General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[The_DH]

The 40 man roster is full and we will need at least one spot for another catcher. Not sure if it will be Serven or if somebody will shake loose from one of the other teams. But we will have to drop somebody.

I'd see options being:

1. Drop somebody from the current 40 such as Zack Pop or Macko. I'm not suggesting anybody here, just putting out a name for example.

2. Make a trade sending Espinal and maybe a reliever or two.

[John_Havok]

John, you kick relievers to the curb on the 40, not a 22 year old in AAA, don't be silly.

 

Yeah Espinal clones have their place so guess. Cheap bench players three years from now could be useful.

[Terminator]

Jimenez is definitely safe this year. Next year he is out of options so that could be a different story. But if he has a good year this year he'll be on the team next year as a league minimum bench player.

 

But he's been a solid prospect to follow because his progression has been so linear. The hit tool, batting eye and short stop defense are all there. The big knock was his power but even that is improving. After hitting 1 homer in his first 4 years in the org he hit 6 in '22 and 8 in '23.

[Spanky99]

The 40 man roster is full and we will need at least one spot for another catcher. Not sure if it will be Serven or if somebody will shake loose from one of the other teams. But we will have to drop somebody.

I'd see options being:

1. Drop somebody from the current 40 such as Zack Pop or Macko. I'm not suggesting anybody here, just putting out a name for example.

2. Make a trade sending Espinal and maybe a reliever or two.

 

Macko? Okay I've heard enough, meatheads.

[John_Havok]

Jimenez is definitely safe this year. Next year he is out of options so that could be a different story. But if he has a good year this year he'll be on the team next year as a league minimum bench player.

 

But he's been a solid prospect to follow because his progression has been so linear. The hit tool, batting eye and short stop defense are all there. The big knock was his power but even that is improving. After hitting 1 homer in his first 4 years in the org he hit 6 in '22 and 8 in '23.

 

Yeah I forgot to mention his last option year being this year. So he’s a bench guy at best in 2025, and if Bo leaves, the odds on starting SS in 2026. That doesn’t excite me in the least.

[BTS]

It would be surprising if they drop a pitcher. They don't have a ton of bullpen depth, and all of the guys they'd consider dumping are optionable, which gives them value. I think Espinal will ether be traded, or outrighted if they can't fins a taker. I don't think 2.75M is enough for the FO to care much about the sunk cost on a guy they just signed a couple months ago.

[BTS]

Actually the team should have given Espinal the old JD Davis and lowballed the f*** out of him to force an arb hearing

[The_DH]

Macko? Okay I've heard enough, meatheads.

 

I just put a name out there. Read the next sentence. We may need to clear 2 spots if one of Vogelbach (less likely) or Votto make the roster along with a catcher.

[Spanky99]

Yeah I forgot to mention his last option year being this year. So he’s a bench guy at best in 2025, and if Bo leaves, the odds on starting SS in 2026. That doesn’t excite me in the least.

 

lol... no-one is suggesting that, it'll be Little and one of Danner/Zulu or trade. There's zero percent chance the Jays designate Jimenez, you were are flat out wrong.

[Spanky99]

It would be surprising if they drop a pitcher. They don't have a ton of bullpen depth, and all of the guys they'd consider dumping are optionable, which gives them value. I think Espinal will ether be traded, or outrighted if they can't fins a taker. I don't think 2.75M is enough for the FO to care much about the sunk cost on a guy they just signed a couple months ago.

 

Yeah, they could do that for sure, I've been advocating it. Trade or Option him, but a DFA is certainly not out of the question.

[Spanky99]

I just put a name out there. Read the next sentence. We may need to clear 2 spots if one of Vogelbach (less likely) or Votto make the roster along with a catcher.

 

We've been talking about the topic before your post, bro.

 

https://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/11179-General-Blue-Jays-Discussion-Thread-(2024)?p=1778045&viewfull=1#post1778045

[Terminator]

It would be surprising if they drop a pitcher. They don't have a ton of bullpen depth, and all of the guys they'd consider dumping are optionable, which gives them value. I think Espinal will ether be traded, or outrighted if they can't fins a taker. I don't think 2.75M is enough for the FO to care much about the sunk cost on a guy they just signed a couple months ago.

