Around Baseball 2025

[Spanky__99]

2 hours ago, Brownie19 said:

You're spot on with this.  We believe we just had a conversation about what was wrong with him and one of the logical discussion points was that perhaps he just wasn't as good as originally expected.  Perfectly legitimate discussion for a message board to have.

I don't get people trying to dunk on others like it was this forgone conclusion he was one of the best pitchers in baseball.

April 11th 2024, you'll notice a certain poster not say a thing at the time, just asked you if Atkins paid you to post on this message board... lol
 

You, Org, Laika and BTS are under fire, lmao

 

[BTS]

3 hours ago, Brownie19 said:

You're spot on with this.  We believe we just had a conversation about what was wrong with him and one of the logical discussion points was that perhaps he just wasn't as good as originally expected.  Perfectly legitimate discussion for a message board to have.

I don't get people trying to dunk on others like it was this forgone conclusion he was one of the best pitchers in baseball.

There are a small handful of posters who seem to think you shouldn't update your opinion of players as new information comes in. Maybe, like, 20% of the league is consistently good, year after year. 

[connorp2]

I was merely marveling at my own clairvoyance in the matter. I wasn’t expending any energy on thinking about what you guys may have thought. 

[BatFlip]

16 hours ago, jaysblue said:

I don't consider myself an Orioles fanboy, though might have come across as one here previously. Always said they had a young and exciting core and I still think they do. As for their front office complementing that young core, they've done a very poor job to date and are wasting these prime years of having guys like Gunnar and Rutchman under club control. Definitely fumbling their opportunity to be perennial contenders. 

Makes you appreciate the ownership we have here in Toronto. At least we know Rogers will give the green light to spend on high end elite talent through free agency. 

Overall, I will accept my tarring and feathering in regards to the Orioles. 

 

I can respect that. 

I was so tired of the Mike Elias Fan Club the last couple years rampaging through our threads - now they've all gone scurrying away when the 'most perfect rebuild' of all time crashes and burns.

You my friend, have at least accepted your tar and feathers, like a real man.

 

 

 

 

 

[BatFlip]

16 hours ago, BTS said:

Came in here to clown on the Orioles after a busy weekend, and happy to see the Terminator has been doing the needful. This might be the biggest ego check in MLB history - imaging thinking your brain was so much bigger than everyone else's that you just didn't need a rotation. 

[jaysblue]

Must be awful weather in Minny. Two PPD games in a row yesterday and now today. Plus they still have to continue a suspended game from Monday lol. 

[Brownie19]

Who saw Geraldo Perdomo being 4th in the majors (offensively) in WAR at this point in the season?  Doubt the improvements with the bat are completely sustainable, but he may be developing into a star player at age 25. 

[glory]

Yeah say what you want about Shatkins, but they started spending as soon as Vlad and Bo came up. What the FO lacked in player development, they made up for with FA signings and trades. Of course, Elias is a lot better on the player development side, but clearly not on the pitching end, and that's where they needed to invest heavily. The Jays did that and got some good seasons out of it despite their two stars collectively (more so Vlad) not living up to the hype most of the time. The O's not spending on SP the last two years was a major fumble. 

[connorp2]

31 minutes ago, glory said:

Yeah say what you want about Shatkins, but they started spending as soon as Vlad and Bo came up. What the FO lacked in player development, they made up for with FA signings and trades. Of course, Elias is a lot better on the player development side, but clearly not on the pitching end, and that's where they needed to invest heavily. The Jays did that and got some good seasons out of it despite their two stars collectively (more so Vlad) not living up to the hype most of the time. The O's not spending on SP the last two years was a major fumble. 

