Around Baseball 2024

[BigCecil]

All these pitchers having arm issues makes me think about how durable Berrios has been with over 1200 IP - now 29.

 

He was bad in '22 for us and rebounded '23. This yr he has a 5 FIP and xERA 6.70 in 2 starts - but has kept us in those games.

 

I would take the bet now that he does not opt out of his deal after '26 here.

[BigCecil]

Wouldnt this problem fix it self? Pitchers are going to reel back from throwing so hard at such a young age as injuries keep piling up and front offices are going to stop signing pitchers to such long term deals if they're so fragile.

 

Not for a long time. Its huge business. My son was 13 and went to a "Perfect Game" training and evaluation weekend in Phoenix Jan of 23.

 

At 12-13 they are tracking V and spin rate, and if you want to try out for a top travel team in the USA you have to send these stats in advance to even get a look on the field. Two kids were there from Team USA 13-14 and it was wild to see all the scouts and profile they got.

 

Perfect Game is probably the most well known of these companies, but since Hud went, I probably get 5 emails a week from different orgs running similar things hyping the need to get noticed.

 

I don't know how or if this will ever auto correct itself with an endless up and coming supply of new kids and parents. Big business.

[BTS]

Not for a long time. Its huge business. My son was 13 and went to a "Perfect Game" training and evaluation weekend in Phoenix Jan of 23.

 

At 12-13 they are tracking V and spin rate, and if you want to try out for a top travel team in the USA you have to send these stats in advance to even get a look on the field. Two kids were there from Team USA 13-14 and it was wild to see all the scouts and profile they got.

 

Perfect Game is probably the most well known of these companies, but since Hud went, I probably get 5 emails a week from different orgs running similar things hyping the need to get noticed.

 

I don't know how or if this will ever auto correct itself with an endless up and coming supply of new kids and parents. Big business.

 

Jeff Passan was very critical of the Perfect Game showcases in his book The Arm. He seems to think the entire industry is predatory. A lot of these kids are also throwing year-round now because their parents are obsessive about getting them into as many showcases as possible, and want them as high on the velo/spin leaderboards as they can get.

[Krylian]

 

Solid chirp from Griff.

[Brownie19]

Not for a long time. Its huge business. My son was 13 and went to a "Perfect Game" training and evaluation weekend in Phoenix Jan of 23.

 

At 12-13 they are tracking V and spin rate, and if you want to try out for a top travel team in the USA you have to send these stats in advance to even get a look on the field. Two kids were there from Team USA 13-14 and it was wild to see all the scouts and profile they got.

 

Perfect Game is probably the most well known of these companies, but since Hud went, I probably get 5 emails a week from different orgs running similar things hyping the need to get noticed.

 

I don't know how or if this will ever auto correct itself with an endless up and coming supply of new kids and parents. Big business.

 

100%. I'm just getting into this now with my oldest son and the Prep Baseball Ontario profiles. He's just 13, but teammates and other kids he plays against have already gone to these training events to get their exit velo, barrel %, LA, infield velo, outfield velo and then all the pitching stats recorded and such. Lots of the kids from the U15 elite team his U14 AAA team practices with are doing the same thing.

 

I looked it up the other day to see what it cost and f*** ME - it's $299 for 1 position and another $99 for a second position - and that's in USD's!

 

Almost every coach out there is telling kids to chase velocity. They'll teach you control after that, but without velo, you're not worth developing.

[Laika]

Couldn't MLB, if they wanted to, deaden the ball and incentivize pitching to contact again?

 

It's all so complicated.

 

They could deaden the ball more. This would in theory make pitching to contact more viable. However, fans like home runs! And overall offense is not at an extreme level or anything.

 

They could tweak roster/promotion rules so that teams have a harder time legally cycling through so many pitchers. In theory, this means more durable P need to be rostered. However, this would inherently put more strain on pitchers so if a team does NOT properly adjust the league has just legislated more injury risk!

 

They could incentivize keeping pitchers healthy with bonus picks, or taxes for offending teams, etc. Think, something like a comp round for teams that have the fewest pitcher injury days through their entire organization. Or taxes (money or picks) if you burn through too many pitchers. But again, s***** teams might abuse the system.

 

 

Wonder if there is a way to do it with the DH slot as a carrot/stick. Something like, if you pull your SP before 5 IP or 100 pitches and he is not legitimately hurt you lose the DH rest of the game.

[BTS]

They could incentivize keeping pitchers healthy with bonus picks, or taxes for offending teams, etc. Think, something like a comp round for teams that have the fewest pitcher injury days through their entire organization. Or taxes (money or picks) if you burn through too many pitchers. But again, s***** teams might abuse the system.

 

This is interesting. The only incentives right now for teams to care about pitcher health is protection of their investment in that pitcher. So if the investment is minimal, they don't care. But MLB assigning actual responsibility to teams for protecting pitcher health (in the form of meaningful compensation for teams that do it well) would shift the focus a bit, because I don't think teams are really held accountable for their treatment of arms as things currently stand.

[BigCecil]

Jeff Passan was very critical of the Perfect Game showcases in his book The Arm. He seems to think the entire industry is predatory. A lot of these kids are also throwing year-round now because their parents are obsessive about getting them into as many showcases as possible, and want them as high on the velo/spin leaderboards as they can get.

 

Its disturbing bud. Kids and parents of those kids is a business factory.

 

We had fun at the PG, and my son competed better than I thought he would, so that was good for him confidence wise, but its all driven by the dollar and the kid's arms are the expendable commodity, with a never ending international supply.

