GDT: Toronto Blow Jays @ Tampa Bay Unbeatables

[Blue Jays Lurker 2023]

Can we all agree that Alkins hasn't been good as his job?

 

2 years ago no one would have ever believed we'd be lucky enough to be spending up against the luxury tax, and that's without having Bo or Vlad signed long term.

 

The farm is barren, there's no one there to help us and we need it desperately.

 

Shapiro has been great with the Player development complex and the RC renos. But despite trashing AA for trading the farm and vowing to build a strong pipeline with the farm system, they have failed to develop the prospect pipeline that they said would keep them sustainable.

 

Instead they've had to spend, spend, spend to try to fill in the holes that the weak farm system couldn't fill.

 

Now we are absolutely f***ed. Highest payroll in franchise history by a country mile so we should be at the top. Our future outlook is not good right now.

 

I would have loved to see what AA could have done with 230+ million to spend.

 

I've been a die-hard fan since 1986 and this is about as frustrated as I've ever been with this team.

 

And let me cap it off with a massive f*** you to Spanx in advance of his inevitable ass response to this post.

 

If ever they fire Atkins, the earliest would be this coming offseason.

 

But he can easily make some moves this trade deadline if the Jays are still within striking distance in getting one of the wild card spots. He may just save his job if they turn it around. Otherwise, his seat should be warmer by now.

[Blue Jays Lurker 2023]

I did not like that trade when it happened and like it even less right now. I knew we were going to trade one of Gurriel or Teo, but I honestly thought we'd try to sign the one we didn't trade and I was a big supporter of converting Moreno to another position and keeping him if they weren't going to trade Kirk or Jansen. It seemed like that's what they were doing when they had him playing at other positions in the minors.

 

When you really look at it, it was more of a haphazard move like buying something you are so eager to get but didn’t realize you paid way more than what should be the right value.

[Spanky99]

 

And let me cap it off with a massive f*** you to Spanx in advance of his inevitable ass response to this post.

 

Livin' in your head rent free, chickenshit, hypocrite.

[Stangstag]

I did not like that trade when it happened and like it even less right now. I knew we were going to trade one of Gurriel or Teo, but I honestly thought we'd try to sign the one we didn't trade and I was a big supporter of converting Moreno to another position and keeping him if they weren't going to trade Kirk or Jansen. It seemed like that's what they were doing when they had him playing at other positions in the minors.

 

Yeah I was very surprised they traded both. I wonder if they decide to bring one of them back next year

[Nexii]

Could some of the Jays problem be culture? Do other teams have issues with players showing up out of shape? Vlad in the past, Manoah this year, debatably Kirk too. A lot of lack of hustle too, I feel like every other game there's a play that if legged out would have been a hit or extra base. I get that it's a long season but it often feels like the team isn't being managed to give their best.

 

I feel like it goes deeper into the player development approach as well... teams like the Rays seem to develop average players into above-average. Maybe the Jays will see the results of the better development facilities, but this year a lot of players have taken a step back.

[Stottlemyres_Bloody_Chin]

When you really look at it, it was more of a haphazard move like buying something you are so eager to get but didn’t realize you paid way more than what should be the right value.

 

Yep

 

But then what did he see in Varsho that he just had to have him no matter the cost?

 

He f***ed up big time on that trade. It's not too early to say that. He'll I said it from day 1. I don't hate Varsho, I hate that we vastly overpaid for him. The only way I would have traded Moreno in that deal was if Carrol was coming back.

 

Varsho was never going to be good enough to solve our problem of needing a power hitting lefty bat for lineup balance. It was a trade made for the sake of making a trade. They threw s*** at the wall and hoped it would stick. It didn't.

[Stottlemyres_Bloody_Chin]

Livin' in your head rent free, chickenshit, hypocrite.

 

I'm just trying to save posts by telling you to f*** off in advance.

[BigCecil]

Vlad brain is just broken when the pressure is on. He assumes the pitcher will throw him something hittable and just decides to swing first pitch every time.

 

Feeling nostalgic for that patient power of JD and Jose today.

 

They were so locked often in and passed the baton when they didn't get their pitch (is this statically true? I don't know. I haven't looked in forever. I'm just feeling nostalgic lol)

[Terminator]

Vlad has to be the most angsty good hitter in a clutch spot. He just can't look for a good pitch, just has to make an impact on anything close to the zone and as usual makes weak contact as a result of swinging at junk.

