Around Baseball 2024

[BatFlip]

It's so funny that the same Shatkins stans have the same responses to people's criticisms. They must be on the Jays payroll because they can't be this blind can they lol.

 

 

Does every conversation have to end up being "us vs them", "shatkins fans", etc.? I think we all want to see some organizational changes, but it also doesn't mean that everything the management team does is "idiotic".

 

Can we just, at least, semi-intelligently discuss baseball and share some opinions?

[BatFlip]

For the same money as a top end starter we could get 2-3 relievers though. I think I'd rather have several relievers. Other than Garcia everyone is replacement level at best

 

 

This is really the only route they can go on the pitching side if they still want to improve the roster. Should be some decent deals out there as we get closer to spring training, and they have a low bar to improve on the names currently in the pen. Do that, and then take a flyer on a buy low, high risk, SP depth name.

[max silver]

For the same money as a top end starter we could get 2-3 relievers though. I think I'd rather have several relievers. Other than Garcia everyone is replacement level at best

 

I think Burr has potential to be a key piece for the pen Green should have a realistic shot to bounce back if he can recapture the form on his breaking ball to garner more whiffs. They definitely need to add more arms for sure though as the pen is very thin at present.

[jaysblue]

I'm cool with signing a starter, but he needs to at least be better than the in house options in order to push Rodriguez to the pen. That could improve the team in two areas at once. I think the only free agent starters worth acquiring are Pivetta and Flaherty though so there aren't a ton of options available.

 

There were a lot of other free agent starters available earlier this offseason and some decent trade candidates who wouldn't have cost a whole lot like Jesus Luzardo, but here we sit now with just Pivetta and Flaherty as the two only worth acquiring. Would love to see either, but I doubt the Jays sign Pivetta to a 3-year/$75M deal or hand Flaherty $120M for 5 years. As well, I don't think they would want to come here, unless the Jays offer them the most guaranteed money.

 

We're likely looking at guys like Jose Quintana, Martin Perez or Cal Quantrill as guys who would be willing to sign anywhere for $8-10M and a guaranteed rotation spot.

 

Agreed that would like to see Y-Rod pushed to the pen, if a No 2/3 starter were brought in. Improves two areas at once and I think Y-Rod could be a solid leverage reliever if given the opportunity.

[Carlos Danger]

Looks like it probably wouldn’t have been Toronto if Teo didn’t go to the Dodgers. (Which was apparent he was dead set on returning). The Mets also offered Teo a two year deal.

[John_Havok]

The border issue..and taxes...those only matter when the team isn't winning.

[Abomination]

I think I could get on board with Santander, Kim, and Quantrill. It's not ideal, but there's actually some pretty good impact there. I feel like Quantrill's issue is actually pitch selection rather than stuff, and that's something Pete might be able to sort out.

[max silver]

I think I could get on board with Santander, Kim, and Quantrill. It's not ideal, but there's actually some pretty good impact there. I feel like Quantrill's issue is actually pitch selection rather than stuff, and that's something Pete might be able to sort out.

 

I had a look at Quantril's stuff metrics and Statcast numbers and it appears as though he only has a single good pitch in his splitter. He already threw that 32% of the time so I don't know if it's realistic to throw it even more.

[John_Havok]

I think I could get on board with Santander, Kim, and Quantrill. It's not ideal, but there's actually some pretty good impact there. I feel like Quantrill's issue is actually pitch selection rather than stuff, and that's something Pete might be able to sort out.

 

Kim = Clement. We don't need him

[Brownie19]

Does every conversation have to end up being "us vs them", "shatkins fans", etc.? I think we all want to see some organizational changes, but it also doesn't mean that everything the management team does is "idiotic".

 

Can we just, at least, semi-intelligently discuss baseball and share some opinions?

 

It's sad unfortunately.

[John_Havok]

At this point they need to get weird and creative

 

Offer whomever they want to target a big dollar deal with an opt-out after 2025. Make 2025 a bigger AAV than the rest. Do that with Bregman and Santander and then pray they both opt out after Vlad and Bo leave.

 

Seriously just throw money at 2025, and hopefully make one last deep run with Bo and Vlad hopefully hitting like they can.

 

If not, deadline trades and the firesale to end all firesales

[Abomination]

I had a look at Quantril's stuff metrics and Statcast numbers and it appears as though he only has a single good pitch in his splitter. He already threw that 32% of the time so I don't know if it's realistic to throw it even more.

 

He's always been a weird guy. His results seem to outperform the metrics by a pretty good margin. He wasn't healthy in 2023 and suffered from pitching in Coors last year. If you stick him in front of a good defense, I wouldn't be at all shocked to see him put up an ERA in the low 3's (with an xFIP in the mid 4's).

[L54]

The team is going to suck

 

Do not sign anyone who received a QO

 

Sign whoever and whatever to one year deals to field roster

 

Vlad, Bo, Bassitt all off the books in 26

 

Gausman in 27

 

Reset and do this properly under new management

[max silver]

He's always been a weird guy. His results seem to outperform the metrics by a pretty good margin. He wasn't healthy in 2023 and suffered from pitching in Coors last year. If you stick him in front of a good defense, I wouldn't be at all shocked to see him put up an ERA in the low 3's (with an xFIP in the mid 4's).

 

Quantril was better on the road than at home but was still pretty bad with a 4.93 FIP/4.59 xFIP away from Coors Field. It's possible he's simply not very good at this point of his career. I just don't see a lot of upside personally but he was a league average starter as recently as 2022 with even worse stuff metrics compared to now so perhaps he can bounce back a bit.

[John_Havok]

He's always been a weird guy. His results seem to outperform the metrics by a pretty good margin. He wasn't healthy in 2023 and suffered from pitching in Coors last year. If you stick him in front of a good defense, I wouldn't be at all shocked to see him put up an ERA in the low 3's (with an xFIP in the mid 4's).

