Blue Jays (Gausman) vs Red Sox (Suarez): 7/26/26, 1:35pm

[Jays24]

5 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

Where do those things rank v. having the worst offense in baseball?

It could have helped if JS tried moving Springer and Vlad down in the order temporarily or anything to get a different result.  

Having the worst offense in baseball would be an Atkins problem for not doing enough to improve on that end but we all know you wont blame him either.  This offense has been abysmal for 3.5 out of the past 4 years...

[Mr. Lahey]

14 minutes ago, Jays24 said:

It could have helped if JS tried moving Springer and Vlad down in the order temporarily or anything to get a different result.  

Having the worst offense in baseball would be an Atkins problem for not doing enough to improve on that end but we all know you wont blame him either.  This offense has been abysmal for 3.5 out of the past 4 years...

This. We can talk all day about pitching but if they keep hitting like this, they won’t win squat.

[hanton]

I don't quite understand what this means, maybe it would help if we knew the question?

why didn't they try and extend him then? unless he just wants to play this out and retire - but that's not good for us

[decosabute]

37 minutes ago, Jays24 said:

It could have helped if JS tried moving Springer and Vlad down in the order temporarily or anything to get a different result.  

Having the worst offense in baseball would be an Atkins problem for not doing enough to improve on that end but we all know you wont blame him either.  This offense has been abysmal for 3.5 out of the past 4 years...

We definitely needed another bat this past offseason and it's not hindsight - Atkins and co. were signalling as much in the winter when they went big to try to get Kyle Tucker. They knew it already then, so it's fair to say that we probably went in a little short in that department. But at some point, no front office or manager can legislate for the kind of insane black hole so many of our players have gone into. It's fair to say that six of our most dangerous hitters have either been at their career worst, or injured, or in Kirk's case, both. To have that many heavy hitters (Springer, Vlad, Kirk, Varsho, Barger, Santander) simultaneously go into the toilet, and/or the IL, is absolutely INSANE. There is no planning for it and not a whole hell of a lot you can do with it. 

I think it's also a little bit disingenuous to say that our offense was only good for a half season out of the last four. In 2022 the offense was high up in runs scored in all of MLB. In 2023 it was more average, but not terrible. 2024 sucked, granted, but 2025 we won the division, and were 4th in runs scored in the regular season, followed by absolutely exploding when it really counted in October. So I'd say it's really only two of the last five seasons (if we then include this one) where the offense has truly been "abysmal".

Also, I think that accusing Schneider of not moving Springer or Vlad is really picking at borderline irrelevant stuff. Those two have flat out sucked, but firstly, that's not the manager's fault. And secondly, almost everyone else has sucked too, so it's not like he was drowning in great options for leadoff or no. 3 hitters. Vlad and George were not suddenly going to have 1.000 OPSs just because you moved them down the order. I honestly don't think it would've made much or any difference. 

[DownSouthBlueJay]

We prolly dodged a bullet with Kyle Tucker.Almost had another overpaid bum lol

[Stangstag]

3 minutes ago, DownSouthBlueJay said:

We prolly dodged a bullet with Kyle Tucker

Likely, yeah lol. Always thought him getting anything close to 300mil was crazy talk. 

[G-Snarls]

16 minutes ago, Stangstag said:

Likely, yeah lol. Always thought him getting anything close to 300mil was crazy talk. 

101 wRC+ and 0.9 fWAR so far this year 

I mean he'll have better seasons than that but they're paying him like the perennial 4-5 WAR player he used to be and he might never be that again. 

[decosabute]

6 minutes ago, DownSouthBlueJay said:

We prolly dodged a bullet with Kyle Tucker.Almost had another overpaid bum lol

True.

But the point was more that it's valid to say (not hindsight) that we could've done with one more big bat, and that the Front Office seemed to at least partly feel that way too.

[Stangstag]

1 minute ago, G-Snarls said:

101 wRC+ and 0.9 fWAR so far this year 

I mean he'll have better seaaons than that but they're paying like the perennial 4-5 WAR player he used to be and he might never be that again. 

