The Ship is Sinking

[Masterbather]

All comes down to the fact that they are so bad at drafting/developing. That whole part of the org needs to be blown up and rebuilt. Completely handcuffs Atkins.

 

This team has had a very lousy recent history of drafting and developing great players that became cornerstones for the Blue Jays even before this regime. Or even acquiring other teams' prospects to fill that role. We haven't had a prospect turned stud everyday player since who? Delgado? Bo has been very good but not quite that level. Vlad showed only a glimpse. Haven't developed a stud ace since...Doc?

 

There have been some guys that had success with other teams, some decent players that weren't necessarily studs. But the last 30 or so years have been very thin in that regard. I know such players don't grow on trees but come on. At some point you just start to feel cursed.

[jaysblue]

Yep. Chicken s*** or TV dinners. They are volatile. Never liked giving Green $11M on that option coming off TJ for that reason. Thought there were better bets we could make for that $.

 

But wait, wasn't Atkins a genius locking up Green to that contract? That was such a great deal!

[Brownie19]

Man all you have to do is hit on a couple draft picks and develop a stud or two and the trajectory changes instantly

 

I know it seems far fetched because this front office hasn’t done it but it honestly shouldn’t be that hard to do

 

You act like it's easy....no big deal. Like you somehow forget we went 21 seasons between playoff appearances. I watched this team develop SEVERAL stars like Doc, Delgado, Shawn Green, Vernon Wells, etc. and it didn't matter. It didn't mean s***.

[Brownie19]

Yep. Chicken s*** or TV dinners. They are volatile. Never liked giving Green $11M on that option coming off TJ for that reason. Thought there were better bets we could make for that $.

 

Moves like Green or IKF don't even move the needle. This team could have signed Ohtani and we'd still be awful.

[BCZ]

That is exactly it.

Vlad/Bo/Kirk/Manoah/Pearson it's something like

 

2021 - 17 WAR age=22.8 or something

2022 - 15 WAR age= 23.8

2023 - 4 WAR age=24.8

2024 - 0 WAR age = 25.8

 

You took a young group of players that were under 23 on average and 17 WAR and they turned to nothing... not sure if any team could survive this.

 

Like how is this even reality? Not just a losing season but destroying a generation of players somehow.

 

And all the while claiming you have started a 'high performance program' or some s***. Unbelievable. A baseball fiasco.

 

Commisioner should intervene and suspend the franchise. Distribute players to the functioning teams and hope they can get fixed.

 

When you put it like that - ouch! We fubar

[Spanky99]

He's the youngest player in that league. He's struggled a bit, but this is beyond early for any judgement given his age.

 

C-poop is an idiot, don't mind him.

[Spanky99]

It's sad that this entire window never really fully opened and it largely hinged on whether a certain heavyset player developed into the franchise player he was seemingly destined to be. Atkins used to take a ton of heat for not extending his young superstar players, but he may have actually been wise in waiting to see what these two players actually were before signing them to long term mega deals.

 

True story.

[PhillyBlueJay]

That is exactly it.

Vlad/Bo/Kirk/Manoah/Pearson it's something like

 

2021 - 17 WAR age=22.8 or something

2022 - 15 WAR age= 23.8

2023 - 4 WAR age=24.8

2024 - 0 WAR age = 25.8

 

You took a young group of players that were under 23 on average and 17 WAR and they turned to nothing... not sure if any team could survive this.

 

Like how is this even reality? Not just a losing season but destroying a generation of players somehow.

 

And all the while claiming you have started a 'high performance program' or some s***. Unbelievable. A baseball fiasco.

 

Commisioner should intervene and suspend the franchise. Distribute players to the functioning teams and hope they can get fixed.

 

I’m pretty sure if this exact quote was sent to the Toronto Star and the words “High Performance Training” were mentioned just like this… The writing on the wall for Atkins and Shapiro to be jettisoned by Rogers Board of Directors would come to pass on June 15th!

 

Great f***ing post by the way!!!

[Spanky99]

We could do worse than Atkins. He made some very good moves. He is adept at 1 year deals and he signed an entire rotation to FA deals. One could argue thats both good and also not sustainable. Be nice to see more development internally.

