GDT: 3/3 Baltimore Orioles @ Toronto Blue Jays (1:37 ET)

[G-Snarls]

Team is better than they're playing right now

 

It's sure frustrating to watch though

[jaysblue]

The bats need to get going. In a huge funk right now.

[Olerud363]

The difference this year is the entire division has taken a step forward. I don't expect the Red Sox to ultimately be that good but they can definitely float a few games over .500 the whole season. The Orioles look pretty legit and are primed to add Starting Pitching whenever it becomes available.

 

Exactly. One thing I've found to be true over the years is that the fan hive mind is much better than the Wilner/Stoeten corporate fake positivity ********. Every time the fans 'panic' and Wilner/Stoeten give them the 'we are still on pace for...', 'still only 3 games out of a playoff spot', still 100 games to go...' the playoff probabilities have taken a huge hit in the cluster of games the fans are complaining about, the insufferable fans get it, Wilner/Stoeten don't.

 

Last 2 weeks have dropped Jays playoff chances from a high of about 85% to now 50%. That is a huge drop, and has changed this season from a comfortable ride to the playoffs, to at the best a stressful grind to a wild card spot and at the worst a 2013 like season. The nature of the season has completely changed, the upside way lower, the downside way worse.

 

Of course 50% chance of making the playoffs mean they still could but even if so the rest of the year is now a stress-fest.

[max silver]

Swept by Boston and Baltimore and lost 3/4 to the Yankees - the game we won we we were shut out through 9. Bassitt stole us a game. We beat Atlanta but their defence lost them their games rather than us actually beating them.

 

Garcia is a $5m dollar reliever that Houston let walk away because they didn't feel he was worth that - in other words, he wasn't good enough to make their pen. He's our number 2/3 arm. I know some are slaves to WAR but BP arms matter. But big arms in the pen are tough to get and our farm isn't brimming with talent to trade.

 

In Garcia's defense he had to have been running on fumes yesterday. That was his 4th appearance in 5 days, and 5th appearance in a week's time. Leading into yesterday's game he had actually been pitching pretty well over nearly the last month.

[max silver]

Team is better than they're playing right now

 

It's sure frustrating to watch though

 

If there's any silver lining in all of this it's that the team was positioned to win a large chunk of these games if they simply managed to hit better with runners in scoring position. There were a lot of good starts from the rotation which gave the team a shot to win most of the time.

[Terminator]

Exactly. One thing I've found to be true over the years is that the fan hive mind is much better than the Wilner/Stoeten corporate fake positivity ********. Every time the fans 'panic' and Wilner/Stoeten give them the 'we are still on pace for...', 'still only 3 games out of a playoff spot', still 100 games to go...' the playoff probabilities have taken a huge hit in the cluster of games the fans are complaining about, the insufferable fans get it, Wilner/Stoeten don't.

 

So you're telling me that when Wilner had his radio show where the whole schtick was to have dipshit casuals with double digit IQs call in so Wilner could pummel them on air, you actually sided with the arguments of the double digit IQ fans? lol

[BTS]

Everyone praising Baltimore needs to stop. Doing nothing to improve that good young team in the offseason was absurd. And that's more apparent now that they look like a possible playoff team. Loser mentality to see the core in place and supplement it with Jordan Lyles, Adam Frazier, and Kyle Gibson.

[Olerud363]

So you're telling me that when Wilner had his radio show where the whole schtick was to have dipshit casuals with double digit IQs call in so Wilner could pummel them on air, you actually sided with the arguments of the double digit IQ fans? lol

 

No. I said they are a hive mind, which means stupid individually but they can recognize some things all together. Kind of like bees.

 

Absolutely not saying any individual fan who thinks we should hit Merrifield lead off or something (sorry to the 'let's get witty' thread starter) have any intelligence. Wilner is smarter than most of them individually.

 

Just saying that a lot of times when the hive of fans gets panicky it corresponds with big changes in the playoff probabilities.