 

2 minutes ago, G-Snarls said:

101 wRC+ and 0.9 fWAR so far this year 

I mean he'll have better seaaons than that but they're paying like the perennial 4-5 WAR player he used to be and he might never be that again. 

Imagine having both him and Vlad locked up, and not even knowing if you can rely on either of them anymore in year 1 of 10 loll

we were very close to paying 70mil per year for Vlad+Tucker for the next 10 years

[metafour]

50 minutes ago, Jays24 said:

This offense has been abysmal for 3.5 out of the past 4 years...

Sorry bud, but this is categorically false.

From January 1st. 2022 to today (ie: 2022 to 2026); the Jays are:

6th in team wRC+ (107)

12th in runs scored (3405)

2nd in team BA (.255)

3rd in team OBP (.323)

8th in team SLG (.411)

And those stats obviously include this year's comically bad offense.

Clearly Atkins should have foresaw that Guerrero was going to follow up his elite 2025 postseason performance by putting up his worst season ever (by a long margin), and the remainder of the core position players would all either get hurt, or regress comically.

The only way for Atkins to prevent what you have seen so far would have been for him to replace ~80% of the hitters from last year's WS team. Wow, I can't believe he didn't have to foresight to plan for this happening!

Its just a lost s*** season, genius. It happens. In fact, the post World Series slump in baseball is absurd. From 1999 to 2024, 12 of the 25 teams that WON the World Series failed to make the playoffs the very next season. This type of poor season isn't even an outlier. In 2023 the Rangers won the WS, and in 2024 they didn't even make the playoffs. The same thing happened to the 2020 Nationals.

In 2025 the team got hot and everything clicked. This year, nothing has gone right. Both from an injury perspective, or from the perspective of players playing up to their ability. And no, Vladimir Guerrero hitting for a sub 100 wRC+ for most of the season was not a reasonable expectation for anyone.

[Brownie19]

29 minutes ago, metafour said:

Sorry bud, but this is categorically false.

From January 1st. 2022 to today (ie: 2022 to 2026); the Jays are:

6th in team wRC+ (107)

12th in runs scored (3405)

2nd in team BA (.255)

3rd in team OBP (.323)

8th in team SLG (.411)

And those stats obviously include this year's comically bad offense.

Clearly Atkins should have foresaw that Guerrero was going to follow up his elite 2025 postseason performance by putting up his worst season ever (by a long margin), and the remainder of the core position players would all either get hurt, or regress comically.

The only way for Atkins to prevent what you have seen so far would have been for him to replace ~80% of the hitters from last year's WS team. Wow, I can't believe he didn't have to foresight to plan for this happening!

Its just a lost s*** season, genius. It happens. In fact, the post World Series slump in baseball is absurd. From 1999 to 2024, 12 of the 25 teams that WON the World Series failed to make the playoffs the very next season. This type of poor season isn't even an outlier. In 2023 the Rangers won the WS, and in 2024 they didn't even make the playoffs. The same thing happened to the 2020 Nationals.

In 2025 the team got hot and everything clicked. This year, nothing has gone right. Both from an injury perspective, or from the perspective of players playing up to their ability. And no, Vladimir Guerrero hitting for a sub 100 wRC+ for most of the season was not a reasonable expectation for anyone.

[Jays24]

43 minutes ago, metafour said:

Sorry bud, but this is categorically false.

From January 1st. 2022 to today (ie: 2022 to 2026); the Jays are:

6th in team wRC+ (107)

12th in runs scored (3405)

2nd in team BA (.255)

3rd in team OBP (.323)

8th in team SLG (.411)

And those stats obviously include this year's comically bad offense.

Clearly Atkins should have foresaw that Guerrero was going to follow up his elite 2025 postseason performance by putting up his worst season ever (by a long margin), and the remainder of the core position players would all either get hurt, or regress comically.

The only way for Atkins to prevent what you have seen so far would have been for him to replace ~80% of the hitters from last year's WS team. Wow, I can't believe he didn't have to foresight to plan for this happening!

