Is the window closing for Atkins and Shapiro?

[burlingtonbandit]

OK? I'd strongly disagree.

 

2/15 for a guy who's a bench player at best? If the Jays knew what they had with Ernie Clement I don't think he would even be on the roster at this point, if it wasn't for his salary. He's a fine fielder at 3rd base but can't hit..

[max silver]

2/15 for a guy who's a bench player at best? If the Jays knew what they had with Ernie Clement I don't think he would even be on the roster at this point, if it wasn't for his salary. He's a fine fielder at 3rd base but can't hit..

 

In a typical offseason that's still bench player money though. IKF is likely about a 1.5 win player if he plays primarily in the infield and receives more than 500 PA, vs Gurriel who is a 2 win player if he receives 600 PA. Gurriel is paid a $14 million AAV for an extra half win vs IKF so it hardly seems like IKF is such a bad contact in comparison.

[burlingtonbandit]

In a typical offseason that's still bench player money though. IKF is likely about a 1.5 win player if he plays primarily in the infield and receives more than 500 PA, vs Gurriel who is a 2 win player if he receives 600 PA. Gurriel is paid a $14 million AAV for an extra half win vs IKF so it hardly seems like IKF is such a bad contact in comparison.

 

I'd take the under on IKF being a 1.5 win player. Only steamer really has him projected to hit that if he reached that many PA. The Bat thinks he's barely above replacement level.

 

Gurriel did seem to do pretty well for himself though. Speaking of which what a fantastic start for him already at 0.6 WAR lol.

[Brownie19]

I'd take the under on IKF being a 1.5 win player. Only steamer really has him projected to hit that if he reached that many PA. The Bat thinks he's barely above replacement level.

 

Gurriel did seem to do pretty well for himself though. Speaking of which what a fantastic start for him already at 0.6 WAR lol.

 

I mean, he's literally been a 1.5 and 1.6 WAR player the 2 previous years that he was a starter on the infield. Gurriel's broke 2 WAR once in his career and projects for just 2 WAR this year - yet costs almost twice as much as IKF, plus he gets an extra year and an opt out after year 2. Suggesting IKF's deal is 10x worse is just plain stupidity.

[Windowclosing]

I personally think the window is closing and I’m not embarrassed that anyone knows.

[Stangstag]

I mean, he's literally been a 1.5 and 1.6 WAR player the 2 previous years that he was a starter on the infield. Gurriel's broke 2 WAR once in his career and projects for just 2 WAR this year - yet costs almost twice as much as IKF, plus he gets an extra year and an opt out after year 2. Suggesting IKF's deal is 10x worse is just plain stupidity.

 

Do you wanna buy wins or not? Gurriel is just plain better.

[burlingtonbandit]

I mean, he's literally been a 1.5 and 1.6 WAR player the 2 previous years that he was a starter on the infield. Gurriel's broke 2 WAR once in his career and projects for just 2 WAR this year - yet costs almost twice as much as IKF, plus he gets an extra year and an opt out after year 2. Suggesting IKF's deal is 10x worse is just plain stupidity.

 

Plain stupidity would be Atkins giving IKF 2 f***ing years...

[Brownie19]

Plain stupidity would be Atkins giving IKF 2 f***ing years...

 

Christ you're insufferable.

[burlingtonbandit]

Christ you're insufferable.

 

Not as insufferable as the Jays offence.

[tazsub3]

Maybe am becoming a bad fan. maybe they getting me to lose interest.

I used to have that excitement when the season starts,even when we had bad teams.

 

For whatever reason, i cant get myself to watch a full game.

 

I feel it is a team with no identity,. They sucked the life out of it

time for them to go

[Delgalladay]

Maybe am becoming a bad fan. maybe they getting me to lose interest.

I used to have that excitement when the season starts,even when we had bad teams.

 

For whatever reason, i cant get myself to watch a full game.

 

I feel it is a team with no identity,. They sucked the life out of it

time for them to go

 

I feel the same way. I can’t get excited this season and have barely tuned in so far. I can’t believe Atkins wasn’t fired after last season.

[Krylian]

Maybe am becoming a bad fan. maybe they getting me to lose interest.

I used to have that excitement when the season starts,even when we had bad teams.

 

For whatever reason, i cant get myself to watch a full game.

 

I feel it is a team with no identity,. They sucked the life out of it

time for them to go

 

That's cause you know they aren't good enough.

[burlingtonbandit]

Yeah this has definitely been the least excited I had been going into a season since 2019. A lot of my friends who are more casual fans were the same way. Just feels like its an 84-85 win team where best case scenario is a wildcard spot and then get lucky in the playoffs.

[jaysblue]

Christ you're insufferable.