There’s no major fumble. Just bad luck. They acquired Burnes last year and had a great season. It’s easy to look at it now and say it’s bad. They had a setback on Grayson and Bradish is coming along slower than ideal. This year, it was supposed to be Bradish, Grayson, Elfin. That’s a legit contender 1-3. Hypothetically, if they signed Burnes and had a Top 4 on paper with anyone in baseball, what difference would it be making right now? You guys are quick to dump on SD type teams when things don’t click one year but then you go quiet when it’s clear their long term plan and development in much better than the Jays and their “defense wins games” philosophy 

[Brownie19]

KC continues to defy the odds.  4 games over .500 with just 2 hitters above league average and one of them is Garcia, who's hit like Ryan Goins the past 2 years (69 wRC+ in over 600 PA).  Sal Perez has been awful - he's due to fall off a cliff at any point.  This can't be sustainable.

[Orgfiller]

31 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

KC continues to defy the odds.  4 games over .500 with just 2 hitters above league average and one of them is Garcia, who's hit like Ryan Goins the past 2 years (69 wRC+ in over 600 PA).  Sal Perez has been awful - he's due to fall off a cliff at any point.  This can't be sustainable.

In Salvy's defense, he's been brutally unlucky, even for an old immobile catcher. He's underperforming his xWOBA by 100 points, .250 wOBA vs .350 xWOBA. Maikel Garcia was always an exit velo darling, and had pedigree as a top 100 prospect who plays good defense all over the field.

The Royals formula is similar to last season's. They have a superstar in Bobby Witt Jr., a secondary good hitter, and just elite SPs. Bubic emerged this season as an ace to go along with Ragans, Wacha and Lugo (who's been only okay thus far) round out a rock solid top 4 and Lorenzen has been good for them as well. They also added Erceg late last season and Carlos Estevez over the offseason to solidify the back end of their BP and it's doing wonders.

Honestly kind of a model mid/small market team. Once Witt broke out they supplemented him via trade and shrewd signings. These smaller market teams can be players in free agency too!

[Spanky__99]

2 hours ago, Brownie19 said:

Who saw Geraldo Perdomo being 4th in the majors (offensively) in WAR at this point in the season?  Doubt the improvements with the bat are completely sustainable, but he may be developing into a star player at age 25. 

Damn right, I have. 🤪

[Spanky__99]

2 hours ago, connorp2 said:

There’s no major fumble. Just bad luck. They acquired Burnes last year and had a great season. It’s easy to look at it now and say it’s bad. They had a setback on Grayson and Bradish is coming along slower than ideal. This year, it was supposed to be Bradish, Grayson, Elfin. That’s a legit contender 1-3. Hypothetically, if they signed Burnes and had a Top 4 on paper with anyone in baseball, what difference would it be making right now? You guys are quick to dump on SD type teams when things don’t click one year but then you go quiet when it’s clear their long term plan and development in much better than the Jays and their “defense wins games” philosophy 

 

[Brownie19]

1 hour ago, Orgfiller said:

In Salvy's defense, he's been brutally unlucky, even for an old immobile catcher. He's underperforming his xWOBA by 100 points, .250 wOBA vs .350 xWOBA. Maikel Garcia was always an exit velo darling, and had pedigree as a top 100 prospect who plays good defense all over the field.

The Royals formula is similar to last season's. They have a superstar in Bobby Witt Jr., a secondary good hitter, and just elite SPs. Bubic emerged this season as an ace to go along with Ragans, Wacha and Lugo (who's been only okay thus far) round out a rock solid top 4 and Lorenzen has been good for them as well. They also added Erceg late last season and Carlos Estevez over the offseason to solidify the back end of their BP and it's doing wonders.

Honestly kind of a model mid/small market team. Once Witt broke out they supplemented him via trade and shrewd signings. These smaller market teams can be players in free agency too!

They were gifted Regans and Erceg for absolutely nothing.  I can't decide if those were shrewd moves or just plain stupidity by the Rangers and A's.  Probably a bit of both.  I guess kudos to KC for developing/tweaking them?

The fact Garcia got 600+ PA's in a season they made the playoffs tells you all you need to know about their offense.  If you look under the hood, the breakout may be somewhat real, but it's not like he was even that good in the minors.  I guess we'll see!