Its just a lost s*** season, genius. It happens. In fact, the post World Series slump in baseball is absurd. From 1999 to 2024, 12 of the 25 teams that WON the World Series failed to make the playoffs the very next season. This type of poor season isn't even an outlier. In 2023 the Rangers won the WS, and in 2024 they didn't even make the playoffs. The same thing happened to the 2020 Nationals.

In 2025 the team got hot and everything clicked. This year, nothing has gone right. Both from an injury perspective, or from the perspective of players playing up to their ability. And no, Vladimir Guerrero hitting for a sub 100 wRC+ for most of the season was not a reasonable expectation for anyone.

I meant 3.5 years from 2023 until now.  Im not counting 2022 when we were obviously good.  Not sure how you and the other person both stated 2022 in your responses lol.  

Feel free to tell me that we were a good offensive team in 2023/2024, around half of 2025 and then all of this season.  

[Laika]

1 hour ago, hanton said:

I don't quite understand what this means, maybe it would help if we knew the question?

why didn't they try and extend him then? unless he just wants to play this out and retire - but that's not good for us

I would jump all over a two year extension 

He's basically the same SP he was two years ago. The higher ERA this year is probably random. 

[jaysblue]

Re-sign Gausman to a two-year/$40M deal. I think he would accept and I would take that.

3.68 FIP/.3.87xFIP so no different than he was last season to be honest. Obviously the stretch since June 2nd he's been on is a bit worrisome, but today was encouraging at least and even his start on July 12th vs. the Padres. You're still likely to get a 3-4 WAR season out of him which is still very good, especially at that term and AAV. 

Go out this offseason and try to bring in another 1A or #2 behind Cease, which slides Gausman down to your #3 and then Yesavage and Ponce occupy the last two spots. I'm also sure Miles figures himself in there somewhere with injuries at some point, so he's nice depth to have as a swing-man/bulk innings guy. 

[Jonn]

I’m all in favour of bringing Guasman back. Right now the focus needs to be extracting as much value out of Gausman, Bieber, Springer, Varsho, and potentially Hoffman as possible.

[VladdyAlomar]

🤡

[G-Snarls]

35 minutes ago, Laika said:

I would jump all over a two year extension 

He's basically the same SP he was two years ago. The higher ERA this year is probably random. 

Agreed 

He likes it here 

And we probably can't relace that performance for anywhere near the price he might accept right now 

[Stangstag]

12 minutes ago, G-Snarls said:

Agreed 

He likes it here 

And we probably can't relace that performance for anywhere near the price he might accept right now 

Would be nice if he accepted a trade to a contender and then agreed to sign back in the offseason.

[G-Snarls]

37 minutes ago, Stangstag said:

Would be nice if he accepted a trade to a contender and then agreed to sign back in the offseason.

Would be an ideal result for sure but can't guarantee anything 

Extending him now and guaranteeing him he won't be traded might save you money too 

[glory]

37 minutes ago, Stangstag said:

Would be nice if he accepted a trade to a contender and then agreed to sign back in the offseason.

Yeah no issues with bringing Gausman back, but he might be the best SP traded this deadline depending on what happens with Skubal. They'd be foolish not to trade him unless the offers are crap. If they are, then just extend him now and be done with it. We don't need more McAdoo's and Schreck's that badly. The returns have to be better than good. 

[Bob_Gratton]

1 hour ago, jaysblue said:

Re-sign Gausman to a two-year/$40M deal. I think he would accept and I would take that.

3.68 FIP/.3.87xFIP so no different than he was last season to be honest. Obviously the stretch since June 2nd he's been on is a bit worrisome, but today was encouraging at least and even his start on July 12th vs. the Padres. You're still likely to get a 3-4 WAR season out of him which is still very good, especially at that term and AAV. 

Go out this offseason and try to bring in another 1A or #2 behind Cease, which slides Gausman down to your #3 and then Yesavage and Ponce occupy the last two spots. I'm also sure Miles figures himself in there somewhere with injuries at some point, so he's nice depth to have as a swing-man/bulk innings guy. 

For 2028 and 2029? If yes, this will be to be the #4 starter.

