Jays Acquiring Andres Gimenez

[Eat My Shatkins]

On 4/3/2025 at 5:21 PM, Eat My Shatkins said:

I wouldn't mind if they signed Varsho to a fair extension as well. He's young enough and provides stud CF defense and a league average bat, averaged about 3 fWAR per season for the last 3 seasons. Him, Kirk and Giminez could be a decent "up the middle" defensive trio to build around I think.

This is even better if Giminez is going to be the SS going forward, which I'm sure he will be. If he can put up a 90-95 wRC+ next season while playing SS he's probably good for 3-4 fWAR

[max silver]

54 minutes ago, Eat My Shatkins said:

This is even better if Giminez is going to be the SS going forward, which I'm sure he will be. If he can put up a 90-95 wRC+ next season while playing SS he's probably good for 3-4 fWAR

I think there's more in the bat. I believe Gimenez was hampered by the bad ankle for much of the season, and with a little better health he can unlock a little more juice out of the bat with a stronger base beneath him.

[max silver]

On 4/3/2025 at 5:37 PM, jaysblue said:

Calm down.

They're definitely nice pieces to have, but you don't expect your core to be players like Kirk, Gimenez and Varsho and expect to contend in the AL East lol. 

I'm all for extending Varsho at the right price, like how they did with Kirk. 

Seems like the team performed just fine to me with these players in the mix.

[L54]

On 12/10/2024 at 5:06 PM, BTS said:

I still love this post lolll

[jaysblue]

12 hours ago, max silver said:

Seems like the team performed just fine to me with these players in the mix.

Outside of Kirk, who was awesome all year long and bounced back in a big way offensively, which I said in one of my posts would be nice if he returned to his 2022 form, Varsho and Gimenez were "players in the mix" as you just said. 

Gimenez only posted 1 WAR with a 70 wRC+ in 101 games this season. Varsho posted a 2.2 WAR and 123 wRC+ in 71 games. Yes both were injured and missed time. Would have been interesting to see what Varsho would have done over a full season, though maintaining a .284 OBP isn't that encouraging.

So pretty much the team performed fine without Gimenez and Varsho for extended periods, thanks to other core players/arms like Vladdy, Bo, Springer, Kirk, and Gausman and some other "players in the mix."

Nothing against Gimenez and Varsho. I'm a big fan of both and they're easy plays to root for. As well, they're having a great Postseason contributing with gold glove defense and providing some surprising pop in big spots throughout their first 13 games of the Postseason. Over a full 162 game season however, you need other big contributors rather than just relying on guys like Gimenez and Varsho as your main pieces. 

 

[Stangstag]

13 hours ago, jaysblue said:

Outside of Kirk, who was awesome all year long and bounced back in a big way offensively, which I said in one of my posts would be nice if he returned to his 2022 form, Varsho and Gimenez were "players in the mix" as you just said. 

Gimenez only posted 1 WAR with a 70 wRC+ in 101 games this season. Varsho posted a 2.2 WAR and 123 wRC+ in 71 games. Yes both were injured and missed time. Would have been interesting to see what Varsho would have done over a full season, though maintaining a .284 OBP isn't that encouraging.

So pretty much the team performed fine without Gimenez and Varsho for extended periods, thanks to other core players/arms like Vladdy, Bo, Springer, Kirk, and Gausman and some other "players in the mix."

Nothing against Gimenez and Varsho. I'm a big fan of both and they're easy plays to root for. As well, they're having a great Postseason contributing with gold glove defense and providing some surprising pop in big spots throughout their first 13 games of the Postseason. Over a full 162 game season however, you need other big contributors rather than just relying on guys like Gimenez and Varsho as your main pieces. 

 

I agree with the premise of your post but I don’t understand how you can look at Varsho’s 2.2 WAR in 70 games and not think he’s a main piece?

[jaysblue]

8 hours ago, Stangstag said:

I agree with the premise of your post but I don’t understand how you can look at Varsho’s 2.2 WAR in 70 games and not think he’s a main piece?

He missed a lot of the season (most of April and two whole months in June and July). Blue Jays from June onwards were one of the hottest teams in baseball, so they were able to cover up his injury over the course of a 162 game season. 

Over a full season, I would expect some regression offensively with him given the low .OBP and over the course of 500 AB's, there is more of a chance to be in a prolonged slump than over 250. Also, last time he put up a 4+ WAR season was back in 2022. Will acknowledge that if Varsho is healthy and clicking on all cylinders, he can definitely get back to being a 4+ WAR player and can be a "main piece" on both sides of the ball. More upside than Gimenez IMO. 

As for Gimenez, like you said earlier, I think he's the Jays starting SS next season and moving forward. That was likely the plan from day one when the Jays acquired him. Atkins and the FO like to cover potential holes on the roster earlier rather than later, evident by a lot of their previous moves in the past. 

[John_Havok]

3 hours ago, jaysblue said:

He missed a lot of the season (most of April and two whole months in June and July). Blue Jays from June onwards were one of the hottest teams in baseball, so they were able to cover up his injury over the course of a 162 game season. 

