Ohtani Thread - Special Sheriff's Edition (Update: confirmed going to the Dodgers)

[John_Havok]

Dear god, imagine the amount of drugs and alcohol that were consumed on a winter weekend cabin retreat with Spanky.

 

I'm guessing close to Richard Pryor or Dennis Leary in their primes kind of levels. Maybe up to Hunter S Thompson levels, but I doubt they'd have access to adrenochrome.

[Laika]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/12/blue-jays-made-competitive-offer-to-shohei-ohtani.html

 

Sigh

[Ray]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/12/blue-jays-made-competitive-offer-to-shohei-ohtani.html

 

Sigh

 

Entirely possible that Jays actually made a better offer to him in terms of net present value.

 

Looking more like he basically wanted to be a Dodger. Can’t entirely fault him for it tbh, but it’s still painful to think about.

[Ray]

Bright side maybe - redistribute the $600M between Bo and Vlad and extend this window so the Davis Schneider era doesn’t go to waste.

[Laika]

The annoying thing is that unless it's Yamamoto I don't even really WANT them to spend "this money" on free agents because they are all landmines.

 

Like, doing a bunch of boring s*** is very justifiable.

[Stangstag]

The annoying thing is that unless it's Yamamoto I don't even really WANT them to spend "this money" on free agents because they are all landmines.

 

Like, doing a bunch of boring s*** is very justifiable.

 

Yeah the FA crop this year isn’t exciting at all.

[Omar]

It is hard to fault Ohtani for taking the most $$$ he could get. Who among us wouldn't do the same?

 

That said, am I hoping for a barrage of injuries to come the Dodgers way in 2024? Yes.

 

Do I hope they knocked out of the playoffs every year? Yes.

 

Do I hope the back half of the Shohei contract turns into an albatross? Absolutely.

[John_Havok]

It is hard to fault Ohtani for taking the most $$$ he could get. Who among us wouldn't do the same?

 

That said, am I hoping for a barrage of injuries to come the Dodgers way in 2024? Yes.

 

Do I hope they knocked out of the playoffs every year? Yes.

 

Do I hope the back half of the Shohei contract turns into an albatross? Absolutely.

 

Oddly enough, I hope they win multiple WS as a result. Would be a crime to see a trio of MVP-level players not get at least 1

[RobinThicc]

Passan notes that Major League Baseball applies a discount to deferrals in luxury tax calculations to determine the present-day value of contracts. Given the fact that “most of” Ohtani’s contract is expected to be deferred, Passan suggests that Ohtani’s deal, for luxury tax purposes, is expected to settle in the range of $40MM to $50MM when all is said and done. While those numbers aren’t final and won’t figure to become exact until the contract is properly finalized and announced, that range substantially alters the impact Ohtani will have on LA’s luxury tax bill over his decade-long tenure with the club."

 

"Ohtani’s luxury tax hit for the 2024 season were to shrink from the $70MM his on-paper AAV would suggest to a figure in the range of $45MM, that would put the club’s luxury tax payroll at roughly $219MM using the numbers supplied by RosterResource. For a Dodgers club that saw its luxury tax payroll land at $267MM last year after peaking at a whopping $293MM in 2022 (per Cot’s Baseball Contracts), that would leave the Dodgers with the ability to add upwards of $50MM before even matching their 2023 payroll for luxury tax purposes, and just under $75MM in room before their hit their all-time high."

 

 

They will easily be able to give $300m to Yamamoto/and also sign both Bellinger and Snell if they want to. Indeed, without even breaking a sweat.

Rogers shouldve beat the Dodgers offer. Maybe Ohtani wasnt willing defer so much with the Jays. But looking at his deal, if it were a similar set up here, they shouldve gone 750.

[RobinThicc]

We don't really know how close we were. Jays could've been well been complete pawns in this entire process. It's happened before, it'll happen again.

BNS says Jays were within range. Just go the extra mile and get the f***ing guy.

 

Beating the f*** head Dodgers alone wouldve been worth it.

[RobinThicc]

So annoying reading these american dick heads write about how happy they are that he chose the dodgers instead of the jays

[Marew]

I don’t think anyone in here is salty. It will be funny to see the dodgers have to eat 350m and trade him after not winning a World Series in 3 years though and ohtani being on the DL for half that time.

