GDT: Jays @ Mariners GM 1 of 3... #NorthernInvasion

[RobinThicc]

Mariners own the blue jays unfortunately

[Captain_Obvious]

Mariners games are blacked out here so I can’t watch them. Doesn’t look like I missed much. Seems lately they go into a tailspin around the time they play at Seattle.

 

You missed one of the worst managed games in recent memory. Here are some highlights:

1- Pulled Kikuchi way early when he was doing really well.

2- Used f***ing Espinal with his 76 wRC+ as a pinch hitter for the second time this week. WTF?! It is not like Espinal.is killing lefties. He sucks even more against them. What makes someone look at Espinal's stats.and then think "oh f*** ya I will use this guy as a pinch hitter"?

3- Did not pinch hit for Belt at second late in the game with Kiermaier on the bench.

4- Bottom 9th, 2 outs, runners on 2nd and 3rd with Teo batting. How the f*** do you NOT walk Teo to setup force plays? Is this not elementary?

[Daniel Labude]

We scoring 12 runs on Saturday

[WryNGinger]

You missed one of the worst managed games in recent memory. Here are some highlights:

1- Pulled Kikuchi way early when he was doing really well.

2- Used f***ing Espinal with his 76 wRC+ as a pinch hitter for the second time this week. WTF?! It is not like Espinal.is killing lefties. He sucks even more against them. What makes someone look at Espinal's stats.and then think "oh f*** ya I will use this guy as a pinch hitter"?

3- Did not pinch hit for Belt at second late in the game with Kiermaier on the bench.

4- Bottom 9th, 2 outs, runners on 2nd and 3rd with Teo batting. How the f*** do you NOT walk Teo to setup force plays? Is this not elementary?

 

Frustrating game to watch for sure. As a casual fan you are watching the game and being full-on "what the f*** are they doing that for" is kinda alarming. Schneider s batter and pitcher subs tonight opened up a lot of questions.

[JaysAllMighty]

Lets win the next two, my crystal ball said to walk Teo but....

 

[DigitalRock]

Schneider is dumb that is all.

[DigitalRock]

Falling 3-2 in a walkoff Friday, the #BlueJays are 2-10 in their last 10 games at Seattle and 5-13 in their last 18 vs the Mariners overall (including postseason). TOR's held the lead in the 7th inning during 5 of the last 6 such defeats & were up by 2+ runs in each of the last 3

[Olerud363]

You missed one of the worst managed games in recent memory. Here are some highlights:

1- Pulled Kikuchi way early when he was doing really well.

2- Used f***ing Espinal with his 76 wRC+ as a pinch hitter for the second time this week. WTF?! It is not like Espinal.is killing lefties. He sucks even more against them. What makes someone look at Espinal's stats.and then think "oh f*** ya I will use this guy as a pinch hitter"?

3- Did not pinch hit for Belt at second late in the game with Kiermaier on the bench.

4- Bottom 9th, 2 outs, runners on 2nd and 3rd with Teo batting. How the f*** do you NOT walk Teo to setup force plays? Is this not elementary?

 

Wow. That was the worst managed game I've seen in a long time.

 

I agree with the 'pull the pitcher early' move in the right context, on a day when the key bullpen guys are rested or with an offday to follow. So it often makes sense in the playoffs, or the day after a 12-0 win or loss or something, or day before an off day. The stats totally back-up the move.

 

This was an insanely terrible move given Swanson and Romano were used yesterday, and there is no off day for a week. Especially with Swanson already complaining he was fatigued.

 

So now they've gone heavy on the high leverage guys 2 days in a row, with 5 tough games coming up. Insane. Fire-able offense.

 

The Espinal and pinch run for belt moves were connected, since Espinal replaced Biggio, and Vlad was DHing, so no 1b men if Belt is out of the game. Maybe Merrifield could play first though?

[Olerud363]

Wow. That was the worst managed game I've seen in a long time.

 

I agree with the 'pull the pitcher early' move in the right context, on a day when the key bullpen guys are rested or with an offday to follow. So it often makes sense in the playoffs, or the day after a 12-0 win or loss or something, or day before an off day. The stats totally back-up the move.

 

This was an insanely terrible move given Swanson and Romano were used yesterday, and there is no off day for a week. Especially with Swanson already complaining he was fatigued.

 

So now they've gone heavy on the high leverage guys 2 days in a row, with 5 tough games coming up. Insane. Fire-able offense.

 

The Espinal and pinch run for belt moves were connected, since Espinal replaced Biggio, and Vlad was DHing, so no 1b men if Belt is out of the game. Maybe Merrifield could play first though?

 

Mariners sweep set-up by pulling Kikuchi early. Thanks Schneider...

