leaffie

But most thought the Jays underachieved all year last year, and finally started clicking near the end of the year. But this year, there is something wrong with the basic makeup of this team. Too many errors, terrible bullpen for too much of the season. starting pitching that was number one, to probably near the bottom this year. When was the last time anyone saw this team excited and even appearing interested.

This team has played like this all year. Even if they should luck into a second wildcard, does anyone have any hope that they can all of a sudden play well.

I wondered if Donaldson is seeing the ball as well since he added that faceguard to his helmet.

This team was buried in April, we are just waiting for the last rites.

This team is boring, and I cant remember a game where the team even looked like they were interested.

Every member of this board knew during spring training that the bullpen needed fixing. Well they didnt fix it, and this is what you get.

Why doesnt he go to a nail salon and get a gel nail. They are practically indestructible. Have to get them ground off. Wasnt it AJ burnett that used to use a gel nail.

Toronto always has problems getting free agents to sign here. They are probably going to be less inclined, when they look at a team that might be in the midst of a rebuild. Although I do like your idea.

Every fan wants a team that is consistently good year in and year out. Residing in the AL east with the sox and Yankees, doesn't make that as simple as say the AL west. But the question is, not if a rebuild was coming, but when. If Shapiro has decided that this is a holding year with a vague shot at the WC, then it was simply a waste of a year. The question now is, will Shapiro be the guy that can do the rebuild. If his bullpen is any example, I would be worried. If a rebuild and a supposed rush of top prospects via trade is the hope, then he should have just started it. He should have done what Cashman has done, and told the fans, we have to do this, and here is our plan for the future. Those bandwagon fans that most on this board hate, will be gone, but they will come back somewhere down the road. The real worry for this Jays organization is the older long time fans that have stuck with this team for 20 years of ineptitude. If this rebuild takes ten years, they will be gone, and will not be back as they don't have time. This is not as simple as filling the farm system and trading off what assets this team has.

Someone, we dont know who sent a drone overour culdesac, an hour later, three cars and a garage were broken into.

They are going to finish last, no problem. But whomever they fire is not responsible for this mess.

Next will be someone getting fired, which wont help.

I am old enough. Plus. But this team has a sick feeling about it, and has had it since day one.

This could go down as one of the worst days in jays history.

Thx

could someone give the score pls.

MLB seems to think that if they shorten the game, it will attract new fans. That it will get those fans that have the attention span of a gnat and cant possibly spend two or three hours enjoying something. But cutting 8-10minutes from a game wont make a bit of difference. What will keep fans flocking to the game is to invest their time and money into youth baseball. Make it so reasonable that every kid can afford it. Build little league parks everywhere. Help families with the price of the equipmant. If kids play they will become fans.

But now, that there is still a shot at a wildcard, you think they should throw it away? There is never a guarantee of anything when it comes to playoff spots and you know that. If that was really the case, then they should have gone into the winter selling every asset they had. Why can't Shapiro do both? By signing Bautista, they are taking a chance, but it is only money. Yes, they will lose a draft pick that you might not see at the majors ever. But it also will give them a chance to add some offense that they have lost. Shouldn't he be trying to build the very best team that he can put on the field right now? Unless they are throwing in the towel, and going to rebuild, which there has been no indication that they are doing, it is his job to try and get this team back to the playoffs. And that is my point right from the beginning.

and my opinion has not changed. but didn't see any bashing there.

Show me where I bashed anyone. What I said then was, the same thing that I am saying now. You can not run your club always sending off your stars, in the hope that the "prospects" will somehow be better. I agreed with what AA did. Did I see that this would happen. Of course, anyone can look at a farm system that was decimated and know that the day of reckoning was coming. But the question was two years ago and the same question applies now. Was it worth it? The prospect whores won't agree, they never do. There is a sense to this board that we will keep building and building to get those non stop elusive years and years of contention. You don't think every single team in baseball wouldn't like that? But ask the fans that were at those games. Ask the sponsors who saw the ratings through the roof. Ask anyone that caught the excitement of the Jays for the first time. And although most on this board don't give anyone but themselves credit for understanding what exactly was being done to achieve that success, they were willing to pay the price. Would we be better to have never made any of AA's trades and not had the previous two years? We would have some very good pieces of course, but could we beat the Indians or the Red Sox this year? Would any of those new fans, say, no, I would rather wait for three to five years. No one can say for sure. Not even the experts. I said at the beginning of this, that there will be a shitstorm and nothing has changed. I don't like Shapiro and never made any secret of it. Did he get lucky with a few pieces, Bagnini etc. Of course, everyone does. But I have not complained about what he has done so far. And I did not say that I would be part of the shitstorm. This team still has a chance this year, and as far as I am concerned, what Shapiro has done so far is not good enough. If you think it is, so be it. At the end of the offseason, everyone can judge for themselves.

where in my first posting did I say that I even wanted Bautista or Encarnacion. What I said was there was going to be a shitstorm if Shatkins allows this team to become irrelevant while becoming younger. And that statement is absolutely correct. Of course the team needs to become younger. Every team except the red sox needs to become younger. But younger does not always mean better. If younger and supposedly better is what this team wants, then they should have done what the Yankees have done and told their fans, this team is unsustainable and this is what we are going to do about it. Unfortunately all those thousands of new fans that have come along, will disappear. There are enough pieces still on this team that they have at least one more run in them with some additions. And so far none of the additions have been impressive. Pearce, Smoak ?? There have been no additions to the bullpen, which is sorely lacking and the outfield looks desolate. Will it improve before the off season is over, I hope so. While the team is waiting 3-5 years to perhaps (no guarantee) to become relevant again, the seniors and middle age fans approx. 20,000 per game that supported this team will have died or moved on. Now you have no middle aged nor young fans and they will be starting from the start to try and build a fan base. I actually for the record did not want Encarnacion back, but they made a mistake not signing him when his price dropped so low. As far as Bautista, I believe that he should be signed to a one year contract at a little over QO, to assuage his ego. IMO he will have a bigger year this year than EE. Then if they come the break and they are out of it, go all in. But they won't be stocking the upper echelons of the farm, they will probably be starting near the bottom.

Pardon me? I thought this was a message board. Just because you don't like my opinion and I am not one of those slathering over Shatkins, doesn't mean I haven't a clue about how baseball teams are built. If you don't like my opinion, dispute it, otherwise, bug off.

Jays are losing both, no matter the semantics. If the new regime that allows a team that was twice a step away from the world series to drift off into irrelevance again because they want to get younger, they should be in a shitstorm. I know this board loves them and what they are doing, but the goal for any team is to make the playoffs, then the world series and hopefully win one. And so far their moves are less than impressive towards that goal.

Merry Christmas to everyone that is a fan of baseball and the Jays. Give your loved ones an extra hug today!!!

Shapiro said yesterday on PTS, that they all sat down with their stat guys, and everyone had input.