Over a full season, I would expect some regression offensively with him given the low .OBP and over the course of 500 AB's, there is more of a chance to be in a prolonged slump than over 250. Also, last time he put up a 4+ WAR season was back in 2022. Will acknowledge that if Varsho is healthy and clicking on all cylinders, he can definitely get back to being a 4+ WAR player and can be a "main piece" on both sides of the ball. More upside than Gimenez IMO. 

As for Gimenez, like you said earlier, I think he's the Jays starting SS next season and moving forward. That was likely the plan from day one when the Jays acquired him. Atkins and the FO like to cover potential holes on the roster earlier rather than later, evident by a lot of their previous moves in the past. 

If both are healthy, there's no reason to expect anything less than their career norms. Whether or not the Jays were able to "cover up his injury" (or their injuries in this case) has no relevance on each player's expected performance. That's a credit to the Jays, not some indictment of the player and how unimportant they are. 

I know you weren't saying they were unimportant, that's for the other f***wits that think Varsho should have been traded at the deadline because they were winning without him

[Spanky__99]

1 hour ago, John_Havok said:

 

I know you weren't saying they were unimportant, that's for the other f***wits that think Varsho should have been traded at the deadline because they were winning without him

lol... did that happen? I can't remember that.

[max silver]

5 hours ago, jaysblue said:

He missed a lot of the season (most of April and two whole months in June and July). Blue Jays from June onwards were one of the hottest teams in baseball, so they were able to cover up his injury over the course of a 162 game season. 

Over a full season, I would expect some regression offensively with him given the low .OBP and over the course of 500 AB's, there is more of a chance to be in a prolonged slump than over 250. Also, last time he put up a 4+ WAR season was back in 2022. Will acknowledge that if Varsho is healthy and clicking on all cylinders, he can definitely get back to being a 4+ WAR player and can be a "main piece" on both sides of the ball. More upside than Gimenez IMO. 

As for Gimenez, like you said earlier, I think he's the Jays starting SS next season and moving forward. That was likely the plan from day one when the Jays acquired him. Atkins and the FO like to cover potential holes on the roster earlier rather than later, evident by a lot of their previous moves in the past. 

I think the new power is for real. Varsho has produced really similar overall numbers in the post season against higher quality pitching than he faced in the regular season. My only real concern with Daulton is the state of the surgically repaired shoulder in terms of throwing ability, but the arm strength was coming back later in the season and has looked much better in the post season.

[Orgfiller]

2 hours ago, max silver said:

I think the new power is for real. Varsho has produced really similar overall numbers in the post season against higher quality pitching than he faced in the regular season. My only real concern with Daulton is the state of the surgically repaired shoulder in terms of throwing ability, but the arm strength was coming back later in the season and has looked much better in the post season.

I honestly think if Varsho was forced to only throw left handed for the rest of his career that he'd still be one of the premier defenders in the sport. His range is otherworldly, in large part because he gets elite jumps consistently and often takes the best possible routes. We've seen his elite defensive instincts provide benefit even with a noodle arm e.g. in the playoffs in that long Leo Rivas single off the wall.

As long as the shoulder doesn't affect his hitting, he remains relatively healthy, and his legs don't dramatically decline, he'll be one of the best outfield defenders in the sport for a few more years to come, and a valuable 3+ WAR piece.

He's shown this season that the power is indeed legit, but I don't know how much I can buy that he's better than a ~105-110 wRC+ bat over a full season, in a good year. There's a lot of swing and miss and not great plate discipline tendencies. I hope he continues his all or nothing approach though. He's shown that the power can really play at this level even with a less than ideal general approach at the plate, and when he locks in on a pitch location he can do damage.

[jaysblue]

3 hours ago, max silver said:

I think the new power is for real. Varsho has produced really similar overall numbers in the post season against higher quality pitching than he faced in the regular season. My only real concern with Daulton is the state of the surgically repaired shoulder in terms of throwing ability, but the arm strength was coming back later in the season and has looked much better in the post season.

I'm hoping he could go all Kyle Schwarber with the bat power wise at some point. 

[Orgfiller]

2 minutes ago, jaysblue said:

I'm hoping he could go all Kyle Schwarber with the bat power wise at some point. 

You don't say lol. Without Schwarber's eye which Varsho clearly doesn't have, a more realistic peak expectation is some version of prime Javy Baez/2025 first half PCA, without as much chase.

[max silver]

4 minutes ago, jaysblue said:

I'm hoping he could go all Kyle Schwarber with the bat power wise at some point. 

Maybe a Schwarber light type of peak could be possible but without a lot better plate discipline Daulton's ceiling is a lot lower. It's a shame Varsho missed so much time due to injury. I have some doubts he could maintain a 300+ ISO over a full season of play but he kept putting up numbers like this as it started with a massive spring training and continued all season long despite the various stops and starts due to injury.

[jaysblue]

3 minutes ago, Orgfiller said:

You don't say lol. Without Schwarber's eye which Varsho clearly doesn't have, a more realistic peak expectation is some version of prime Javy Baez/2025 first half PCA, without as much chase.

I said "power wise." Varsho doesn't have the eye like Schwarber does, so that will limit him. Might be a 40 HR season in him. Still only 28 so it's possible.