GDT: Blue Jays @ Nationals game 3/3 (1:35pm et)

[Spanky99]

Bo last 3 seasons = 4.9, 4.9 and 4 WAR. He has not been an issue really.

 

Everyone including the FO needs to get over Vlad and 2021. Its 2024. He isn't that player now and may never be again. The last 2 seasons have been steady decline.

 

We have to make some decisions and deal with it. Its not easy, but neither is a Wander Franco being suspended by MLB for the Rays. Whether its injury, free agency, performance, prospects not panning out, or freak tragedies like Jose Fernandez's speedboat accident, teams have to adapt and adjust to reality.

 

Yeah, I know he's been really good basically a 5 win bat... 5 weeks doesn't change that. I'm not worried about that other stuff on May 5th, lots of baseball left.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Why's Bo's name in here? He's been dogshit the first 5 weeks here and scuffling, but his name doesn't belong in here, the rest have been pain, no doubt though.

 

I'm totally aware of his year by year fWAR totals, and I realize he can still bounce back as he did in 2022. I included him in this list because it's now 2024 and so far he has -0.3 fWAR and is a huge reason this team is scuffling so badly.

[hanton]

lol. Y'all knows WAR isn't linear for the season. I'll gladly take 3 though.

 

yep cumulative doesn't equal linear

[Spanky99]

I'm totally aware of his year by year fWAR totals, and I realize he can still bounce back as he did in 2022. I included him in this list because it's now 2024 and so far he has -0.3 fWAR and is a huge reason this team is scuffling so badly.

 

5 weeks, man. And I'm aware he's a major component to the offence, you quoted since '22.

[Stangstag]

Not one go down the Jays right now or any hardcore fans but management 🙄. I have to say this is somewhat humbling… as I was pissed when Shapiro let Alex Anthopolus walk over baseball operations decisions.

 

How has that f***ing worked out for you now Shapiro and Atkins and oh… Let’s not forget all the success Anthopulos has had since in Atlanta and continued playoff caliber team every year and a World Series.

 

Both you twats roasted him saying he mis-managed prospect assets and put Jays behind a future rebuild. Look at our assets now and playoff caliber team!!!

 

Tell me this you two smug f***ers…. coming from Cleveland acting like you were the second coming of Jesus, acting all upright and proper with super confidence in your interviews, how does it feel now to see your Grand plan all coming crashing down!!!

 

What excuse you have now?!

 

Time for both of you to be replaced! New vision new core group for 2027!

 

Can yall shut the f*** up about AA like holy s***

[hanton]

I missed the game today but caught Jays in 30.....did Kirk eat Manoah? wtf that weight loss, bravo.

[Stangstag]

I missed the game today but caught Jays in 30.....did Kirk eat Manoah? wtf that weight loss, bravo.

 

Yeah the dude put in some work this offseason, kudos to him. Unfortunately its not really translating to on-field results

[Spanky99]

Has Atkins extended anyone that wasn't arb eligible?

 

Grichuk...

[Eat My Shatkins]

5 weeks, man. And I'm aware he's a major component to the offence, you quoted since '22.

 

Well, no I said those 4 players combined for about 30 fWAR in 2021 and 2022, and then said look at them NOW.

[Spanky99]

Well, no I said those 4 players combined for about 30 fWAR in 2021 and 2022, and then said look at them NOW.

 

So you're talking about '24, I just said he's been dogshit, as you said. He wasn't last year and has had similar s*** months in the past, 5 weeks is a small sample is what I'm saying, he shouldn't be lumped in with those 3 other guys is all.

[hanton]

Yeah the dude put in some work this offseason, kudos to him. Unfortunately its not really translating to on-field results

 

yea not surprised the weight loss alone won't help that much, hope they can get him some outside help, pitching coach or something...

[Brownie19]

Anyone know what Manoah's Stuff+ was yesterday. I don't yet know where to find stuff like that.

[MikeM3]

Anyone know what Manoah's Stuff+ was yesterday. I don't yet know where to find stuff like that.

 

86

 

Lol

[Brownie19]

86

 

Lol

 

c'mon...serious? yikes.

[BTS]

86

 

Lol

 

86 stuff+ and no command. Dude is going to get nuked every time out

[Laika]

86

 

Lol

 

that is shockingly bad

 

86 stuff+ 89 location+

 

98 FB (okay)

85 sinker (brutal)

79 slider (wtf?)

 

he threw 22% fastballs, 40% sinkers, 38% sliders

 

avg velo on his fastball, sinker, and slider was some of the best of his career

 

I don't know what to make of this. The movement profiles must be horrible because by velo, things appear to have a bit more zip than last year.