 

Vlad brain is just broken when the pressure is on. He assumes the pitcher will throw him something hittable and just decides to swing first pitch every time.

 

Yeah he is pressing so hard right now but I agree. He's just swinging at everything.

[Blue Jays Lurker 2023]

Yep

 

But then what did he see in Varsho that he just had to have him no matter the cost?

 

He f***ed up big time on that trade. It's not too early to say that. He'll I said it from day 1. I don't hate Varsho, I hate that we vastly overpaid for him. The only way I would have traded Moreno in that deal was if Carrol was coming back.

 

Varsho was never going to be good enough to solve our problem of needing a power hitting lefty bat for lineup balance. It was a trade made for the sake of making a trade. They threw s*** at the wall and hoped it would stick. It didn't.

 

Impulsive buying

[Terminator]

Stottlemyre's Bloody Nut Sack is back after the loss.

 

Dude was nowhere to be seen when we won 20-1 or when we are playing well in general.

[BigCecil]

If ever they fire Atkins, the earliest would be this coming offseason.

 

But he can easily make some moves this trade deadline if the Jays are still within striking distance in getting one of the wild card spots. He may just save his job if they turn it around. Otherwise, his seat should be warmer by now.

 

There won't be anything easy about deadline moves. Prices were sky high in '22 with wildcard format and more teams in it. A lot of our chips to trade in '23 are already in. Pray for Ryu and Green bro.

[Spanky99]

I'm just trying to save posts by telling you to f*** off in advance.

 

[DigitalRock]

Man we pinch hit a guy we traded two players for with a guy with a career .ops of a little over .500

[John_Havok]

Feeling nostalgic for that patient power of JD and Jose today.

 

They were so locked often in and passed the baton when they didn't get their pitch (is this statically true? I don't know. I haven't looked in forever. I'm just feeling nostalgic lol)

 

Hard to say without looking at splits, which dont really allow for much context. but...career #'s incoming

 

Vlad Jr with 2 outs and RISP: 247 PA, triple slash of .298/.389/.479 - 10 HR, 30 walks

JD with 2 outs and RISP: 546 PA, triple slash of .249/.379/.417 - 15 HR, 91 walks

Bautista with 2 outs and RISP: 742 PA, triple slash of .213/.402/.420 - 26 HR, 169 walks.

 

Bautisita definitely wins the patience category there.

[BigCecil]

Stottlemyre's Bloody Nut Sack is back after the loss.

 

Dude was nowhere to be seen when we won 20-1 or when we are playing well in general.

 

Got to admit he has a good name. I'll never forget that 15-14 game Sottlemyre started in the rain - got lit up and did a face plant.

[Blue Jays Lurker 2023]

Could some of the Jays problem be culture? Do other teams have issues with players showing up out of shape? Vlad in the past, Manoah this year, debatably Kirk too. A lot of lack of hustle too, I feel like every other game there's a play that if legged out would have been a hit or extra base. I get that it's a long season but it often feels like the team isn't being managed to give their best.

 

I feel like it goes deeper into the player development approach as well... teams like the Rays seem to develop average players into above-average. Maybe the Jays will see the results of the better development facilities, but this year a lot of players have taken a step back.

 

Maybe the lack of leadership.

 

Belt, Bassitt and KK are valuable vets but they are new to the team. Gausman is not in his personality.

 

Springer to me is more of a follower.

 

Bo and Vlad possibly down the road but still don’t have enough playoff stripes to rise to the top. The organization should invest in Vlad’s communication and language skills. Honestly, they really have to encourage him for his personal growth if they intend to invest on him long term.

 

What is most unfortunate is what is happening to Manoah early season woes. He is a perfect candidate to be a young vocal leader but very difficult to assume that role when your performance is diving faster than you can recover. His confidence is shut.

 

The reason why this team is badly needing a more experience Manager. Schneider can still be a great Manager to a young and upcoming team. The Blue Jays have aspirations this season to be contenders. JS have significant flaws.

[BigCecil]

Could some of the Jays problem be culture? Do other teams have issues with players showing up out of shape? Vlad in the past, Manoah this year, debatably Kirk too. A lot of lack of hustle too, I feel like every other game there's a play that if legged out would have been a hit or extra base. I get that it's a long season but it often feels like the team isn't being managed to give their best.

