GDT: 1/4 Toronto Blue Jays @ Cleveland Guardians (Monday 7:10 ET)

[WryNGinger]

To use 6 relievers and not have one s*** the bed and cost us a game is...well s***...I dunno. My brain is having trouble processing this.

 

This was a gutsy win from the whole team. Really nice to see.

 

Biggio won us this game, good for him plus nice to see how fired up he was after that unassisted double play. Very intelligent piece of work.

[Omar]

In all seriousness he's barely hanging on. Today will help but he's been negative WAR in 2 of the past 3 years (though today's game might have gotten him out of the red for this year).

The fact he bats left helps him a lot. But we have a shitload of bench guys coming up through the system so he'll need to keep playing well to remain on the roster.

 

Yeah, I have my doubts he is on the roster next year. This offseason should be interesting.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Lol at the dummy who kept throwing Biggio change ups haha.

 

Thanks, much appreciated.

 

Keep the train a Rollin Jays!

[bones10]

Where do we rank when the giga chad bullpen is assembled, gotta be top 5 easy. They’re already 7th relief in war.

[Spanky99]

He's contributed an 84, 97 and 92 wRC+ the past 3 years including this one. He's fringe.

 

Bench < what is that? A Bat... go have a nap. Dummie...

Edited August 8, 2023 by Spanky99

[tossingthiscoin]

I think Jano saved the Jays at least 2 runs with the blocks he made.

 

Hicks shouldn't be closer when Green and Romano are back.

[Spanky99]

He's contributed an 84, 97 and 92 wRC+ the past 3 years including this one. He's fringe.

 

Bench Bat

[Terminator]

bench bat

 

A s***** One

[max silver]

He's contributed an 84, 97 and 92 wRC+ the past 3 years including this one. He's fringe.

 

The dude needs to figure out how to get off to a better start in the first month of the season. He's rocking a horrendous 43 WRC+ for his career in Mar/Apr. This season he put up a 16 WRC+ in April, but then proceeded to produce 130 for May, 114 for June and 107 for July. He got off to an even worse start last season, with a -6 WRC+ in Mar/Apr, 108 in May, 172 in June, 77 in July, 108 in Aug then slowing to a 67 in September.

 

He might not have a spot on next year's squad depending on Barger's timeline but for now he's a nice contributor on the bench in his limited role against RHP.

[Spanky99]

A s***** One

 

Who's better?

[Terminator]

The dude needs to figure out how to get off to a better start in the first month of the season. He's rocking a horrendous 43 WRC+ for his career in Mar/Apr. This season he put up a 16 WRC+ in April, but then proceeded to produce 130 for May, 114 for June and 107 for July. He got off to an even worse start last season, with a -6 WRC+ in Mar/Apr, 108 in May, 172 in June, 77 in July, 108 in Aug then slowing to a 67 in September.

 

He might not have a spot on next year's squad depending on Barger's timeline but for now he's a nice contributor on the bench in his limited role against RHP.

 

I don't really disagree with anything you and spanky are saying until we get to the "nice contributor" part. He's been negative WAR in 2 out of the last 3 years and the season he was actually positive was largely due to him grading out well defensively for the first and only time in his career. So yeah, he's a bench guy but he's not a good one IMO.

 

That is interesting about the slow starts though. Perhaps he'll hit the rest of the way. And maybe he'll eventually prove me wrong. But 3 years and all these wasted ABs is a long time to wait. He's about to enter his physical decline years.

[WryNGinger]

I don't really disagree with anything you and spanky are saying until we get to the "nice contributor" part. He's been negative WAR in 2 out of the last 3 years and the season he was actually positive was largely due to him grading out well defensively for the first and only time in his career. So yeah, he's a bench guy but he's not a good one IMO.

 

That is interesting about the slow starts though. Perhaps he'll hit the rest of the way. And maybe he'll eventually prove me wrong. But 3 years and all these wasted ABs is a long time to wait. He's about to enter his physical decline years.

 

The Biggio part of this game day topic should be moved to the general blue jays thread as it will need more discussion. Some good points brought up here.