 

Yeah it'd be tough to dump a reliever with options. Especially as you go through the names.

 

-Can't dump Pearson.

-Zulu is still making Top 10 lists

-Little has 3 options and is a lefty

-Pop and Danner only have 1 option left, I guess one of them? Unless the org thinks Zulu or Little aren't worth keeping

 

On the flip side we have shitloads of infielders, both on the big league bench and in AAA. And a lot of them are slap hitters with overlapping skills so it screams for a trade. We are probably just hanging on to them to see if anyone gets hurt, if not they'll accept one of the lowball offers they've been getting.

[Terminator]

And that's just to add Serven. If we want Vogelbach we need to make two moves.

[glory]

That's not actually true though. Teams like TB, LAD, ATL all spent IKF money or more on players expected to be worth about 1 win this season.

 

I'm not really defending the choice to sign IKF. I think that's the valid criticism to make here. We'll see how well they evaluated him. I think the cost is immaterial though. They decided that they were comfortable with IKF getting 400+ PA at 3B. If he's good nobody will care that he cost 7.5M a year and if he's bad the the opportunity cost of going to him instead of another solution will be the real harm, not that they signed him for 15M instead of 5M or whatever.

 

I think the complaints about the cost are mostly just silly. First it was whining that they couldn't afford Chapman because they signed IKF. Then it turned out that the FO isn't completely moronic, and knew at the time that Chapman didn't want to come back. Now people are complaining that Clement is blocked. We'll see how that plays out, but almost all whining that fans do in ST about players being blocked ends up being a complete non-issue once injuries and poor performance start to kick in.

 

It's both the cost and the player that people have an issue with, in combination with what his role appears to be. Everything is factored in. He has a career 81 wRC+ (82, 86, and 82 the last 3 seasons respectively) and will be playing 3B everyday from the looks of it. The highest wRC+ projection for him in 2024 is from Steamer at 88, and he's never actually reached that number in any non-Covid season. Unless they can unlock some sort of hidden offensive ability in him where he can be closer to league average offensively, then he's going to be a massive black hole in the lineup. I don't think he was worth $7.5m on a 1 year deal, much less $7.5m per year for two, and that was before seeing what the market eventually turned into. The Jays don't need a 85 wRC+ 3B, even if he ends up with a 2 WAR because he gets 650 PA.

 

I don't think anyone has suggested that this was an albatross contract or anything. If he's the same dude he's always been, then he'll be fine as long as he's more of a utility player who doesn't play everyday. Unfortunately that is not the expectation for him. Look I hope I'm wrong because it would be great and hysterical if he makes the AS team in 2024 and we can watch Yankees fans complain about it (they hate IKF). Or maybe Donnie Baseball can get him closer to league average offensively which combined with his defense would make him a more reasonable starting 3B. I just think that if you're going to strike early before a market materializes, then this is not the player you do it for, and neither is Kiermaier when you already have Varsho.

[connorp]

It’s sad really that the High Table here doesn’t like any differing opinion. Not to be confused of having anything to do with politics, but we’ll just call them “Baseball liberals” in that they have a narrow view of things and you’re an extremist if you have differing views.

 

It was a sad off season. Definitely a lot of legit fuel for people to hang on to.

I’m actually not doom and gloom as I think Vlad and Springer will come back to life. That kind of thinking is clearly what the Jays are banking on. If it doesn’t happen, can’t really fault the vitriol that will be spewed. It wouldn’t be unlikely either that exec’s heads would be on a stake if there was another disappointing finish.

[John_Havok]

It’s sad really that the High Table here doesn’t like any differing opinion. Not to be confused of having anything to do with politics, but we’ll just call them “Baseball liberals” in that they have a narrow view of things and you’re an extremist if you have differing views.

 

It was a sad off season. Definitely a lot of legit fuel for people to hang on to.

I’m actually not doom and gloom as I think Vlad and Springer will come back to life. That kind of thinking is clearly what the Jays are banking on. If it doesn’t happen, can’t really fault the vitriol that will be spewed. It wouldn’t be unlikely either that exec’s heads would be on a stake if there was another disappointing finish.

 

I love contrary opinions. Properly argued and based on actual facts is great.