 

Dude had a 118 stuff+ slider in 2021 and 2022. It vanished overnight.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Wow

 

If that is his stuff+ numbers Manoah starts are basically going to be guaranteed loss days

[Brownie19]

Wow

 

If that is his stuff+ numbers Manoah starts are basically going to be guaranteed loss days

 

Good - we need a better draft position anyway

[Brownie19]

that is shockingly bad

 

86 stuff+ 89 location+

 

98 FB (okay)

85 sinker (brutal)

79 slider (wtf?)

 

he threw 22% fastballs, 40% sinkers, 38% sliders

 

avg velo on his fastball, sinker, and slider was some of the best of his career

 

I don't know what to make of this. The movement profiles must be horrible because by velo, things appear to have a bit more zip than last year.

 

Dude had a 118 stuff+ slider in 2021 and 2022. It vanished overnight.

 

Watching the game, it looked like he was throwing 2 different sliders. One was more of a "get me over" pitch and then there was a much better one that had a completely different shape and looked dirtier. I have no idea if he had any control over which one he threw, or was trying to do that at all though. Apparently they all sucked. 118 to 79 is baffling. They must be able to analyze his extension, release point, pressure points, etc. I'd love to know what's going on with him. Something is tangibly different though - this isn't a mental issue.

 

I have heard of pitchers "losing" a pitch, but I suspect in today's age, that's MUCH less likely to happen. So bizarre.

[Laika]

He should not be in the majors though

 

What a joke.

 

I can't even really think of what to do with his arsenal at this point. He needs something in between his s***** fastball and s***** slider. 37 year old Lance Lynn is probably the closest half-decent (performance) comp that can be found in many ways and he throws a cutter at 88.

[MikeM3]

that is shockingly bad

 

86 stuff+ 89 location+

 

98 FB (okay)

85 sinker (brutal)

79 slider (wtf?)

 

he threw 22% fastballs, 40% sinkers, 38% sliders

 

avg velo on his fastball, sinker, and slider was some of the best of his career

 

I don't know what to make of this. The movement profiles must be horrible because by velo, things appear to have a bit more zip than last year.

 

Dude had a 118 stuff+ slider in 2021 and 2022. It vanished overnight.

 

I don't think stuff+ was platoon adjusted back then

 

He was always kinda Ashcraftian

 

His strategy last night was increased sliders to lefties when in the past he would sneak by with the 4 seam

[Omar]

Watching the game, it looked like he was throwing 2 different sliders. One was more of a "get me over" pitch and then there was a much better one that had a completely different shape and looked dirtier. I have no idea if he had any control over which one he threw, or was trying to do that at all though. Apparently they all sucked. 118 to 79 is baffling. They must be able to analyze his extension, release point, pressure points, etc. I'd love to know what's going on with him. Something is tangibly different though - this isn't a mental issue.

 

I have heard of pitchers "losing" a pitch, but I suspect in today's age, that's MUCH less likely to happen. So bizarre.

 

Excellent observation. I thought the same. Whenever he fell behind in the count he went to the ole get me over. Give him another two starts and see what happens.

[max silver]

that is shockingly bad

 

86 stuff+ 89 location+

 

98 FB (okay)

85 sinker (brutal)

79 slider (wtf?)

 

he threw 22% fastballs, 40% sinkers, 38% sliders

 

avg velo on his fastball, sinker, and slider was some of the best of his career

 

I don't know what to make of this. The movement profiles must be horrible because by velo, things appear to have a bit more zip than last year.

 

Dude had a 118 stuff+ slider in 2021 and 2022. It vanished overnight.

 

This outing makes me wish Stuff+ results were broken down by inning. Alek appeared to be a completely different pitcher past the second inning or so. He flashed some really nice stuff and command in the early going including 95 MPH sinkers on the corners and some nasty sliders. His inning was already extended from the early Bo error and he suddenly lost his command and walked a bunch of hitters. He had a solid second inning where the stuff and command were both crisp, and then he started morphing back into the s***** 2023 version of himself where he had no command and his stuff completely backed up. Just a totally baffling outing given the extreme variance between where he started stuff and command wise and where he ended up.

[hanton]

had it on my mind the Jays were playing today because of course when you call up a AAA pitcher most likely it's because there's a run of games to come ........nope, off day today. Somebody has some essplaning to do

[Spanky99]

Watching the game, it looked like he was throwing 2 different sliders. One was more of a "get me over" pitch and then there was a much better one that had a completely different shape and looked dirtier. I have no idea if he had any control over which one he threw, or was trying to do that at all though. Apparently they all sucked. 118 to 79 is baffling. They must be able to analyze his extension, release point, pressure points, etc. I'd love to know what's going on with him. Something is tangibly different though - this isn't a mental issue.

 

I have heard of pitchers "losing" a pitch, but I suspect in today's age, that's MUCH less likely to happen. So bizarre.

 

FWIW... Steve Phillips said they changed his cross body delivery and likely needs more time in AAA to hone it in. Those numbers are rough though.