 

I met parents there that talk about spin rates and V endlessly on 12 year old kids - who go from showcase to showcase. Its a bit twisted.

[Jimcanuck]

I suspect a lot of the damage is before a pitcher hits professional ball. A growing kid developing tissues and ligaments shouldn't be throwing 100% like they are today. That doesn't promote healthy arm development / strength.

[BigCecil]

I suspect a lot of the damage is before a pitcher hits professional ball. A growing kid developing tissues and ligaments shouldn't be throwing 100% like they are today. That doesn't promote healthy arm development / strength.

 

Dr Andrew’s says the Tommy John ligament is not fully developed until age 26! So yes for certain on kids focussing on max V and spin rate early on is not helping pitchers stay healthy.

[BTS]

[Laika]

 

but why

[BTS]

but why

 

No idea why they felt the need to do this or Bello's extension.

[BTS]

Here we go again

 

[Stangstag]

Here we go again

 

 

Eeeesh

[Spanky__99]

Here we go again

 

 

He followed up with this, these guys are s***ing their pants, we're not worried my ass, lol...

 

[G-Snarls]

Surely to God at least the occasional SP gets elbow pain from minor ailments that doesn't lead to surgery, right? RIGHT?!?!?!

 

that does seem like the exception these days....

[Jimcanuck]

How much of this spate of injuries can be blamed on the advent of Driveline / pitch design? Maximizing velocity and spin wouldn't accelerate the frequency of TJS, would it?

[Spanky__99]

How much of this spate of injuries can be blamed on the advent of Driveline / pitch design? Maximizing velocity and spin wouldn't accelerate the frequency of TJS, would it?

 

It's certainly a reason, a lot more stress on the elbow.

[Grant77]

Brace yourselves guys....

 

Julian Merryweather is injured.

[G-Snarls]

Elly De La Cruz hit a 450 foot CF bomb of a home run AND had an inside the park home run in the same game today. He got around the bases in under 16 seconds.

 

Is he a freak of nature or what?

[G-Snarls]

[hanton]

Alzolay brushes back Tatis, he parks the next pitch in the left field seats

[Dick_Pole]

Probably will jinx it now but...I wonder if the Jays have found the secret sauce in terms of pitcher health? Other than Manoah and a couple of fringy pitchers like Merryweather and Pearson, this team keeps their pitchers pretty healthy. And it's been a trend going back a good ten years. How many times have we seen someone say "well you can't expect such good luck with pitcher health again" on this board?

 

As for what we've seen happening with the injuries. Been saying this for years. Tampa Bay's front office has been a scourge for baseball. League basically has to try to undo all this ******** this franchise has created going back to 2009 with their "smart" way of playing the game. And all the dipshits who have been sucking up to this "great" front office need to be thrown into the sun with them. Short term thinking is such a perfect way to categorize it. But, you know, anyone who spoke up against these trends were just old dinosaurs who didn't know how to use a computer.

[Spanky__99]

Silseth to the IL, elbow inflammation...

 

[BTS]

How much of this spate of injuries can be blamed on the advent of Driveline / pitch design? Maximizing velocity and spin wouldn't accelerate the frequency of TJS, would it?

 

I’m guessing a lot. Both the maximizing spin and velo, and spending their offseason throwing hard and often to learn how to do it.

[BTS]

Probably will jinx it now but...I wonder if the Jays have found the secret sauce in terms of pitcher health? Other than Manoah and a couple of fringy pitchers like Merryweather and Pearson, this team keeps their pitchers pretty healthy. And it's been a trend going back a good ten years. How many times have we seen someone say "well you can't expect such good luck with pitcher health again" on this board?

 

This is actually a really good point. I think the only major league pitchers to break for Toronto in the last 10 years or so are Ken Giles and Ryu?

[BigCecil]

Probably will jinx it now but...I wonder if the Jays have found the secret sauce in terms of pitcher health? Other than Manoah and a couple of fringy pitchers like Merryweather and Pearson, this team keeps their pitchers pretty healthy. And it's been a trend going back a good ten years. How many times have we seen someone say "well you can't expect such good luck with pitcher health again" on this board?

 

I have said that because I think its just a fair comment but you raise a good point for TOR. But I'm not just talking about arm surgeries. Other injuries happen like Stro wrecking his knee fielding a bunt in ST in 2015. We broke camp with our two top leverage pen arms on the IL this season. Who knows how that rolls out. Gausman and Berrios have a lot of IP on them and the Hound is 36. The last time I can remember the health we had in the staff last year was I think 2016. Dam Berrios was good last night.

 

In any case to your point on TOR figuring out the secret sauce for pitching arm health here is an article from 2015 alleging just that, and "that its not rocket science."

 

https://www.thestar.com/sports/blue-jays/blue-jays-suffered-fewest-pitching-injuries-in-baseball-in-2015/article_6f418e28-47f0-536e-8a30-366f845a283b.html

[MikeM3]

No one seems to mention Glasnows point about having to put max grip pressure just to grip the ball. Bring back spider tack! Or something better.

[Laika]

No one seems to mention Glasnows point about having to put max grip pressure just to grip the ball. Bring back spider tack! Or something better.

 

There are stray anecdotes or opinions for stuff like this but not any real support from research. Not necessarily disproven either, just not studied enough.

 

The link between injuries and:

 

1. velocity, generally

2. velocity, at the upper end of your personal abilities

 

Is well known and established as far as I understand.