[connorp2]

40 minutes ago, Spanky99 said:

 

Yes. This is the typical reaction when someone presents an original thought outside of herd mentality. Don’t feel bad

[Spanky__99]

44 minutes ago, connorp2 said:

Yes. This is the typical reaction when someone presents an original thought outside of herd mentality. Don’t feel bad

 

Quote

• You guys are quick to dump on SD type teams when things don’t click one year but then you go quiet when it’s clear their long term plan and development in much better than the Jays and their “defense wins games” philosophy 

19 minutes ago, Spanky99 said:

Nice wide brush you stroke, meat... *Hey you guys gif insert*

What the f*ck does any of what we're talking about have to do with the Jays 3 foot? Elias thought he was the big brain in the room, and didn't use the resources that ownership said they had, and he absolutely dropped the ball this offseason, I hope he gets fired, the asshat is more games under .500 17 than the team has Wins on May 21st, I hope he gets canned for it. 

You, as the atypical contrarian you're white knighting for them, your act is stale, there's no thinking out of the box from you, it's just verbal diarrhea, ya dingleberry! 

PS: Suck a Fart.

Herd mentality... You're such a bird, lmao. 🦤

[Orgfiller]

32 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

They were gifted Regans and Erceg for absolutely nothing.  I can't decide if those were shrewd moves or just plain stupidity by the Rangers and A's.  Probably a bit of both.  I guess kudos to KC for developing/tweaking them?

The fact Garcia got 600+ PA's in a season they made the playoffs tells you all you need to know about their offense.  If you look under the hood, the breakout may be somewhat real, but it's not like he was even that good in the minors.  I guess we'll see!

I wouldn't really say nothing, Ragans was essentially gifted in retrospect, but the price was Aroldis Chapman whom they shrewdly signed coming off a down season in his last Yankees year. He was elite for them and they capitalized by sending him to the contending Rangers, who then would go on to win the WS in some part thanks to his contributions. That's just smart business all around by the Royals.

For Erceg, they approached a non contending A's team and sent a couple of 40-45 FV guys in return for him. Standard RP business, sometimes the prospects work and sometimes they don't. Good evaluation on their end to ensure they didn't lose anyone they would regret, although it's probably too early to make such claims.

Like I said for Garcia, he was a heralded prospect who contributed in other ways while showing promise under the hood. What you might see as mediocre MiLB performance is a guy that was always young for the level staying afloat with solid K/BB, excellent baserunning and defense, and probably some encouraging EV numbers that they were privvy to. He was still a 1-2 win player in his first two MLB seasons at ages 23 and 24 with promise, not a guy you give up on quickly.

[Terminator]

3 hours ago, connorp2 said:

There’s no major fumble. Just bad luck. They acquired Burnes last year and had a great season. It’s easy to look at it now and say it’s bad. They had a setback on Grayson and Bradish is coming along slower than ideal. This year, it was supposed to be Bradish, Grayson, Elfin. That’s a legit contender 1-3. Hypothetically, if they signed Burnes and had a Top 4 on paper with anyone in baseball, what difference would it be making right now? You guys are quick to dump on SD type teams when things don’t click one year but then you go quiet when it’s clear their long term plan and development in much better than the Jays and their “defense wins games” philosophy 

^Orioles Fanboy still clinging on to his last shred of hope

You'd be better off taking a page out of jaysblue's book and completely disavowing any past Orioles fanboying while apologizing on top of it  

[Laika]

"just bad luck"

Tomoyuki Sugano
Charlie Morton
Kyle Gibson
Cole Irvin
Albert Suarez
Cody Poteet 
Trevor Rogers
Luis F. Castillo

Some of the slop the Orioles have brought in to start games in the last 2/3 years, while everyone who watches baseball, O's fans and haters alike, screamed at them to invest in bankable SP. 

Mike Elias milked 1.4 WAR out of Suarez last year, then read all his fan fiction on the BJMB, and thought he had solved baseball. 

[Terminator]

That Trevor Rogers trade....yikes

I get moving Norby and Stowers, they had a plethora of good position prospects and they should have moved some.

But Rogers isn't even good when he's healthy, and he's almost never healthy.