 

He also had a huge payroll and wildcard era support in making us a playoff contender. Its not like we won a division title. Still, I agree lots of teams spend a lot and suck ass. We have been reasonably competitive. Props for that.

 

My main desire now is to bring very clinical objective decision making to what we do next over the next 2 years and Ross is not the guy for that IMO.

 

Good post.

[Spanky99]

Brownie19 makes "the devil you know" argument with Ross and its a fair one in my view. If we do hire a dud, it makes a tough situation worse.

 

OTOH I think ownership and or Shapiro needs to be quietly canvassing options. Leaving people at the helm who have inherent biases about assets etc developed over the last 9 years to navigate the next couple years is not ideal. I think the situation requires more detached, clinical business analysis and decision making at this point.

 

That's why nothing will happen in season concerning the FO, unless Shapiro himself takes over that gig after a termination, I find any of this highly unlikely in our teams landscape for this season anyway. Everyone needs to calm down, if this team is the same in 6 weeks, s***'s most certainly going down with management, Schneider and Atkins. This type of baseball is unacceptable.

[Stottlemyres_Bloody_Chin]

You act like it's easy....no big deal. Like you somehow forget we went 21 seasons between playoff appearances. I watched this team develop SEVERAL stars like Doc, Delgado, Shawn Green, Vernon Wells, etc. and it didn't matter. It didn't mean s***.

 

Yeah and the only reason your hero GM fielded a playoff team the last 2 years is the expanded playoffs.

 

It wouldn't have been a 21 year draught with today's format.

[Spanky99]

Yeah and the only reason your hero GM fielded a playoff team the last 2 years is the expanded playoffs.

 

It wouldn't have been a 21 year draught with today's format.

 

Go away Skin collector.

[Stottlemyres_Bloody_Chin]

Yeah and the only reason your hero GM fielded a playoff team the last 2 years is the expanded playoffs.

 

It wouldn't have been a 21 year draught with today's format.

 

With today's playoff format hey actually would have made the playoffs in 1998, 1999, 2003, and would have just missed a couple other years between 2003 and 2015, where if they made a deadline acquisition might have made it then too.

[Spanky99]

So not only is this sinking ship of a team destined for last place, but things are going to get "extremely bleak" beyond just this year and we can expect "YEARS of misery" and a "period of darkness"? Wow!

 

lol

[Stottlemyres_Bloody_Chin]

Go away Skin collector.

 

Skin collector? What does that even mean?

 

Your f***ed bud. Are you off your meds again?

[Spanky99]

If you have 10 years of data you don't parse individual moves. You incorporate at MLB performance, farm system talent, and payroll and make a clear-eyed evaluation of current leadership.

 

Good point and brought up plenty of times, these guys up now just might be regulars, not all is bleak, right now our core is bleak. Not too worried about the system as of now.

[Spanky99]

We have a worse bullpen than the Rockies?

 

 

lol... I check our stats once a week or more(BC is right), we're terrible at everything but D, we're 1st... that doesn't help anyone.

[Spanky99]

Fair. Filling in a roster competently with short term deals of value is a skill and he has had some success - Semien, Ray, Belt, KK (23), JT etc. so far.

 

Do I want to have a predominantly FA rotation? No, but in the absence of successful arms development (which is a legit criticism) Gausman, Berrios and Kooch on a cost/WAR basis are or should be good value all said and done on their current deals. '22 was ugly for Berrios and Kooch but they have rebounded. Gausman is already pretty much into house money. Jury is still out on the Hound as he only begun year 2 of 3, and he hasn't been great.

 

I criticize Atkins, but I also try to give him props where due. Most of these deals look better now given the cost of pitching on the market increasing since the deals were signed. No FO bats .1000 in this game with the risks.

 

I've talked to you previously about this it really isn't sustainable unless you develop arms behind them. Now we have all our top kids on the IL, suxxxxxx.

[connorp]

Go away Skin collector.

 

I’d trust a skin collecter over a Benedict Arnold that works to get you kicked out of the your fantasy league after 8 years. Just saying. Skin collector prob more on the up and up

[Spanky99]

f***ing insane what has happened to the bullpen

 

regression and decline exist but the Jays pen went from very good to dogshit, in one offseason

 

wtf man

 

It's only been a few innings though.

