jaysblue

All I've been saying is that Atkin's tenure has been subpar when you look at the bigger picture. Yes he's put together competitive teams since 2021 (or 2020), but the end results have fell short of expectations. He hasn't taken this team to the next level. And we're already on Year 3 or 4 and as every year passes, that window closes more. I hope the Jays could squeak into the Postseason and see what they could do with their strong pitching staff and defense. Even if they miss out on the Postseason, I would give Atkins another crack at it, but also wouldn't be crying if he was let go and Crick was hired.

Yeah there could, but right now there isn't unless someone has a huge breakout in the minors next season or the Jays draft a stud in the prospect draft who is close to MLB ready. I know Bo can be retained, but he's a big piece and that would tie up a lot of money for the next decade pretty much. If the Jays let him walk, it's likely because he's too much money and because the team underachieved in 2024 and 2025. I'm not crazy about giving Bo $30M per season over 8 or 9 years anyways. He could end up like Javier Baez or worse Tim Anderson. Ideally, would have best to sign him to an extension after 2021. Springer is a FA after 2026. Bassitt after 2025. I love Kevin Gausman, though reality is he might start to have some regression as he ages. It's a shame the Jays haven't taken advantage of what Gausman has done over the last two years here. He's been one of the best pitchers in baseball. I still think Gausman could pitch at a high level, but can't take what he's done for granted and think its automatic year to year moving forward. Ironic how AA was criticized for having an aging expensive team, yet Atkins when his time here is done likely has the same thing.

What will the Jays have left after 2024 and 2025? Yeah I agree, this team has the pitching and defense to do well in the Postseason. Just have to get there. I'm hoping they could win their first Postseason game this season in what is Year 3 of their competitive window (Year 4 if you want to count 2020). Never said the window was closed, but it's closing more and more as the years go by. Pretty much the Jays have another year or two after this season. If the team is disappointing again in 2024, Atkins is likely gone.

And the 2016 future Guardians!

The Jays still planned on being competitive in 2017 and even in 2018, then started to tear things down. If they felt the window closed, Atkins should have traded Donaldson, Happ, Osuna, Stroman etc. earlier. But we don't know if Rogers had a say in that decision after those huge 2015 and 2016 seasons where excitement was at an all time high. Sucks guys like Devon Travis, Jose Bautista, Tulo, Martin were finished and Aaron Sanchez and Liriano turned into pumpkins on the pitching side. If guys stayed healthy, I think the Jays still had another year or two of a window until 2018. Didn't work out that way though. Atkins has done a great job putting a competitive team on the field for the last 4 years (including the shortened 2020 season). Though ZERO Postseason wins to date with the extra WC spots and balanced schedule. Yet here we are.

Where do you think the Jays will be after 2024 and 2025? Aging veterans, top players like Bo hitting free agency and no elite prospects knocking on the door. So far during the prime years of their window, the Jays haven't won a Postseason game yet. Hope that could change this season, but gotta make the Postseason first.

Where did I give Atkins full credit for 2016? Sure he complimented the roster well with signing JA Happ and at the trade deadline going after Grilli and Liriano. He did a very nice job. But yeah taking over a team that almost won the World Series isn't that bad of a thing you dingleberry! Stop putting words into my mouth!

Yeah I agree. I think majority of the blame is on the players first and foremost. Then on the manager and some of the coaching staff. Like I said before, I have no issue with Atkins returning in 2024. Also, couldn't care if he was gone. But yeah I think he should have another go at it and have a chance to finish what he started.

The Jays almost won a World Series in 2016 during Atkins' first season here lol. Where have you been?

Considering the huge fumble trades that were a complete abomination, he brought Toronto closer to a World Series during his tenure than Atkins has thus far. But yeah I'm not disagreeing with you, those trades were awful.

Jays need to go 16-0! It starts tonight! Lets go!

It's hilarious how you've been whining about this team and front office over the last week. Completely different tunes from May and June. I mean you even criticized this front office at the end of the 2021 season and 2022, yet when I said the same thing as you back in the summer, you were calling me out.

At least Brownie, while he can be condescending at times, actually makes arguments. You just sit on the sidelines and offer nothing to the conversation.

I think Atkins deserves some blame for this season and I'm sure he would admit that as well. At the end of the day, he put this roster together. Majority of the players in this lineup have struggled, not just one or two players. So I'm assuming it's all just bad luck or maybe we have to question the decision making made by Atkins and the FO. They're the smart ones who know more than we do, and have access to projections that we don't. Can't believe so many of those projections went sideways, especially since these guys are all brilliant!

Yeah I don't think anyone is arguing those two trades weren't his best, but to define his tenure here by just those two deals is ridiculous. I think most of the decisions and moves by AA here were solid. He's the one who made baseball relevant again in the city of Toronto and across Canada. As for the Marlins trade: - Hech had a -1.3 WAR in 2013. He was solid in 2015 posting a 2.6 WAR. Otherwise, not really missed. - Yunel Escobar like you said was traded for political reasons, so AA had no choice. Marlins moved him to Tampa after and he had a 3 WAR season. Maybe Yunel doesn't get traded if he wasn't acting like a jerk. - Handsome Jake didn't do anything with the Marlins. He had solid years with the Astros as a 4th outfielder: 1.8 WAR, 1.2 WAR, 2.1 WAR seasons from 2015-2017. - Henderson Alvarez had a 2 WAR and 2.5 WAR season in 2013 and 2014. Wouldn't have made a difference in 2015 and 2016 whatsoever. - Anthony DeSclafani had solid years once he was traded to Cincy - 3.1 and 2.1 WAR seasons in 2015 and 2016. Has had a solid career as a mid-rotation/No.4 type starter. I'm not losing sleep over any of those guys to be honest. All of them were easily replaceable. We're talking about a slap-hitting/utility player, a 4th outfielder, and a starter with low K rates. Yunel was solid in 2013, 2015 and decent in 2016. Anthony DeSclafani was the one who ended up having a solid career, and would have been useful in 2015 and 2016 but oh well.