 

All the while we will have new, better and more exiting Japanese superstars who will overtake him as the face of the league, probably as early as next year

[Dick_Pole]

There's little question that Ohtani's reps put it out there. He and his representatives are total pieces of s***. It's a shame that the league's best player has to be like that but hopefully he just burn out and leave the Dodgers with an albatross contract.

 

Nobody knew is was a done deal especially the dodgers nation people. Ohtani is a baby back bitch and is greedier than hitler.

 

Can't wait for the geniuses in the fan base to give Ohtani the Larry Murphy treatment. That will really get star athletes thinking that Toronto is a world class city worthy of coming to.

[Dick_Pole]

So annoying reading these american dick heads write about how happy they are that he chose the dodgers instead of the jays

 

Then don't read them.

[Dick_Pole]

I don’t think anyone in here is salty. It will be funny to see the dodgers have to eat 350m and trade him after not winning a World Series in 3 years though and ohtani being on the DL for half that time.

 

All the while we will have new, better and more exiting Japanese superstars who will overtake him as the face of the league, probably as early as next year

 

No more salty than a Taylor Swift breakup song!

[Dick_Pole]

Jesus Christ guys, go for a walk or something

 

Lots of people need psychologists in here, I swear.

[BTS]

Bright side maybe - redistribute the $600M between Bo and Vlad and extend this window so the Davis Schneider era doesn’t go to waste.

 

If the team has the willingness to spend 300-500 on a single player, that puts them in the market for mid-prime HoF level talent. The Harper/Betts/Judge tier of player. I hope they don’t get tunnel vision with Bo and Vlad. They can pick their spot here. Maybe it’s Soto next off-season. Or Sasaki when he’s posted. Or the Padres decide they can’t afford Tatis. Or Yordan Alvarez is the next Astro to hit the market. No need to hitch their wagon to someone like Vlad if they’re playing in the big boy pool.

[Dick_Pole]

I mean this sincerely, a lot of the reactions I'm reading here and in other places says a lot more about you as a person than it does Ohtani, his agents, the media or the Dodgers.

 

The Jays put themselves on the map as a top tier contending team that can recruit free agents while the Yankees, Cubs and Giants all ran with their tails between their legs. This is so much a good news story, but now people with inferiority complexes for being Canadian, or being Blue Jays fans, or whatever, are going to make this about them. The Jays are a top 10 or top 5 franchise. I'd rather live in Toronto than most U.S. cities and definitely would prefer it over Los Angeles. If Ohtani feels differently than me and it took $100 million extra deferred over time to take advantage of some tax loophole to convince him of that, good for him. Doesn't take away from the goodwill built by the Jays over this. Unless, of course, the fan base behaves like Jan 6th s*** disturber because they believe something was unfairly stolen from them.

[Dick_Pole]

If the team has the willingness to spend 300-500 on a single player, that puts them in the market for mid-prime HoF level talent. The Harper/Betts/Judge tier of player. I hope they don’t get tunnel vision with Bo and Vlad. They can pick their spot here. Maybe it’s Soto next off-season. Or Sasaki when he’s posted. Or the Padres decide they can’t afford Tatis. Or Yordan Alvarez is the next Astro to hit the market. No need to hitch their wagon to someone like Vlad if they’re playing in the big boy pool.

 

BTS coming in hard with the solid takes tonight.

[Marew]

I mean this sincerely, a lot of the reactions I'm reading here and in other places says a lot more about you as a person than it does Ohtani, his agents, the media or the Dodgers.

 

The Jays put themselves on the map as a top tier contending team that can recruit free agents while the Yankees, Cubs and Giants all ran with their tails between their legs. This is so much a good news story, but now people with inferiority complexes for being Canadian, or being Blue Jays fans, or whatever, are going to make this about them. The Jays are a top 10 or top 5 franchise. I'd rather live in Toronto than most U.S. cities and definitely would prefer it over Los Angeles. If Ohtani feels differently than me and it took $100 million extra deferred over time to take advantage of some tax loophole to convince him of that, good for him. Doesn't take away from the goodwill built by the Jays over this. Unless, of course, the fan base behaves like Jan 6th s*** disturber because they believe something was unfairly stolen from them.

 

What does Toronto have that you can’t get in a similar size city in the USA where you don’t need 15 times an average salary to pay for a house?