 

My guess is that the front office expected more contributions from the AA and AAA infield talent but almost everyone got off to slow starts or had an injury. The crux of the off-season plan will be to know who's rebound and late season performance is sustainable and can contribute to the major-league roster and which are mirage.

It's going to be a very tricky off-season for this management team.

[Daniel Labude]

The Biggio part of this game day topic should be moved to the general blue jays thread as it will need more discussion. Some good points brought up here.

 

My guess is that the front office expected more contributions from the AA and AAA infield talent but almost everyone got off to slow starts or had an injury. The crux of the off-season plan will be to know who's rebound and late season performance is sustainable and can contribute to the major-league roster and which are mirage.

It's going to be a very tricky off-season for this management team.

 

Almost seems destined to see

 

3B: Orelvis

SS: Bo

2B: Barger/Schneider

1B: Vlad

C: Jansen/Kirk

LF: Schneider/Barger

CF: Varsho

RF: Springer

DH: FA/Horwitz/Kirk

[Stangstag]

Almost seems destined to see

 

3B: Orelvis

SS: Bo

2B: Barger/Schneider

1B: Vlad

C: Jansen/Kirk

LF: Schneider/Barger

CF: Varsho

RF: Springer

DH: FA/Horwitz/Kirk

 

I think they’ll go after a big bat for the LF/1B/DH spot. Something similar to Brandon Belt. Maybe even 2 guys. Maybe like Joc Pederson + Teo on a 1 year deal? Then fill the 2B/3B spots with Barger/Orelvis/Davis/possibly DeJong. Could see Tim Anderson on a 1 yesr deal too.

[Daniel Labude]

I think they’ll go after a big bat for the LF/1B/DH spot. Something similar to Brandon Belt. Maybe even 2 guys. Maybe like Joc Pederson + Teo on a 1 year deal? Then fill the 2B/3B spots with Barger/Orelvis/Davis/possibly DeJong. Could see Tim Anderson on a 1 yesr deal too.

 

I can pretty much guarantee TA will not be a Jay

[Omar]

I think they’ll go after a big bat for the LF/1B/DH spot. Something similar to Brandon Belt. Maybe even 2 guys. Maybe like Joc Pederson + Teo on a 1 year deal? Then fill the 2B/3B spots with Barger/Orelvis/Davis/possibly DeJong. Could see Tim Anderson on a 1 yesr deal too.

 

Why would Teo sign a one year deal? He is no scrub.

[Brownie19]

Why would Teo sign a one year deal? He is no scrub.

 

Because he's a corner OF who's coming off a horrible season? Not to say some teams won't give him a 2 or 3 year offer, but it seems doubtful he's going to sign a 4-6 year deal. He's 100% a candidate to sign a 1 year pillow deal to try and rebuild himself to cash in on a bigger, long term deal.

[connorp]

I can pretty much guarantee TA will not be a Jay

 

He played the victim card with racism that one time. That could help his cause.

[Jonn]

I hope they bring back Kiermaier I am not happy or comfortable with Varsho cemented in CF next Season.

[Stangstag]

I hope they bring back Kiermaier I am not happy or comfortable with Varsho cemented in CF next Season.

 

Gotta fill other holes dude. KK and Varsho in the same OF is redundant

[Brownie19]

Gotta fill other holes dude. KK and Varsho in the same OF is redundant

 

Unfortunately, this is true. Also would be difficult to commit to KK for more than 1 or 2 years and I have to think someone will give him 3+ years.

[glory]

Almost seems destined to see

 

3B: Orelvis

SS: Bo

2B: Barger/Schneider

1B: Vlad

C: Jansen/Kirk

LF: Schneider/Barger

CF: Varsho

RF: Springer

DH: FA/Horwitz/Kirk

 

I think of the 4 prospects in AAA that are near ready (or ready), the best shots at having roles on the big league club in the beginning of 2024 are probably Schneider and Horowitz. Barger has been great in July after missing time due to injury, so he might be a dark horse to win a spot for 2024, but I think both he and Orelvis start 2024 in AAA and serve as depth. We will probably see some typical Atkins trades to fill 3B and LF short term.