[Spanky99]

But wait, wasn't Atkins a genius locking up Green to that contract? That was such a great deal!

 

lulz... please stop guys.

[Spanky99]

Brownie19 makes "the devil you know" argument with Ross and its a fair one in my view. If we do hire a dud, it makes a tough situation worse.

 

OTOH I think ownership and or Shapiro needs to be quietly canvassing options. Leaving people at the helm who have inherent biases about assets etc developed over the last 9 years to navigate the next couple years is not ideal. I think the situation requires more detached, clinical business analysis and decision making at this point.

 

That's why nothing will happen in season concerning the FO, unless Shapiro himself takes over that gig after a termination, I find any of this highly unlikely in our teams landscape for this season anyway. Everyone needs to calm down, if this team is the same in 6 weeks, s***'s most certainly going down with management, Schneider and Atkins. This type of baseball is unacceptable.

 

PS. I saw your DM on facebook(I coundn't like it?)... this would be the likely scenario in late June or July right? They'd have to keep up this s*** play for that to happen. I still think they buy at the deadline if we're within 5 as usual for clubs.

[Spanky99]

I’d trust a skin collecter over a Benedict Arnold that works to get you kicked out of the your fantasy league after 8 years. Just saying. Skin collector prob more on the up and up

 

Benedict Arnold? I see a sorry ass short bus ridin' sieve who quit for his fee fee's. QUITTER.

[BigCecil]

PS. I saw your DM on facebook(I coundn't like it?)... this would be the likely scenario in late June or July right? They'd have to keep up this s*** play for that to happen. I still think they buy at the deadline if we're within 5 as usual for clubs.

 

Ya. Well part of my current view is my personal bias coloring my perception of the situation. I felt Ross should have gone this off season and the skid has only exacerbated that as we stare down big decisions. You are correct if we were playing .660 ball most of this would not be being said about the team. But they aren’t. Still, the ownership won’t move fast on anything I agree. And there are defensible legit reasons for that. Panic and inaction are two bad things we should all want to avoid.

[Spanky99]

Ya. Well part of my current view is my personal bias coloring my perception of the situation. I felt Ross should have gone this off season and the skid has only exacerbated that as we stare down big decisions. You are correct if we were playing .660 ball most of this would not be being said about the team. But they aren’t. Still, the ownership won’t move fast on anything I agree. And there are defensible legit reasons for that. Panic and inaction are two bad things we should all want to avoid.

 

I thought Atkins should've been canned last year, yes I said that, lol. I'm with Omar, the disconnect was apparent.

[BigCecil]

I thought Atkins should've been canned last year, yes I said that, lol. I'm with Omar, the disconnect was apparent.

 

LOL. Well now that we have signed Aaron Sanchez and Dave Steib to minor league deals help is on the way and things are looking up.

[Spanky99]

LOL. Well now that we have signed Aaron Sanchez and Dave Steib to minor league deals help is on the way and things are looking up.

 

Just filler. Please don't put a legend in that guy's name, lol

[Spanky99]

Stieb vs Halladay is fun... they were soooooo good.

 

I love Stieb, just ask BC, lol

[Stottlemyres_Bloody_Chin]

Benedict Arnold? I see a sorry ass short bus ridin' sieve who quit for his fee fee's. QUITTER.

 

Well you come off as a mentally unstable alcoholic on welfare who lives in his mom's basement, because you aren't able to live independently.

 

Oh, and you probably smell like a homeless person.

 

I'd feel sorry for you, but you're unbelievably toxic to people who didn't do s*** to you. You deserve all the s*** you get in life.

[connorp]

Benedict Arnold? I see a sorry ass short bus ridin' sieve who quit for his fee fee's. QUITTER.

 

Benedict Arnold fits you like a glove, mate. You can’t help yourself. We can’t choose our e-friends, we have to accept them.

 

All was fine im trying to talk about some deal I made and along comes “Red Alert Spanky”.. “that’s a violation!! That’s a violation!! Quick everyone look over here!! ….violation!!!.. maybe the teacher will give ME an apple after this. That would be swell for a chick like me. Or one of those star stickers”

 

That’s your kind of goals, my man.

It wasn’t the first time you were a little bitch and it won’t be the last. 20 years strong, amigo.