[Krylian]

Oddly enough, I hope they win multiple WS as a result. Would be a crime to see a trio of MVP-level players not get at least 1

 

I kinda hope so too...but for the purpose of really putting the exclamation point to Rogers and Jays management that being 'right there' is nice from a PR perspective, but if you want to be serious (and this doesn't just pertain to Ohtani alone) sometimes you have to come off the top rope with the flying elbow and just take what you want. If it means overpaying cause you know he's the one you really want and need, then do it. Oh well...let's see what kind of underwhelming moves are in our future for the remainder of this off-season.

[Rusty_Savage]

Yeah we almost signed the second coming of Babe Ruth. There was one team in front of us and we forced them into a Saudi Arabia-style overpay to get him.

 

I'm disappointed as hell but I'm not really mad at anyone other than the American media who were liars and frauds through this whole ordeal and now that it's over they are being smug ****s about it (Heyman's latest being the prime example).

 

But I don't blame Ohtani, the Dodgers, Atkins, Rogers, or anyone else. We gave it a good shot but in the end he seemed to prefer the Dodgers and the Dodgers were all in.

 

Most of the top FAs and trade targets are still on the board so time to regroup and spend the money we have to improve the team.

 

Yeah, I really don't get the hate for Ohtani. He just took the most money to play where he more than likely wants to be. We probably forced the Dodgers to pay 100-200 million more then they planned on.

 

Some people just like to complain, it gets really tiring. People complain that the FO isnt any good because the only way we can get FA to come here is by offering the most money. No f***ing s***, that's how it works, very few, if any, players will take less money to go where they want.

 

I too was disappointed on Saturday but it dissipated yesterday and I realized that it bodes well for fans that they are actually committed to selling out this kind of dough. I still think they have their own internal valuations and won't go to far above that ala Cohen or Steinbrenner but this team should be a perennial contender if they play their cards right, and that's good enough for me.

 

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Olerud363]

I mean this sincerely, a lot of the reactions I'm reading here and in other places says a lot more about you as a person than it does Ohtani, his agents, the media or the Dodgers.

 

The Jays put themselves on the map as a top tier contending team that can recruit free agents while the Yankees, Cubs and Giants all ran with their tails between their legs. This is so much a good news story, but now people with inferiority complexes for being Canadian, or being Blue Jays fans, or whatever, are going to make this about them. The Jays are a top 10 or top 5 franchise. I'd rather live in Toronto than most U.S. cities and definitely would prefer it over Los Angeles. If Ohtani feels differently than me and it took $100 million extra deferred over time to take advantage of some tax loophole to convince him of that, good for him. Doesn't take away from the goodwill built by the Jays over this. Unless, of course, the fan base behaves like Jan 6th s*** disturber because they believe something was unfairly stolen from them.

 

Perhaps some idiots are mad because we didn't get him. However the majority are mad because of the way it was reported, which is totally justifiable. A cardinal rule of life is that you do not give big news, good or bad, that is not true. No excuse at all. Imagine you are going in for a cancer test, and the doc says all clear, you celebrate for an hour, then they call you back. Sorry you got 6 months to live. Imagine you make a pitch for life changing venture capitol for your company, and your banking partner tells you they got a couple of million from an Angel investor... then 10 hours later calls you back, no they invested in another company. In baseball terms this is a franchise changing signing, and the reporting was unacepteble and immoral.

 

Probably no reason to be mad at the Blue Jays management for this one. But mad at reporters? Mad at Ohtani's agents (if they had a role in letting the 'confirmed to Blue Jays' narrative get out of hand). Mad at Dodgers Nation? Hell yes. Who the hell really knows how intentional all this was by these parties. Even the reasonable posters like Laika seem to be implying there was a little nefarious actions on their part. Not acceptable at all in anyway.

 

Multiple people should be fired and told they have to go live in van down by the river. Biggest flaw in our society is there is no intermediate punishment between jail and getting off scott-free. When you mis-behave you should be fined a total equal to your net-worth, then have to go live in a van by the river. This is what should happen to Ohtani's agent and several reporters.

[Laika]

Something funny happened but I'm not upset about it

 

It's just disappointing that there aren't several marquee free agents to turn to, right now

 

Dick Pole is right about the big picture, the fact that Toronto was in it to the end is amazing. They just need to be patient and keep this fun money in reserve for a true franchise player. Don't get tunnel vision on Bo Bichette.

 

It might even take a few years for the right player to be available and signable. So be it.

[Laika]

Actually, this is f***ing hilarious. Maybe they SHOULD just lock in Bo Bichette.

I wanted to put together a short list of possible "franchise" players who could hit FA in the next 3 offseasons.