 

Mindless bitching based on suppositions, assumptions, and general idiocy is like talking to a whiney toddler. It serves no purpose

[Spanky99]

I love contrary opinions. Properly argued and based on actual facts is great.

 

Mindless bitching based on suppositions, assumptions, and general idiocy is like talking to a whiney toddler. It serves no purpose

 

So, like connorp.

[John_Havok]

So, like connorp.

 

Nah, he's 50/50.

 

He knows what buttons to push even if he doesn't share the opinion.

 

He's been anti IKF from the start and actually can support why without inventing hindsight arguments.

[Laika]

It’s sad really that the High Table here doesn’t like any differing opinion. Not to be confused of having anything to do with politics, but we’ll just call them “Baseball liberals” in that they have a narrow view of things and you’re an extremist if you have differing views.

It was a sad off season. Definitely a lot of legit fuel for people to hang on to.

I’m actually not doom and gloom as I think Vlad and Springer will come back to life. That kind of thinking is clearly what the Jays are banking on. If it doesn’t happen, can’t really fault the vitriol that will be spewed. It wouldn’t be unlikely either that exec’s heads would be on a stake if there was another disappointing finish.

 

This is honestly very cringe

 

There is a whole convoy of you guys who think you're brave contrarians. You say the same s*** and like each other's posts all the time, lmao.

 

Cute little persecution fantasy. Ohhhhh noooo the ivory tower baseball liberals are trying to squash dissent!!!

[Laika]

MIL spending their entire payroll on Hoskins

 

2/$34M for a guy with a 1.9 WAR projection

 

And making Sal Frelick learn the infield because they have no money to get a 3B

 

Then JD Davis costs $3M with almost the same projection as Hoskins

[Spanky99]

This is honestly very cringe

 

There is a whole convoy of you guys who think you're brave contrarians. You say the same s*** and like each other's posts all the time, lmao.

 

Cute little persecution fantasy. Ohhhhh noooo the ivory tower baseball liberals are trying to squash dissent!!!

 

Exactly, if you look back on successful signings, it's the same s***. And this dude makes less than 8M.

[BatFlip]

It's both the cost and the player that people have an issue with, in combination with what his role appears to be. Everything is factored in. He has a career 81 wRC+ (82, 86, and 82 the last 3 seasons respectively) and will be playing 3B everyday from the looks of it. The highest wRC+ projection for him in 2024 is from Steamer at 88, and he's never actually reached that number in any non-Covid season. Unless they can unlock some sort of hidden offensive ability in him where he can be closer to league average offensively, then he's going to be a massive black hole in the lineup. I don't think he was worth $7.5m on a 1 year deal, much less $7.5m per year for two, and that was before seeing what the market eventually turned into. The Jays don't need a 85 wRC+ 3B, even if he ends up with a 2 WAR because he gets 650 PA.

 

I don't think anyone has suggested that this was an albatross contract or anything. If he's the same dude he's always been, then he'll be fine as long as he's more of a utility player who doesn't play everyday. Unfortunately that is not the expectation for him. Look I hope I'm wrong because it would be great and hysterical if he makes the AS team in 2024 and we can watch Yankees fans complain about it (they hate IKF). Or maybe Donnie Baseball can get him closer to league average offensively which combined with his defense would make him a more reasonable starting 3B. I just think that if you're going to strike early before a market materializes, then this is not the player you do it for, and neither is Kiermaier when you already have Varsho.

 

 

Couldn't agree more.

[hanton]

Votto is in the lineup

[BTS]

Votto is in the lineup

 

And Yariel Rodriguez pitching

[hanton]

And Yariel Rodriguez pitching

 

wait there's 2 games - Votto is in the other game vs the Phillies

[BTS]

wait there's 2 games - Votto is in the other game vs the Phillies

 

Yeah, split squad. Yariel starting vs. Twins

[The_DH]

And I got 'em both on TV. Life is good!! Watching Yariel pitching right now then flip channels to watch Votto hit.

[hanton]

s*** that's a great curve ball

[saskjayfan]

Votto just made the team. Homer in his first AB vs Zack Wheeler

[Jays24]

Oh no... Rodriguez lol