 

With that said, if the Jays have a lineup in 2024 that includes Orelvis, Schneider, Horowitz, and Barger (and Tiedemann in the rotation, health permitting), and the team is still a strong playoff contender, then it would certainly be a good sign towards the "sustainable contention" model that the front office spoke about.

[Omar]

Because he's a corner OF who's coming off a horrible season? Not to say some teams won't give him a 2 or 3 year offer, but it seems doubtful he's going to sign a 4-6 year deal. He's 100% a candidate to sign a 1 year pillow deal to try and rebuild himself to cash in on a bigger, long term deal.

 

Yeah so he isn’t going to sign a one year deal. I bet he gets a three year contract. 2 plus option.

[Brownie19]

Yeah so he isn’t going to sign a one year deal. I bet he gets a three year contract. 2 plus option.

 

We'll see. A corner OFer with bad defense and a high K rate is pretty common these days. I guess Haniger got 3 years, but guys like Joc and Duvall only got 1 year deals this past offseason.

[glory]

Gotta fill other holes dude. KK and Varsho in the same OF is redundant

 

Yeah, Varsho and KK in the same OF doesn't make sense. They had no choice but to make it work this season since they acquired Varsho after already signing KK. I can't imagine they want to have that configuration beyond this season, at least I hope not. Move Varsho to CF, hope he has a wRC+ around 90-100 (which combined with his defense/base running would be a valuable player), and then get more offense from LF. Wouldn't shock me if they try to buy low on Tyler O'Neill, or something along those lines.

[G-Snarls]

So significant salaries gone will probably be:

 

Chapman

Ryu

KK

Belt

Probably DeJong

 

Where would payroll be after that?

[Daniel Labude]

So significant salaries gone will probably be:

 

Chapman

Ryu

KK

Belt

Probably DeJong

 

Where would payroll be after that?

 

~222M now

 

50M free from

 

Chapman

Ryu

KK

Belt

 

8M free from paying retained salaries

 

Leaves about 164M before raises

 

 

Probably 40-50M (depending on raises) could be spent on

 

Additional bat with 2B, 3B, OF positioning, with the possibility to DH

RPs

 

Options on DeJong and Chad Green are 21.5M, probably not picked up

 

But I think they may want to be under 200M if the prospects can fill roles next season

[THANOS]

So significant salaries gone will probably be:

 

Chapman

Ryu

KK

Belt

Probably DeJong

 

Where would payroll be after that?

 

- Re-sign Hicks

- Bichette extension

- Jansen extension

- 3B/LF short term plug

 

That's my guess.

[THANOS]

~222M now

 

50M free from

 

Chapman

Ryu

KK

Belt

 

8M free from paying retained salaries

 

Leaves about 164M before raises

 

 

Probably 40-50M (depending on raises) could be spent on

 

Additional bat with 2B, 3B, OF positioning, with the possibility to DH

RPs

 

Options on DeJong and Chad Green are 21.5M, probably not picked up

 

But I think they may want to be under 200M if the prospects can fill roles next season

 

I think Green's option is picked up. I agree that DeJong's likely isn't.

[G-Snarls]

~222M now

 

50M free from

 

Chapman

Ryu

KK

Belt

 

8M free from paying retained salaries

 

Leaves about 164M before raises

 

 

Probably 40-50M (depending on raises) could be spent on

 

Additional bat with 2B, 3B, OF positioning, with the possibility to DH

RPs

 

Options on DeJong and Chad Green are 21.5M, probably not picked up

 

But I think they may want to be under 200M if the prospects can fill roles next season

 

DeJong no

 

I expect they HOPE Green is good enough to pay one of the multiple possible option scenarios they signed him for. They put a lot of effort into the contract to both protect themselves but also allow him to be held onto if he's great again.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/toronto-blue-jays/chad-green-19806/#:~:text=Chad%20Green%20signed%20a%202,a%20total%20salary%20of%20%242%2C250%2C000.