 

Tonight -- more than likely Gaussman needs to be pulled after 6.0 in a close game, so the second class relievers will have to be used, they'll blow it Jays lose 3-2 again

 

Tomorrow -- Manoah - gives up his usual 3 or 4 in the first or second inning, but with Pearson and Jackson used Saturday they'll either have to let Manoah go longer, or kill the bullpen for the Dodgers series.

 

f***. Hope they realize they losing 22-4 is the right move Sunday. Let Manoah get creamed and don't use any relievers except Luplow.

[harvey16]

Why does Schneider insist on using Romano in tie games? Romano is the closer, he does not perform well whenever he is put in during a tie game. He should only be brought in when we are winning in a save situation. He's lost 5 games now when brought in when the game is tied.

[BigCecil]

Why does Schneider insist on using Romano in tie games? Romano is the closer, he does not perform well whenever he is put in during a tie game. He should only be brought in when we are winning in a save situation. He's lost 5 games now when brought in when the game is tied.

 

Honestly believe these are just voodoo numbers on his performance in non save situations. I just think its more bad luck and random than anything.

 

I have a fair bit of criticism on Schneider but in this case he is just using his best arm available to keep it tied, to have a chance of winning. Romano then proceeds to BB the #9. Who knew? I really can't fault him on that one.

[BigCecil]

Wow. That was the worst managed game I've seen in a long time.

 

I agree with the 'pull the pitcher early' move in the right context, on a day when the key bullpen guys are rested or with an offday to follow. So it often makes sense in the playoffs, or the day after a 12-0 win or loss or something, or day before an off day. The stats totally back-up the move.

 

This was an insanely terrible move given Swanson and Romano were used yesterday, and there is no off day for a week. Especially with Swanson already complaining he was fatigued.

 

So now they've gone heavy on the high leverage guys 2 days in a row, with 5 tough games coming up. Insane. Fire-able offense.

 

The Espinal and pinch run for belt moves were connected, since Espinal replaced Biggio, and Vlad was DHing, so no 1b men if Belt is out of the game. Maybe Merrifield could play first though?

 

Of course Merrifield could play 1B in a pinch. Its first base and he is also an IF. You do what you have to for the W. Every game is a playoff game these days with these standings.

[Spanky99]

Please don't go to extras, I have to be up in 5 hours..

 

Hah, I fell asleep and missed the shitshow.

[Olerud363]

Honestly believe these are just voodoo numbers on his performance in non save situations. I just think its more bad luck and random than anything.

 

I have a fair bit of criticism on Schneider but in this case he is just using his best arm available to keep it tied, to have a chance of winning. Romano then proceeds to BB the #9. Who knew? I really can't fault him on that one.

 

I think traditionally these silly rules, closer only in for save situations, best 3 relievers only in tie games or protecting leads worked because they prevented over-use. Could do it in a more sophisticated way just with some kind of game leverage and win probability formulas on the ipad or something. Problem is when closers are coming into tie games regularly and setup man is coming in down a run, they get gased.

 

I remember on Canada day when Swanson came in trailing 7-6 I told my wife that they just lost tomorrow's game too there... and I was being a bit over-the-top as I sometimes am, but turned out 100% correct in that case as a gased Swanson gave up a 4-2 lead in the 7th the next day.

 

No doubt in my mind something similar will happen today. Swanson and Romano are probably not even available now, and Richards and Garcia have been used a lot lately. And yesterday there wasn't even a reason to over-use relievers with Kikuchi at 75 pitches.

[bones10]

Was plenty of opportunities to tack on runs late, this game is once again on the bats and its a compounding issue that causes the team to have to its high leverage relievers more often and for longer periods.

[glory]

Schneider likely has an order to not use Kikuchi the 3rd time through the order. That's what their analytics tell them and the Jays consistently follow that rather than what's happening on the field. Sometimes they will be right, but times like yesterday they had to use more common sense, and they didn't do it.

[Spanky99]

Was plenty of opportunities to tack on runs late, this game is once again on the bats and its a compounding issue that causes the team to have to its high leverage relievers more often and for longer periods.

 

Yes, early in the year it was pitching and HR's and now recently it's been hitting, they have to put it together sooner rather than later and go on a run. Tough match-up today with Gilbert pitching, at least we have the Gasman going today. That game last night was a must win, and we faltered. Hopefully they get the next two, going to be tough, unless they wake the f*** up, and help out our blood pressure.

[Jays333]

Schneider likely has an order to not use Kikuchi the 3rd time through the order. That's what their analytics tell them and the Jays consistently follow that rather than what's happening on the field. Sometimes they will be right, but times like yesterday they had to use more common sense, and they didn't do it.