 

So like this week Wilner is like 100 games left, still on pace for 96 wins, I mean 91, I mean 85. Still in a playoff spot, I mean still within 2 games of a playoff spot, blah, blah, blah. Meanwhile Joe fan somehow gets that they playoff odds have gone down quite a bit, while Wilner just acts like everything is the same as it was 10 days ago.

[John_Havok]

Everyone praising Baltimore needs to stop. Doing nothing to improve that good young team in the offseason was absurd. And that's more apparent now that they look like a possible playoff team. Loser mentality to see the core in place and supplement it with Jordan Lyles, Adam Frazier, and Kyle Gibson.

 

I just stop short of the currently supported narrative by some that Baltimore is somehow now seen a successful and well run franchise. Why? Because they sucked by 6 years and picked top overall twice and 2nd once and were lucky enough to have absolute studs available to them as a result? That doesn’t make you a good franchise.

 

What you do after that to get to the playoffs and maybe win a World Series, and then build a successful long term winner is what makes franchises great. Continued cycles of 6 years tanking and 5 years maybe competing, then 6 years tanking again is not a well run franchise.

 

Yankees, Houston, Dodgers are the cream of the crop in being well run franchises, Atlanta, St Louis…Tampa is about ready to join that club too now that they’ve seemingly got past the s***** down cycles.

[Spanky99]

So you're telling me that when Wilner had his radio show where the whole schtick was to have dipshit casuals with double digit IQs call in so Wilner could pummel them on air, you actually sided with the arguments of the double digit IQ fans? lol

 

lmao

[max silver]

I just stop short of the currently supported narrative by some that Baltimore is somehow now seen a successful and well run franchise. Why? Because they sucked by 6 years and picked top overall twice and 2nd once and were lucky enough to have absolute studs available to them as a result? That doesn’t make you a good franchise.

 

What you do after that to get to the playoffs and maybe win a World Series, and then build a successful long term winner is what makes franchises great. Continued cycles of 6 years tanking and 5 years maybe competing, then 6 years tanking again is not a well run franchise.

 

Yankees, Houston, Dodgers are the cream of the crop in being well run franchises, Atlanta, St Louis…Tampa is about ready to join that club too now that they’ve seemingly got past the s***** down cycles.

 

Baltimore was also fortunate that tanking was still a viable strategy due to the lack of an MLB draft lottery. MLB should have done something to address the plague of tanking occurring across the league where it seemed like a very large portion of clubs were making literally no attempt to actually win any games (some teams like the Rockies were simply completely incompetent). If anything the draft lottery doesn't go far enough.

[Olerud363]

Everyone praising Baltimore needs to stop. Doing nothing to improve that good young team in the offseason was absurd. And that's more apparent now that they look like a possible playoff team. Loser mentality to see the core in place and supplement it with Jordan Lyles, Adam Frazier, and Kyle Gibson.

 

They signed Lyles after their horrible 2021 as just a guy to fill space, then replaced him with Gibson this year. Judging by lifetime stats that was a small upgrade, and in retrospect a huge move (as Lyle as fallen apart while Gibson has been a reliable innings eater.

 

Adam Frazier was a good move, equivalent to Whitt Merrifield, because they already had young infielders and don't want to block anyone, but Frazier is a guy who can fill in when needed repectfully without blocking a spot.

 

Those moves actually hint that Baltimore is a very good franchise.

[Olerud363]

I just stop short of the currently supported narrative by some that Baltimore is somehow now seen a successful and well run franchise. Why? Because they sucked by 6 years and picked top overall twice and 2nd once and were lucky enough to have absolute studs available to them as a result? That doesnÂ’t make you a good franchise.

 

What you do after that to get to the playoffs and maybe win a World Series, and then build a successful long term winner is what makes franchises great. Continued cycles of 6 years tanking and 5 years maybe competing, then 6 years tanking again is not a well run franchise.

 

Yankees, Houston, Dodgers are the cream of the crop in being well run franchises, Atlanta, St LouisÂ…Tampa is about ready to join that club too now that theyÂ’ve seemingly got past the s***** down cycles.