 

Reading all your posts defending Atkins and this FO about everything is insufferable.

[MikeM3]

If Varsho busts again that means we have zero good players under meaningful team control lol

[burlingtonbandit]

I think another reason why the excitement is low is while there are a few interesting prospects most are of the reliever/low upside variety. Tiedemann is legit but there aren't any Bo/Vlad type impact prospects in the farm system. So reality is the roster is old and due for a makeover.

[JFD]

excitement is low because we have a GM that is incapable of building a winning team and is in denial.

[tazsub3]

But many years before when I knew the team was bad I would still tune in , follow individual games, stats , prospects . …

Just can’t get started with that team . So it’s not the record or potential record .

[tazsub3]

Yes that might also be it , as when we were bad there was the dream what we can become , with Vlad bo biggie and many others at the time. Now feels we as exciting as Atkins personality

[Dick_Pole]

If Varsho busts again that means we have zero good players under meaningful team control lol

 

The other way of looking at it is that the Jays have massive payroll flexibility. Of course, we saw what they did with flexibility this offseason though...

[burlingtonbandit]

The other way of looking at it is that the Jays have massive payroll flexibility. Of course, we saw what they did with flexibility this offseason though...

 

Also I'm not sure Rogers is going to continue to pay 200M a year in payroll if the team doesn't go on a playoff run/have a division contending team.

[glory]

If Varsho busts again that means we have zero good players under meaningful team control lol

 

Practically the entire team is only here from 2024-26. With a farm system that isn’t producing much impact talent, I’m not sure that’s a good thing. On one hand they will have a lot of money to fix holes but without cheap impact talent at some positions it’s going be hard to field a contender that way. The current approach worked because Bichette and Vlad (and Kirk, Jansen, Teoscar, Gurriel, etc) were making peanuts. That’s no longer the case which is why the payroll is so high. You need a bunch of those guys at premium spots, otherwise all the payroll flexibility in the world isn’t going to fix the team’s issues.

[Stangstag]

Practically the entire team is only here from 2024-26. With a farm system that isn’t producing much impact talent, I’m not sure that’s a good thing. On one hand they will have a lot of money to fix holes but without cheap impact talent at some positions it’s going be hard to field a contender that way. The current approach worked because Bichette and Vlad (and Kirk, Jansen, Teoscar, Gurriel, etc) were making peanuts. That’s no longer the case which is why the payroll is so high. You need a bunch of those guys at premium spots, otherwise all the payroll flexibility in the world isn’t going to fix the team’s issues.

 

You need guys like Clement, Schneider, and Horwitz filling holes for cheap yet the front office refuses to let them play.

[glory]

You need guys like Clement, Schneider, and Horwitz filling holes for cheap yet the front office refuses to let them play.

 

Yeah it’s baffling that the FO is prioritizing IKF and KK over Clement and Schneider so far. They need to use these next couple of years to try to break in as many prospects as they can and hope they stick. If they don’t have the appetite for that and would prefer a vetrin, then it’s going to be harder to develop significant internal options by 2026. Like, Orelvis has the highest upside of the near ready prospects but he seems like someone who will take some time to adjust to big league pitching. If they don’t want to play DS who has done nothing but kill MLB pitching then it’s hard to envision them having patience with others. I guess we will see. I think there’s a real chance IKF is so bad that they eventually cave and use him as a bench player. KK is more hit or miss.

[Krylian]

The other way of looking at it is that the Jays have massive payroll flexibility. Of course, we saw what they did with flexibility this offseason though...

 

Risk averse organizations always have payroll flexibility.

[Mikeleelop]

this lineup is woefully inadequate and was built this offseason by S&A

 

There no way Bo and Vlad resign here with this lineup around them.....

[tazsub3]

I wonder if a losing streak early in the early will push impulsive Rogers to clean house . Or he looks at bottoms line and tough it out with the salaries of Atkins and Schneider

[Krylian]

this lineup is woefully inadequate and was built this offseason by S&A

 

There no way Bo and Vlad resign here with this lineup around them.....

 

For all we know the intention was never to re-sign here. We just don't know. If I were a betting man, I'd say Vladdy is open to signing an extension and Bo would rather be elsewhere. But that's just my gut feel.

[deanmike]

You need guys like Clement, Schneider, and Horwitz filling holes for cheap yet the front office refuses to let them play.

 

Free the Catan Boys !!!

[wamco]

For all we know the intention was never to re-sign here. We just don't know. If I were a betting man, I'd say Vladdy is open to signing an extension and Bo would rather be elsewhere. But that's just my gut feel.

 

I agree. That’s why it’s unclear why they are so pampered. One is leaving and the other isn’t worth keeping at a salary he would accept (as of now)