 

Even so, SP isn't whatvthe Jays need to improve right now. Subbing in Quantrill for Yariel...might be a 1 win improvement. Sure...a win is a win and if the Jays didn't have literally no power aside from Vlad and a bullpen with more holes than OJs defense, it would be a decent gamble

[Abomination]

Kim = Clement. We don't need him

 

Kim is a better bat, better base runner, a better defender, and has a better track record. I love Clement, but they are not equal. Clement is absolutely ideal coming off the bench and spelling guys a few times a week. He'll rack up some serious value in that role.

[Jays24]

Does every conversation have to end up being "us vs them", "shatkins fans", etc.? I think we all want to see some organizational changes, but it also doesn't mean that everything the management team does is "idiotic".

 

Can we just, at least, semi-intelligently discuss baseball and share some opinions?

 

Of course we can... please take a look at the responses provided by the same folks as well. It's like they're the ones who are trolling at this point.

 

And no, not everything this management team has done is idiotic. Max just made an excellent point where we all agreed. Team made great moves until 2021 but didn't want to keep their own players by either undervaluing those players or overestimating their farm system/ability to get equal replacements via trade/ability.

[Jays24]

Even so, SP isn't whatvthe Jays need to improve right now. Subbing in Quantrill for Yariel...might be a 1 win improvement. Sure...a win is a win and if the Jays didn't have literally no power aside from Vlad and a bullpen with more holes than OJs defense, it would be a decent gamble

 

The other side is that our bullpen also improves with the move as Yariel immediately becomes one of our best arms there.

 

And agree about the power... I've been complaining about this ever since we got rid of Teo lol. Gonna need at least 2 power bats no matter what we do with the pitching.

[Omar]

Worried about our starting rotation in 2025?

You guys are all forgetting about the rabbit that Atkins will pull out of the proverbial hat during spring training: Jake Bloss

[John_Havok]

Kim is a better bat, better base runner, a better defender, and has a better track record. I love Clement, but they are not equal. Clement is absolutely ideal coming off the bench and spelling guys a few times a week. He'll rack up some serious value in that role.

 

If ga want to pay a free agent for half a win improvement over Clement...be my guest. That's not a way to move the needle. Incremental win improvements at this point are bull****. Team needs impact bats and pen arms. Kim is neither of those.

 

Edit: Wtf is this censoring crap?

[Jays24]

Worried about our starting rotation in 2025?

You guys are all forgetting about the rabbit that Atkins will pull out of the proverbial hat during spring training: Jake Bloss

 

Starting rotation and defense should be the least of our concerns tbh... we need to focus all our available resources on offense and the bullpen.

 

We're fine with settling for the best cheapest starting pitching option available. The same isn't true for the other spots.

[jaysblue]

Kim = Clement. We don't need him

 

Stop it please.

[jaysblue]

The border issue..and taxes...those only matter when the team isn't winning.

 

It's always an issue regardless. Tough to convince new players to come play here.

[jaysblue]

It's sad unfortunately.

 

Maybe if you change your attitude and don't come across as an arrogant prick all the time.

 

At least someone like Max is reasonable, rational and respectful. You're the complete opposite.

[jaysblue]

The other side is that our bullpen also improves with the move as Yariel immediately becomes one of our best arms there.

 

And agree about the power... I've been complaining about this ever since we got rid of Teo lol. Gonna need at least 2 power bats no matter what we do with the pitching.

 

Yup, you're making two upgrades with one move. Even if Quantrill replaces Y-Rod in the rotation, innings won't be an issue and Y-Rod out of the pen likely can be as valuable if not more than he would be in the rotation on an innings limit.

[Spanky__99]

Maybe if you change your attitude and don't come across as an arrogant prick all the time.

 

At least someone like Max is reasonable, rational and respectful. You're the complete opposite.

 

Wow!

[jaysblue]

Wow!

 

Speaking the truth.

 

Can't stand the guy. Most arrogant poster on this board. I'm not the only one who shares those views FYI.

 

Max is a nice guy and actually can have a discussion with him, even if we don't agree on certain things.

[Spanky__99]

Speaking the truth.

 

Can't stand the guy. Most arrogant poster on this board. I'm not the only one who shares those views FYI.

 

Max is a nice guy and actually can have a discussion with him, even if we don't agree on certain things.

 

[Jonn]

So they are stupid for trying to sign him?

 

No I’m saying they are stupid for not building a strong foundation to attract free agents with the resources they have.

[G-Snarls]

Orioles, Blue Jays Discussed Franchise-Record Contracts With Corbin Burnes

 

December 28th, 2024 at 6:20pm CST • By Nick Deeds

 

Perhaps the most surprising deal of the offseason came together late last night when the Diamondbacks and right-hander Corbin Burnes reportedly reached an agreement on a six-year deal that guarantees Burnes $210MM. It’s a deal that Nick Piecoro of the Arizona Republic reports came together rapidly after Burnes’s camp expressed the right-hander’s desire to pitch in the desert. Prior to Burnes pivoting to Arizona, the three teams most frequently connected to the right-hander were the incumbent Orioles, their division rival Blue Jays, and the Diamondbacks’ own division rival Giants.

 

The exact specifics of the club’s offer to Burnes aren’t entirely clear, but it’s worth noting that Nightengale later reported that the Orioles and Blue Jays both discussed franchise-record contracts with Burnes while adding that one AL East club offered Burnes a seven-year, $250MM contract that did not come with an opt-out opportunity. The New York Post’s Jon Heyman, meanwhile, described the Blue Jays, Orioles, and one other team from the East divisions as the three biggest bidders for Burnes.