[BatFlip]

39 minutes ago, Terminator said:

^Orioles Fanboy still clinging on to his last shred of hope

You'd be better off taking a page out of jaysblue's book and completely disavowing any past Orioles fanboying while apologizing on top of it  

Jaysblue took his tar and feathers like a man of honor and went out on his shield. 

I'm not even sure Connorp Fanboy is worthy of the tar and feathers.  He is more troll than man to be honest, even with all the botox.

 

[connorp2]

47 minutes ago, Laika said:

"just bad luck"

Tomoyuki Sugano
Charlie Morton
Kyle Gibson
Cole Irvin
Albert Suarez
Cody Poteet 
Trevor Rogers
Luis F. Castillo

Some of the slop the Orioles have brought in to start games in the last 2/3 years, while everyone who watches baseball, O's fans and haters alike, screamed at them to invest in bankable SP. 

Mike Elias milked 1.4 WAR out of Suarez last year, then read all his fan fiction on the BJMB, and thought he had solved baseball. 

Hey dick face (hopefully I can dish out a couple names after taking it), what don’t you understand about Bradish, Grayson, Eflin 

How many teams have a sexy list #4 and down?

Guys like Kremer, Poteet, old man Morton., that’s legit guys on a #4 and down depth chart. 
 

Get your head out of where the sun doesn’t shine 

[Laika]

15 minutes ago, connorp2 said:

Hey dick face (hopefully I can dish out a couple names after taking it), what don’t you understand about Bradish, Grayson, Eflin 

How many teams have a sexy list #4 and down?

Guys like Kremer, Poteet, old man Morton., that’s legit guys on a #4 and down depth chart. 
 

Get your head out of where the sun doesn’t shine 

Grayson is a kid who had shoulder problems last year
Bradish literally had TJS and was known to be out for most of this year
Eflin has never eaten innings, had shoulder problems in 2024 and chronic knee issues for years in Philly 

Those are nice names if you are putting together a 10 man rotation like the Dodgers. Glass cannon tactics. 

Not really smart to put them ahead of seven Kyle Gibsons, though. That's just asking for exactly what happened to the Orioles this year. 

When your injury prone and high-risk SP get hurt, you can't call it bad luck. 

[Orgfiller]

Another aspect where the Orioles really fumbled it isn't even in that they didn't want to spend at all on their roster, but how they spent the money was a terrible use of resources. Sugano + Morton alone combine for a $28M commitment. Tyler O'Neill who lives on the IL is at $16.5M AAV. Andrew Kittredge is $10M, that's the same money that Aroldis Chapman got!

So not only did they not leverage their prospect capital and acquire SPs with pedigree, they spent it all on a bunch of old, injury prone, and in some cases (Sugano) unproven players without much upside. Just a gross misuse of resources all around.

[jaysblue]

3 hours ago, Spanky99 said:

Damn right, I have. 🤪

Leading your DDL team to a 78-15 record thus far!

[Spanky__99]

Adley and O's actually did something today, wow!

[Spanky__99]

2 hours ago, Terminator said:

^Orioles Fanboy still clinging on to his last shred of hope

You'd be better off taking a page out of jaysblue's book and completely disavowing any past Orioles fanboying while apologizing on top of it  

Meh, jaysblue just has no spine. Made of jelly.

[Laika]

Kirk > Rutschman 

and younger 

[Terminator]

7 minutes ago, Laika said:

Kirk > Rutschman 

and younger 

5'3'' 285 pound meatball vs. a 6'2'' 230 pound body builder and the meatball is the better player

What a sport

[Brownie19]

Is Jordan Walker fixable at this point?  Surely he needs a change of scenery?  

I was looking at the "swing speed" leaderboard on Baseball Savant and #2, #3 and #4 are Caminero, Walker and Adell and none of those guys are hitting well at all.  I wonder if there's any correlation.  #1 and #5 are Oneill Cruz and Schwarber, so obviously swinging hard can work, but I wonder if we'll learn that some batters produce better by swinging at 90% of their max to increase their control of the barrel.  

My research on this is clearly incomplete.