 

I feel like it goes deeper into the player development approach as well... teams like the Rays seem to develop average players into above-average. Maybe the Jays will see the results of the better development facilities, but this year a lot of players have taken a step back.

 

No offence but I just reject these narratives. Teo and LGJ and the home run jacket were made villain's by many with any disappointment over '21 and '22.

 

Most of us had issues with Buntoyo. I did. He is gone. In come Schneids preaching its about attention to detail and the little things. They have Belt and Springer who have won championships on the squad. KK has had a ton of team success.

 

But here we are in '23. Still 2/3 of the season left so we'll see how it all pans out but maybe this team just isn't as good collectively as we thought/hoped.

[John_Havok]

I love it when the fault of players underachieveing gets placed on intangibles like lack of leadership, especially when not a single person making those comments has the first f***ing clue what goes in the clubhouse.

[Stottlemyres_Bloody_Chin]

Stottlemyre's Bloody Nut Sack is back after the loss.

 

Dude was nowhere to be seen when we won 20-1 or when we are playing well in general.

 

I come here to vent after losses, is that allowed? Or is that not allowed? I didn't see that in the "rule book".

 

Also, I was at my daughter's game during the 20-1 win, so lick my nutsack!

[Stottlemyres_Bloody_Chin]

Got to admit he has a good name. I'll never forget that 15-14 game Sottlemyre started in the rain - got lit up and did a face plant.

 

Thank you! I'll never forget that game either! I was 12.

[Spanky99]

Blue Jays xBA .303

 

Rays - xBA .187

[JaysFan99]

Feeling nostalgic for that patient power of JD and Jose today.

 

They were so locked often in and passed the baton when they didn't get their pitch (is this statically true? I don't know. I haven't looked in forever. I'm just feeling nostalgic lol)

 

Bautista was so awesome. I remember a game against the Rays where he had a walk off hit to win 4-3 and he was 4-4 with 2 HRs and all 4 RBIs. He could carry the team. His 2 home runs in game 6 of the ALCS vs. the Royals were extremely clutch and not talked about much because of the outcome. Too bad nobody else could step up.

 

Blue Jays xBA .303

 

Rays - xBA .187

 

That sounds about right. It feels like nothing is going our way so far. The baseball gods owe us a crazy second half winning streak.

[glory]

Is there a reason, other than "Schneider gonna Schneider", that Clement pinch hit for Varsho?

[John_Havok]

Sometimes flaws just happen because humans are humans. Every player on the team knows they are scuffling right now and as a result are trying to go the extra mile and play harder to make something happen. Unfortunately, that sometimes results in plays like Kiermaier today trying to cut off a double that turns into a triple. Or, forcing a throw that shouldnt be forced. Or, deciding to swing at that first pitch with 2 outs in the 9th even when its not a hittable pitch. Trying to steal 2nd and oversliding the base. Any number of we've seen in the past week to 2 weeks that is monumentally frustrating to watch as a fan...

 

But I'd rather see those kind of hustle/aggressive mistakes than seeing guys who just drift through the game. It's far easier to channel that energy into something positive than it is to push a rock up a hill.

 

It's also impossible to completely rid it from people, because they are people.

 

Long story short, fire the mental conditioning coach.

[John_Havok]

Is there a reason, other than "Schneider gonna Schneider", that Clement pinch hit for Varsho?

 

Varsho vs lefties is about as sure an out as there is most nights.

[Nexii]

Well they aren't that far off projections. Projections said 89 wins, current pythag W/L is 86 wins

 

Unless you're a super team you have to exceed the projections to make it

[Omar]

There was a poster on these boards who dubbed Teoscar the Mirage a few years back. Turns out the mirage was Manoah.

[glory]

Varsho vs lefties is about as sure an out as there is most nights.

 

But when the alternative is Ernie Clement? The optics of trading a top 10 prospect in baseball (plus a good hitter as a throw in) for a player who the manager trusts less than a career minor leaguer against LHP is pretty bad.

[Terminator]

But when the alternative is Ernie Clement? The optics of trading a top 10 prospect in baseball (plus a good hitter as a throw in) for a player who the manager trusts less than a career minor leaguer against LHP is pretty bad.

 

Lol yeah that's pretty rough