 

Not sure about Rutchman, but Druw Jones was the top ranked player in the draft last year on most lists. I saw lists with Holliday 3rd but Orioles correctly identified the best talent when it wasn't totally obvious at the time. They've done a great job at identifying the right player to take 1/1 when they were handed that slot.

[max silver]

Not sure about Rutchman, but Druw Jones was the top ranked player in the draft last year on most lists. I saw lists with Holliday 3rd but Orioles correctly identified the best talent when it wasn't totally obvious at the time. They've done a great job at identifying the right player to take 1/1 when they were handed that slot.

 

When you are picking top 3 it would be pretty damn hard to not end up with a very good player most years.

[Spanky99]

This was the top 5 predraft...

 

1

Druw Jones

Wesleyan HS, Norcross, Ga.OF

Notes:

HT: 6-4 | Wt: 180 | B-T: R-R

Commit/Drafted: Vanderbilt

Age At Draft: 18.6

BA Grade: 65/Very High

Tools: Hit: 60. Power: 55. Run: 70. Field: 70. Arm: 65.

 

Unsurprisingly, the son of five-time all-star and 10-time Gold Glove center fielder Andruw Jones is an excellent defensive center fielder as well. Druw is the top player in the 2022 draft class thanks to his unique combination of present skills, projection and loud supplemental tools while handling a premium defensive position. Jones stood out during the summer showcase circuit with plenty of hard contact and the ability to drive the ball with authority to the right-center gap. His swing wasn’t always the most fluid or ‘hitterish’ and at times he would get out of sync with his lower and upper halves, resulting in lots of ground ball outs, but he has improved the consistency of that swing this spring. Jones has an advanced approach at the plate with solid pitch recognition and pure bat-to-ball skills. As he continues to add strength to a lean frame, he should grow into above-average or plus raw power, and he could become a plus hitter with above-average game power. He’s a lock to play center field at the highest level and is one of the best defensive outfielders scouts have seen in years, with the instincts and physical tools necessary to be a 70-grade defender at the position. Scouting directors unanimously named Jones the best defensive outfielder in the high school class prior to the season, and he has a case as the best defender in the entire class as well. He’s a double-plus runner with a fantastic first step that allows him to track difficult balls into the gaps and to the fence with instinctual route-running ability on top of that. His arm strength is a cherry on top of his tool set and it’s at least plus with some scouts putting 70 grades on his throwing ability as well. If Jones weren’t such a dynamic center fielder, teams might be inclined to try him at shortstop as well, where he shows advanced actions and instincts as an infielder. Jones is committed to Vanderbilt but is expected to be one of the first players selected in the 2022 draft. He has all-star upside and should impact the game in many ways.

 

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2

Brooks Lee

Cal PolySS

Notes:

HT: 6-2 | Wt: 205 | B-T: B-R

Commit/Drafted: Giants '19 (35)

Age At Draft: 21.4

BA Grade: 60/High

Tools: Hit: 70. Power: 50. Run: 40. Field: 50. Arm: 55.

 

The son of Cal Poly coach and renowned hitting guru Larry Lee, Brooks has long been an elite hitter and would have been a top-50 pick out of high school if not for his strong commitment to play for his father in college. A hamstring injury and the coronavirus pandemic limited him to two at-bats as a freshman, but he lived up to his reputation as a premium hitter once play resumed. Lee hit .342 to win Big West Conference co-player of the year as a redshirt freshman and torched the Cape Cod League with a .405/.432/.677 slash line for Yarmouth-Dennis in the summer. He followed with a standout showing for USA Baseball’s Collegiate National Team and hit .357 with 15 home runs and a 1.125 OPS this spring, all career highs. Lee is a gifted switch-hitter with exceptional hitting ability. He takes short, balanced swings with elite bat speed from the left side and laces balls hard to all fields. His righthanded swing isn’t as fluid or powerful, but he has the hand-eye coordination to make consistent contact and spray balls around the field. He has elite strike-zone discipline, crushes fastballs and drives pitches in all parts of the zone, projecting as a potential plus-plus hitter. He has rarely faced good breaking stuff and will need to prove he can handle that. Lee has bulked up as he’s matured and is now a physical specimen with strong legs, broad shoulders and a chiseled torso. His strength and knack for barreling balls give him at least average power potential and likely more. Lee is an instinctive defender who positions himself well at shortstop and converts the routine plays with his reliable hands and above-average, accurate arm, but his bulk and below-average speed limit his range. He projects to move to second or third base, where he should be an average defender. Lee’s only major concern is his health. He missed time with multiple back injuries in high school and had hamstring surgery as a true freshman. His physical, maxed-out frame raises concerns about how his body will age. Even so, Lee’s premium hitting ability makes him a likely top-five pick in the draft. As long as he stays healthy, he projects to be a switch-hitting infielder who hits for average and power in the top half of a lineup.