 

Exactly this. Pulling Kikuchi early everytime he pitches has dick head Atkins and s***** analytics written all over it. Everyone watching the game Schneider included im sure could see that Kuch was dealing and could have went up to 100 last night. But analytics say something else. I would give Schneids a pass there cause he is obviously just following orders. Some of the other decisions last night were pretty egregious though.

[Jonn]

Jays have lost 3 of 4. Not a good time for a slump. They also start Manoah Sunday. So winning today is paramount.

 

Spanky just continues to deliver losing GDT's again and again .

[Spanky99]

Jays have lost 3 of 4. Not a good time for a slump. They also start Manoah Sunday. So winning today is paramount.

 

Spanky just continues to deliver losing GDT's again and again .

 

5-2 when I stepped in cause no-one was making one, chickens. Make one Jonn, start a streak champ.

[Spanky99]

Here's the lineup's Jonn, lets go, man... copy pasta, my dude.

 

 

[John_Havok]

Schneider likely has an order to not use Kikuchi the 3rd time through the order. That's what their analytics tell them and the Jays consistently follow that rather than what's happening on the field. Sometimes they will be right, but times like yesterday they had to use more common sense, and they didn't do it.

 

It's a no win scenario for the manager. Had Kikuchi come in and given up a single and a 2 run homer(which would realistically surprise nobody), the same people complaining about the pen usage yesterday would be whining about how Schneider should have been taken him out since the numbers say he's always worse third time through.

[max silver]

It's a no win scenario for the manager. Had Kikuchi come in and given up a single and a 2 run homer(which would realistically surprise nobody), the same people complaining about the pen usage yesterday would be whining about how Schneider should have been taken him out since the numbers say he's always worse third time through.

 

This feels like a bit of a chicken and egg scenario where Kikuchi isn't going to be able to prove he can go deeper into games if he's always yanked at the first possible opportunity. Kikuchi's numbers are actually pretty good third time through the order this season. I'd have no issue with giving him more rope on a night where his stuff and command both looked to be in peak form.

[John_Havok]

This feels like a bit of a chicken and egg scenario where Kikuchi isn't going to be able to prove he can go deeper into games if he's always yanked at the first possible opportunity. Kikuchi's numbers are actually pretty good third time through the order this season. I'd have no issue with giving him more rope on a night where his stuff and command both looked to be in peak form.

 

True enough, never know if he can handle it without letting him do it, but at the same time, bringing in your best relief arms is hard to criticize when you're up by 2 and trying to win.

 

Not walking Teo was probably the only move I saw last night that I was really questioning. And even that... Teo sucks against sliders and it's not like Romano doesn't have a great one, so the line of thinking there is easy to see that Romano matches up good against Teo.

 

But when you have an open base and can set up a force anywhere AND pitch a worse hitter, that seems like a no brainer to me. We've even seen that same thing done by other managers against Vlad this season, letting him hit with 1 or 2 outs and an open base with runners on 1st and second.

[BigCecil]

It's a no win scenario for the manager. Had Kikuchi come in and given up a single and a 2 run homer(which would realistically surprise nobody), the same people complaining about the pen usage yesterday would be whining about how Schneider should have been taken him out since the numbers say he's always worse third time through.

 

I would have gladly lived with it. Kooch didn’t have his normal command/stuff. He threw 25 fastballs 96 or better last night. Read the room.

[John_Havok]

I would have gladly lived with it. Kooch didn’t have his normal command/stuff. He threw 25 fastballs 96 or better last night. Read the room.

 

It's always easy to say in hindsight that "you would have lived with it" when you know the alternative outcome.

[max silver]

True enough, never know if he can handle it without letting him do it, but at the same time, bringing in your best relief arms is hard to criticize when you're up by 2 and trying to win.

 

Not walking Teo was probably the only move I saw last night that I was really questioning. And even that... Teo sucks against sliders and it's not like Romano doesn't have a great one, so the line of thinking there is easy to see that Romano matches up good against Teo.

 

But when you have an open base and can set up a force anywhere AND pitch a worse hitter, that seems like a no brainer to me. We've even seen that same thing done by other managers against Vlad this season, letting him hit with 1 or 2 outs and an open base with runners on 1st and second.

 

I'd like to see Kikuchi be given a little more rope in games where he's dealing like he was last night. He was absolutely dominating the Mariners and it didn't seem like he had started faltering at any point in the game. Last night the team was receiving a top of the rotation level of performance from their number 5 starter, and it felt entirely premature to give him the hook after a runner got on base due to a soft serve infield single.

 

Kikuchi has made dramatic gains compared to last season and I just can't shake the feeling the team is ultimately doing itself a bit of a disservice with the quick hooks on days where he's completely in command of the game.

[BigCecil]

It's always easy to say in hindsight that "you would have lived with it" when you know the alternative outcome.

 

Spare me the lectures. Not my first rodeo with baseball but thanks.