saskjayfan

The Ranger signed Gibson and Lyles. Those are hardly difference makers. The Reds signed Moustakas for a deal much higher than projected. Wheeler turned down the Whitesox despite being offered more money. Which starter are the Jays going to sign next year? I'm guessing no one. The plan is to wait things out until 2022 and if our pitching prospects turn out we compete in 2022. If they don't we trade off the core for our next rebuild. It will be an incredibly exciting time. Just think of the prospects we will get for Vlad and Bo.

If he comes with such health risk, who's going to give anything of value then?

I'm sure I was advocating an extension. There was only speculation in the media as to the term and dollars. Bautista denied the 150 million dollar ask. I certainly wasn't advocating a 7 year term. I'm sure I would have been on a 3 or 4 year term for Bautista and it would have been a bad decision. If you go further back in the posts on the old board, I also indicated strongly the day Bautista signed his previous deal that it was a fantastic contract and 90% on here thought it was a terrible signing. How did that 5 for 64 with a team option work out? You would have posted something if you actually found it, and if you spent the time trying to find posts from 3 years ago, you need to get a life.

Giles certainly isn't untouchable if the trade value is there, but if it isn't you think he's going to fall off a cliff in 2021 or 2022? I don't think his age 30 and 31 or 32 seasons can't be good. Yates was pretty good at 31 and 32. If you want to go out and get a free agent in 2021 a 3 year 39 mil extension makes a lot of sense. Who in their right mind is going to sign with the Jays next off season if they have zero pitching. Yes relievers are volatile and there is risk there. At some point you're going to have to stick your neck out on the line on a few players.

Giles finished the season. He's pitched north of 50 innings each of the last 5 years. I don't think his health is that big of a concern. We should wait till the deadline because if our young core does play well we should be entertaining an extension. We've all heard how difficult it is to attract players. If Giles likes it here and is open to an extension, why would we trade a quality closer if he will sign an extension.

Lee's grandson?

The problem is we're waiting and seeing how the young kids develop instead of believing in them. Yes, the lawrie's and Snider's are out there and one of these young kids could turn out to be a letdown. Sometimes players eventually become great but it takes a couple years, but lots of guys who are truly great are great from the get go. You look at Soto, Acuna, Lindor, Betts, Trout. They were all studs very quickly. Vlad, Bo, and Cavan could develop very quickly. Gurriel and Hernandez have already had more time. If we come to season's end and we're top 5 in runs scored and bottom 5 in runs allowed in the AL it's going to be bitterly disappointing because we could have addressed the pitching. We should be focused on competing in 2021 at the latest and could have given ourselves a shot this year. I've heard it's going to be 2 more years and even probably 4 more years on this board. Are there really people out there willing to wait 4 more years to grow some balls and make some real moves to compete? We could have traded for Kluber. The salary commitments would have only been 2 years. You sign Ryu and that's 34 to 37 added to payroll. You sign Edwin to a 1 and 10, Betances to a 1 and 10. You could have probably got wood for 1 and 8. Shun would have been 4. That would have brought payroll in the 120 range. You would have had a shot at competing for a wild card. Your only long term commitment would have been Ryu. Instead we added Anderson and Roark and have a payroll sitting in the 80 mil range. We're going to win 75 games assuming the young guys actually develop. If we had spent the money and been aggressive and we got hit with injuries or the young guys didn't take a leap forward we could still be a 75 win team and you spent 40 mil more. That's the kind of thing that gets you fired. You have to have balls to make moves and go for it. The upside is a team that can contend for a playoff spot. A rotation of Kluber, Ryu, Wood, Shoemaker and Thornton with Pearson added in has a tremendous upside, but also has a big downside as well. It's both scary and exciting. We're on path to not making any significant push until 2022. Most of you are tickled pink about this. I'm just more of a risk taker.

I think they would have signed the right guy, but Shapiro said we have more bodies than at bats. I think we'll see Drury and McKinney play some first base and they will rotate the DH. I wouldn't be shocked if they signed a first baseman. It just a sense and gut feeling I have right now based on his comments.

I thought they were going to sign a first baseman, but I wouldn't be shocked if they didn't after hearing shapiro. I think the off season is done, outside of signing an arm or two for the bullpen. There's an outside shot of us getting Ryu, but I highly doubt it. We're pretty much done.

He said they indicated to agents a willingness to exceed 100 million. He didn't say they made offers in excess of 100 million. They did their due diligence on Cole and Strasburg, so they would have indicated a willingness to exceed 100 mil on those guys.

that's the plan though, so it's ok.

The Rays have no choice, but to be frugal. They have home grown guys in Chirinos, Snell and Yarbrough. They lucked out or astutely traded for a young Tyler Glasnow. With their limited budget they pooled all their money into one guy in Morton. Morton at 2 years and a 16 AAV last year would garner 3 and 60 the way this year's market has gone. How is this anything like the Jays rotation. Where is our Morton or our Snell? We didn't sign Ryu. Pearson may turn into our Snell, but he's missing the first 2 months. The other pitchers aren't young. We paid 12 mil year to an old flyball pitcher in Roark who will put up a FIP north of 5. Anderson is old and predictable. This japanese signing could turn out to be a Rays like move and there's nothing wrong with the gamble. We're not rolling with the young guys. Shoemaker is 33, Anderson is 32, Roark is 33, even this japanese dude is 33. None of those guys are Charlie Morton. Most of the guys you reference are younger guys still improving. Our guys are already in decline mode and we don't have Snell or Morton at the top. The comparison is laughable. We're going to roll along this year and win 76 games because our young position players will continue to grow and our pitching will be woefully short. Even if we're going with the idea that we don't need any front line starters, we just need a bunch of average starters to win 80+ games, don't we need a bullpen. Why haven't we signed Betances yet if we're rolling in this direction. Giles is fantastic, but he's one guy. Our attendance and tv numbers are going to suck this year and we will see if Shapiro and Atkins are here in 2021.

That's hilarious.

and yet is lack of an extension suggests his confidence may be misplaced.

Shatkins won't be with this team next off season

well then this off season has been an abject failure.

The signing itself is fine. If they now feel they don't need to sign ryu because of this signing, that's beyond pathetic.

5 and 90 for me. Front load it. Those last 2 years could average 12.5 mil per season.

It seems odd that Shapiro who has a year left on his contact hasn't signed an extension. Is this Shapiro not signing because he may want to jump ship elsewhere, or is it Rogers not offering an extension taking a wait and see attitude on how the season unfolds?

Just go out and pay Ryu the same contract bumgarner got. 5 and 85.

Merry Christmas one and all.

What prospects do you really want to target from the Redsox?

It was a joke. We should have a good enough relationship given past dealings that we would have been able to have a shot to offer a package. Too much risk for our blood though.

More prospect love. Nothing in his numbers suggests Clase is the 2nd coming of Aroldis Chapman. Deshields is a free agent in 2 years. They wanted to get rid of salary and got a pitcher in return. It may be a good trade for them if they're waiving the white flag and looking to rebuild. Kluber comes with risk and he could very well be a top 5 cy young candidate next year. His injuries weren't one's that players typically can't fully recover from.

Deshields has 2 years of control left. Kluber had a broken forearm. Pearson bounced back nice from a broken forearm. It's not like Kluber was crap for an extended period. He basically didn't pitch last year due to injury. He was one of the most reliable starters in baseball from 2014 to 2018.