Went to the Fangraphs top 50 trade values list.

 

Other than Soto and Kyle Tucker, there is very little.

 

Juan Soto - after 2024

Kyle Tucker - after 2025

Will Smith - after 2025

Bichette - after 2025

Vlad - after 2025

Framber Valdez - after 2025

Zac Gallen - after 2025

Arozarena - after 2026

Kirk - after 2026

Mullins - after 2025

 

Soto is on his own.

 

Bo, Tucker, and Will Smith are all very, very similar. I like Tucker more long term because of the walk rate and contact, but Bo has his pros (a better hit tool and better position).

 

Nobody else on the list is very attractive to me, at big money.

 

A cute Kirk extension RIGHT NOW buying a couple FA years might actually be wise though.

 

Gerrit Cole has an opt out after 2024 but the Yankees can void out by tacking one one extra year for him.

The top of the FA pile next year has some good players but they are all older. Goldschmidt, Wheeler, Altuve, Bregman, Scherzer.

 

 

Of course there may be a giant from overseas.

 

It will be interesting to see what they do. Maybe they absorb salary in a trade and it does end up being Luis Robert.

 

Maybe every team in baseball sees the same warts on Cody Bellinger and his final contract ends up being palatable, like a Springer deal.

[Brownie19]

You can probably add Bregman to that list too...but I agree - none of those guys are on the superstar level (yet) like Ohtani, Betts, Soto, etc. Tucker is the closest.

[Jaysareus]

Can't believe jays didn't get ohthani. Toronto has way better Japanese restaurants than LA

[BTS]

Actually, this is f***ing hilarious. Maybe they SHOULD just lock in Bo Bichette.

I wanted to put together a short list of possible "franchise" players who could hit FA in the next 3 offseasons.

Went to the Fangraphs top 50 trade values list.

 

Other than Soto and Kyle Tucker, there is very little.

 

Juan Soto - after 2024

Kyle Tucker - after 2025

Will Smith - after 2025

Bichette - after 2025

Vlad - after 2025

Framber Valdez - after 2025

Zac Gallen - after 2025

Arozarena - after 2026

Kirk - after 2026

Mullins - after 2025

 

Soto is on his own.

 

Bo, Tucker, and Will Smith are all very, very similar. I like Tucker more long term because of the walk rate and contact, but Bo has his pros (a better hit tool and better position).

 

Nobody else on the list is very attractive to me, at big money.

 

A cute Kirk extension RIGHT NOW buying a couple FA years might actually be wise though.

 

Gerrit Cole has an opt out after 2024 but the Yankees can void out by tacking one one extra year for him.

The top of the FA pile next year has some good players but they are all older. Goldschmidt, Wheeler, Altuve, Bregman, Scherzer.

 

 

Of course there may be a giant from overseas.

 

It will be interesting to see what they do. Maybe they absorb salary in a trade and it does end up being Luis Robert.

 

Maybe every team in baseball sees the same warts on Cody Bellinger and his final contract ends up being palatable, like a Springer deal.

 

I wonder how soon the Royals trade Bobby Witt Jr. He's a FA after 2027, their team isn't winning anything between now and then, and they're probably not giving him the 400M it will take to keep him. Maybe they trade him with 2+ years left like the Nats did with Soto.

[Marew]

Can't believe jays didn't get ohthani. Toronto has way better Japanese restaurants than LA

 

I heard from someone he hired a team of guys, like 3-4 of them who just live in his basement suite and roll sushi all day. Eventually they will get a recipe he likes.

[BigCecil]

If the team has the willingness to spend 300-500 on a single player, that puts them in the market for mid-prime HoF level talent. The Harper/Betts/Judge tier of player. I hope they don’t get tunnel vision with Bo and Vlad. They can pick their spot here. Maybe it’s Soto next off-season. Or Sasaki when he’s posted. Or the Padres decide they can’t afford Tatis. Or Yordan Alvarez is the next Astro to hit the market. No need to hitch their wagon to someone like Vlad if they’re playing in the big boy pool.

 

You have hit on a key point that will be very interesting to watch as a fan.

 

Money for what Ohtani brings as a unicorn is one thing for Rogers. Nobody else comes close from a marketing/keep Corp money flowing into newly renovated stadium perspective to justify ticket prices increases.

 

Will this be a completely anomalous Rogers move, or will they make a big push (s) that moves away from focus on the Bo/Vlad era?