[Bob_Gratton]

1 minute ago, glory said:

Yeah no issues with bringing Gausman back, but he might be the best SP traded this deadline depending on what happens with Skubal. They'd be foolish not to trade him unless the offers are crap. If they are, then just extend him now and be done with it. We don't need more McAdoo's and Schreck's that badly. The returns have to be better than good. 

Mets will want trade Peralta. Jays should try get him, even if he didn't have his best season.

[Bob_Gratton]

3 hours ago, G-Snarls said:

IDK this is ridiculous

Little, Corbin and Fischer are awful. Everytime JS use them, they allow runs. Do Yariel Rodriguez deceased?  I am asking coz he can't be worst than Little, Fischer, Van Eyk or Corbin, but he didn't get another chance .

[Bob_Gratton]

1 hour ago, Jonn said:

I’m all in favour of bringing Guasman back. Right now the focus needs to be extracting as much value out of Gausman, Bieber, Springer, Varsho, and potentially Hoffman as possible.

Even Rogers if 2027 cancelled

[Brownie19]

1 hour ago, Jays24 said:

I meant 3.5 years from 2023 until now.  Im not counting 2022 when we were obviously good.  Not sure how you and the other person both stated 2022 in your responses lol.  

Feel free to tell me that we were a good offensive team in 2023/2024, around half of 2025 and then all of this season.  

I'll do it.  From 2023 to now, the Jays are:

9th in team wRC+ (104)

16th in runs scored (2630)

6th in team BA (.252)

9th in team OBP (.321)

12th in team SLG (.406)

This is still an above average offensive team, so his point still stands - ALL of it.

[Bob_Gratton]

2 hours ago, hanton said:

I don't quite understand what this means, maybe it would help if we knew the question?

why didn't they try and extend him then? unless he just wants to play this out and retire - but that's not good for us

He want stay in Toronto, he like the team and the city. If he agree for a short term contract and to be #3 or #4  in the Jays SP order, Atkins should sign him

[Jays24]

15 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

I'll do it.  From 2023 to now, the Jays are:

9th in team wRC+ (104)

16th in runs scored (2630)

6th in team BA (.252)

9th in team OBP (.321)

12th in team SLG (.406)

This is still an above average offensive team, so his point still stands - ALL of it.

No, their points dont stand.  We have been trying to win a damn world series, not just scrape by to get into the wild card with results like those.

- The 2023 team was painful to watch as we struggled to score runs to be a serious contender.  Everyone expected exactly the way our season ended by losing 2 games by scoring like 1 run. 

- 2024 was a pathetic year in general where we had to sell at the deadline and guys like Vladdy turned it up when the Jays were well out of it.

- 2025 started off slow until the Bichette HR and the rest was magical.  

-2026 entire season has been a slog. 

Only you would consider the results from our offense a success when we are in our "winning years" with a top 5 payroll.  Improve your damn standards man lol.  

[max silver]

3 hours ago, Jays24 said:

It could have helped if JS tried moving Springer and Vlad down in the order temporarily or anything to get a different result.  

Having the worst offense in baseball would be an Atkins problem for not doing enough to improve on that end but we all know you wont blame him either.  This offense has been abysmal for 3.5 out of the past 4 years...

I don't know how you can blame Atkins for the offense when it was MLB's best offense for the final 6 months of last season including the post season, and the major change was essentially switching out Bichette for Okamoto. 

[Jays24]

If Gausman loves Toronto so much, he wont mind being a rental for 2 months while we reload in the offseason.  It would be stupid to keep him right now when we're lacking in overall talent.  

[max silver]

34 minutes ago, glory said:

Yeah no issues with bringing Gausman back, but he might be the best SP traded this deadline depending on what happens with Skubal. They'd be foolish not to trade him unless the offers are crap. If they are, then just extend him now and be done with it. We don't need more McAdoo's and Schreck's that badly. The returns have to be better than good. 

I'd be cool with bringing both Gausman and Bieber back to round out next year's rotation. It would be great if the front office aims higher for Skubal but I think he's going to be a very tough sign.