed the article further stated the Yankees took in more revenue than the next 6 teams combined. IE, Mets, Angels, Dodgers etc. Shi Davidi's article noting what JP Ricciardi had to say about New York being easily able to have a $300million payroll is very true. Except that was true back in 2000 - they could very easily have a $500 -$800 million per year today. He said it didn't matter if it was him or Joe Shmoe running the Jays - the teams that spend win the teams that don;t have to rely on outstanding management - TBAY has done a great job - but how many world series rings do they have again? Same with the A's - great GMs doing wonders with little money but winning is the only thing that counts here and neither have won jack squat. http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/jays-handcuffed-by-strategy-in-big-mans-division/

We're a fifth place team - we'll be a fifth place team if we sign any 2 of the top 3 free agent pitchers left. IE Jiminex, Garza, Santana, Burnett. Jays sign any 2 of these - still equals 5th place.

A couple of positives - 1) this was way too much money for the Jays to get involved with for a somewhat risky pitcher. So for this cash no way were we getting him. 2) absolutely NOBODY is going to place expectations on the Jays to win this division so the pressure is completely off - no Vegas odds of WS titles or easy first place finishes. Indeed, if they are expected to finish higher than 5th I would be surprised. So in this respect our guys can play pressure free. Go out and have a bit of fun - the ship is sunk - Zaun better bring his gloves.

It would be really cool if in his first start he blows his elbow and needs Tommy John Surgery. Not that I wish an injury but hey Drabek has had two and Hutchison - so it would be nice if the Yankees fresh new starter goes down for a couple of years - has a decent third year a great 4th year and leaves. But this is wishful thinking - what is going to happen is that he will win 20 games a year each year for 7 years and win 5 CY young awards with league leading WAR. The 4th place Yankees have added the best CF on the FA market (replaces the loss of Cano offensively so largely a wash) - the best catcher on the FA market , and the best starting pitcher available - Meanwhile the 5th place Blue Jays have added a second rate catcher who is NOT a starting catcher and a bunch of scrubs to play second base. Anyone they sign as a free agent signing is worse than Tanaka so unless they sign two of them they're still well behind. The Aroid suspension certainly helps the Yankees - and really - is anyone surprised? - They suspend the guy to allow the purse strings to open on Tanaka. So much for the west coast - LOL - a nice ploy to get the big money. EDIT - oh I forgot Beltran - Offense is WAY WAY better than ours - Starting Pitching is WAY WAY better than ours, Relif Pitching is on par with ours, and they have a better manager and more ownership commitment and a better GM.

Yeah let's sign Tanaka just to make Griffin look like a fool - Then they can his sorry hide.