Yeah they were awful at the time considering but did the Jays really miss anyone of significance in that Marlins trade? At the time, it was tough signing big name FA's in Toronto so I understand some of the reasoning behind it and to be honest it wasn't all that bad. Reyes had a 2.5 WAR in 93 games in 2013 and a 3.8 WAR in 2014. Completely fell off in 2015, though AA traded for Tulo at the deadline. Mark Buehrle was really solid and durable here. Posted WARs of 2.2, 3.7 and 2 during his three seasons here. The X factor was Josh Johnson. If he was healthy, would have made the trade look better than it was. He was 28-years-old coming off a 3.3 WAR season and who had a 5.5 WAR and 6 WAR season in 2009 and 2010. Who would have thought Johnson was done after the 2013 season at the age of 29? The RA Dickey trade was the one that hurt. It happened because of the Marlins trade unfortunately. Definitely was a weird trade by AA and probably was his worst. Wasn't a fan of acquiring Dickey at that high price tag, but he for the most part was durable and ate innings. 1.8 WAR in each season here from 2013-2015 and a 0.8 WAR in 2016. Still, wish the Jays had Thor in 2015 and 2016.

Yeah the Jays have the starting pitching, bullpen and defense to go on a deep Postseason run for sure. Going to be tough to win 2-1 or 3-2 games every night though. I'm hoping we see a Dodgers/Braves NLCS. That will be an awesome series if it happens.

Yeah I don't agree that AA is only good now because he learned from being in the Dodgers organization for a couple of years. Yes with experience, most do gain more knowledge and get better. AA did a lot of great things in Toronto. He built back the farm system. Made some big trades that worked out and some that didn't. He locked up two core players in Bautista and EE to very team friendly extensions. Made some big trade deadline deals that turned this team into a legit World Series contender. He made baseball relevant again in Toronto. We could say Shapiro and Atkins walked into a good situation which they did. Baseball was extremely popular again here, they had a World Series contending team in 2016 and even believed they were competitive in 2017 before the injuries.

Yeah the new infield Club 100 looks pretty sick. They have something like that in San Francisco. Nice enclosed area so less crazy than the whole concourse. If the team doesn't win games and has a couple of losing seasons, attendance will take a slight hit though. That's the reality.

Season isn't over but yeah no room for error the rest of the way. Just have to take it one game at a time. Like some have said, tough to really cheer on and like this group given the way they've played this season. Still want to see Postseason baseball in Toronto. But if it doesn't happen, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. Even when the Jays didn't make the Postseason before, I still enjoyed October baseball.

Yeah attendance numbers have been really good this season. Mostly earlier on because the Leafs/Raps were out of the Playoffs, the hype surrounding the new renos, and since it was summer. A lot of casuals or people I know who never went to a Jays game before went to a couple this summer. Sure Rogers isn't complaining but if this team doesn't produce a winner, attendance numbers will take a hit. I think the low attendance this series is a factor of many things: everyone back at school, people tapped out from the summer, and less excitement around this team/group given their struggles. Leafs and the Raptors are crazy expensive and awful. Mostly corporate owns a lot of those seats.

I bought myself a beautiful new Samsung 77" OLED TV with a soundbar, woofer and rear speakers. Its an awesome setup. No need to spend money on expensive tickets and expensive food and drinks at the Rogers Centre unless there is a particular matchup or player I want to see. I'll save my money and plan a weekend trip in October down in the States to see a DS or LS series. Get to experience a better ballpark and better teams at least!

I was saying this over the summer and was being heavily criticized for it by some members. I don't get the praise Atkins gets on here while those same posters don't give AA the credit he deserves. All excuses during the months of May, June and July and look at where we are now. This team is a borderline playoff team, plain and simple. Enough of "oh it's bad luck," or "it's early" or "just wait until the Jays have any easier schedule after the All-Star break." Now the excuses are "everyone in the lineup is largely underperforming and that was tough to project." While I don't believe all the blame should be placed on Atkins, he does own some of it. He's the one who created the roster and put it together. He's the one responsible for hiring the manager and coaching staff. He's the one who traded the teams top asset for Varsho who hasn't done much. He's the one who signed Springer to a long term deal. He's the one who made the decision to build the roster around the fact that Vlad and Bo were going to be their elite stars. He's the one who traded away some offensive minded bats like Teo and LGJ. He's the one who never addressed the issue with this lineup earlier on in the season or at the deadline when it was evident they could have used another power bat or two. There should be no excuses. This team was one of the healthiest teams in baseball and it's not like they lost 1 or 2 key players to long term injuries. A number of players like Kikuchi, Whitt, Belt and KK over-performed. The Jays even ended up getting Ryu and Green back for the stretch run. They had a lot of luck on their side considering. During his tenure, his teams have produced ZERO playoff wins to this date. Atkins has made some solid moves and has fielded competitive teams, but the homerism surrounding him on here is too much. So far his tenure here has been subpar when you look at the results to date.

That's why Spanky got hosed buying that Bo jersey over the weekend. The dude is gone after 2025 and that jersey will be 50-60% off!

If you're downtown sure. What happens if you live and work outside of the downtown core? Easily 45 mins to an hour commute each way. As well, factor in the cost to watch a game live now. Not like it was used to if you purchase from the Jays box office or from people outside of the Rogers Centre. If you want to purchase decent seats, buy food and have one or two beers, easily $100. Tough for people given the high cost of living and everything now to just do that a couple nights a week, unless they're running up a balance on their credit cards.