BigCecil

Just tuned in. I see there won't be any "Where are all the Kooch haters now?" posts tonight. Sadly. Look at that line - woof! 4 hits, 2 HBP and 4 BB, 0 K over 2 1/3 - yikes. I didn't see it but can we really start this guy anymore now in a season we are trying to W? They can still win this game! 6 outs left.

To be fair there is lots of praise for this FO OTB. Which they deserve. There is also criticism, which they deserve. The criticism now is heightened because we are scuffling some. Most of the angst isn't directed at Charlie because mostly he is pushing what buttons he has to push right now ok. It's all good. Let's hope that the under performers get white hot and stay healthy the last 80 and we nail the first wildcard at a minimum. Every W/L matters but there is lots of time left.

thanks for the nudge. i did. i never vote in this but "Cap'tain I'm givin' it all she's got" with Kirk. For some reason so want to see him get rewarded and start.

Clearly there is significant under performance but it would have been risky for the FO to bet on 160 games each and 12+ WAR repeat from Bo & Vlad or Manoah not suffering some sophomore issues, for example. Springer? Who knows what he will give you. Who woulda thunk only Kirk, Espy and now even Biggio would be only over performers from '21 so far?

Trashing is way too strong. Are they above some criticism? Who really thought this pen was a good and competitive pen? Who didn't think we need some LHH impact balance? Who was over the moon about the Kooch signing or obtaining Tapia? Who is happy with the pitching development? Read the comments about the Berrios deal when it happened last year including yours. Its half way through the season and the most obvious holes are showing glaringly again. Its all on the heels of missing the playoffs in '21 by a single game. Still a bit raw. Lets see what the deadline and the last 80 brings. Its a reasonable and fair conversation 7 years in in my view. Is it a little over heated because of last 10 and how its gone so far in '22? Maybe.

funny. i don't remember it that way but i believe you. I remember Bauer and that soft tosser Tomlin also killing us. I do remember it that way against KC in '15 for sure. And Alcides raking etc. JD and Martin smashing balls right at people. Ump show in GM 6. etc. If you have those '16 series stats handy please post or PM them. Glutton for punishment here. Im not comparing the teams & talent...just how the seasons felt, to me anyway.

This is excellent and accurate, but the opposite of Wilner ish. He is much more Baghdad Bob like.

Depressing but accurate. 2016 was a pretty lame year after '15. But hey Edwin bashed a HR to walk off the Orioles in the wildcard while Britton sat in the pen, and then Odor threw a ball away at 1B on a DP so JD could sprint home and score vs TEX. All of a sudden we are playing CLE and reverting back to getting reamed by Andrew Miller and struggling against their SP. Mostly '16 felt like '22 so far.

Exactly. Totally not linear. Thats why I was so pissed we blew last season IMO. I saw it as a failed season not a building block. There is 0 guarantee players get better and/or stay healthy the next year. The list of Bellingers and Yelichs is a mile long. You can't bank great individual performances and assume they just get better each year in a league of adjustments. Carpe Diem. I hope you are right but its shocks me we have pens like this back to back and so little to show in pitching development.

We pissed last year away mostly because of the pen. Sound familiar? I think the team last year had so many positive surprises it surprised the FO we were as competitive so soon. With some LH thump and a couple of better pen arms the '21 team could have done some damage in the playoffs. So far this season many of the assets we counted on to do even more in '22 have regressed. Berrios, Vlad, Bo, Teo etc.

In some ways we benefitted from playing in ML parks. Semien and Vlad et al power numbers may have gotten a boost. Ray won CY, Semien was a 7 WAR player, Vlad was elite, Bo/Teo were better and Matz was an excellent 5th SP. All were relatively cheap.

Ya. He is definitely going to force teams to be very cautious now with the news.

Welcome. Can be a little caustic up in here but lots of knowledgeable and fun posters of which I am neither. Hope you enjoy the Board.

Yep. We do pay so much for SP. You can write a million glass half full or empty scenarios for this situation over next 3/4 years. Money comes off the books yes, but you have to fill the spots with plus assets and our minor's bats don't exactly look too promising, sans Moreno. And if we do sign Vlad and or Bo and or Teo the delta gets tacked on to the payroll. If we don't sign Bo and Chappy we need a SS and 3B. 7/8 ish WAR there. Its a fairly high probability Springer is going to decline over next 2-3 years. Anyway...its going to be interesting and I'd rather capitalize on what we have now in 22 and 23.

Absolutely! Good news. We need that arm asap and hopefully he hasn't lost anything even temporarily. Mayza hasn't really yet been Mayza since he came off IL.

He has been great this year on a rebound. He had some bad years against LHP and his best OF days are over. He used to play CF. He is very handy LHH to have around but wouldn't want to over pay for him given his limited defensive playing options and regression risk.

FO surprised me with Berrios deal last yr. They are pretty unpredictable. I know its these kinds of deals happen more often in off season but I am wondering if we don't see a major swap of roster talent where they are looking for more starter control and/or LHH etc etc. I still remember well the shock of late 1990 two established players McGriff/Fernandez going for Alomar/Carter. Some people expecting a sustained contender window. With the $ we have in Berrios/Gausman/Springer and Bo, Vlad, Teo clocks ticking juxtaposed against our lack of cheap pitching depth thats not going to be easy. Manoah is still a long ways out unless they try and extend him out early to trade risk. I expect both Bo and Vlad will have egregious financial expectations and someone will overpay. A lot will depend on how Rogers is willing to spend. This FO has gotten more than I thought they would out of them. Could see Lourdes with his cheap contract and even Teo rolled out in a deal(s) etc this season. 3 Catchers and Biggio has enhanced his value.

Thats a horrific tragedy. Parents unimaginable perpetual nightmare. So so sad for them all. Similar happened to friend of mine on lake in Kelowna BC as a teen. He was very lucky. Still has massive prop scars on his back for life.

Teo brain cramp little league play again. Love the guy but head shaking baseball IQ too often.

Cavan Biggio July 1st owns a 133 wRC+

Just watched a video of Russel Martin tribute for Canada Day. Choked me up. What a career. Classy move by Jays. Martin hugely underrated. #55 with a massive 55 career fWAR and his jersey belongs in the HOF.

Holy f*** we just beat the Rays in front of 40000 fans and millions watched on TV on Canada Day, and "Merry Xmas" is being debated. It's about 8000 degrees in BC today which makes me care even less about what Christmas or Xmas is called.

Thanks for reports guys. Big win in front of huge crowd. Every W we pull out before we add to fill some holes is critical.

Just seeing game and box score now. Go Jays! Boys have swung it. Romo time. Terrifying actually. Berrios line not stunning. How was he?

Now that's quite funny Jim.