 

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3

Jackson Holliday

Stillwater (Okla.) HSSS

Notes:

HT: 6-1 | Wt: 180 | B-T: L-R

Commit/Drafted: Oklahoma State

Age At Draft: 18.6

BA Grade: 65/Extreme

Tools: Hit: 60. Power: 55. Run: 60. Field: 55. Arm: 60.

 

The son of seven-time all-star and four-time Silver Slugger Matt Holliday, Jackson is a lefthanded-hitting, toolsy shortstop who significantly boosted his draft stock by getting bigger and stronger this spring. Holliday had an inconsistent performance on the showcase circuit last summer, where scouts saw him get big and aggressive with his swing and show more whiff tendencies than he did as an underclassman. Scouts with history watching Holliday believed he was simply looking to hit for power, rather than letting his developing power come naturally and he looked like his instinctual and natural hitting self this spring in Oklahoma, where he broke JT Realmuto’s national hits record. Holliday worked hard over the offseason and added plenty of strength—as well as a few inches of height—to his frame, while showing an impressive ability to drive the ball to the opposite field. He looks like a plus hitter when he is focused on the opposite field gap and willing to go the other way, instead of ripping out on his front side and trying to hunt homers like he did over the summer. Holliday still has room to add more strength to a 6-foot-1, 180-pound frame and he could grow into above-average power in the future. His tools improved across the board after his offseason in the weight room and he now shows plus running ability, above-average power and plus arm strength. In a class light on true shortstops, Holliday is the best bet of the top tier hitters in the class to stick at the position. He has solid hands and instincts, impressive athleticism and great carry and accuracy on his throws, which at times look like they are climbing into a second gear on the way to first base. He also shows a good understanding of where to position himself. Holliday is committed to Oklahoma State but has put himself in position to be one of the first players selected in the draft and has a special combination of tools, lefthanded-hitting ability, premium defensive positional value and professional bloodlines.

 

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4

Termarr Johnson

Mays HS, AtlantaSS

Notes:

HT: 5-8 | Wt: 194 | B-T: L-R

Commit/Drafted: Arizona State

Age At Draft: 18.1

BA Grade: 60/High

Tools: Hit: 70. Power: 60. Run: 45. Field: 50. Arm: 50.

 

Johnson is one of the most unique, top-of-the-class high school prospects the industry has seen in years. He’s a 5-foot-8, 194-pound shortstop who probably moves to second base at the next level and is close to physically maxed out, but he’s also one of the most advanced pure hitters to come out of high school since perhaps Joe Mauer in 2001. Johnson manipulates his bat from the left side of the plate like a magic wand, equally capable of turning on mid-90s velocity and showing 60-grade power to the pull or sitting back and slapping a breaking ball or offspeed offering through the 5-6 hole for a softly hit single. He was the top hitter on the showcase circuit and consistently performed no matter the competition and has a lengthy track record as an underclassman with USA Baseball. He has the rare amateur combination of excellent bat-to-ball skills, an advanced approach at the plate, impressive pitch recognition and more power than you’d expect given his frame, thanks to excellent bat speed and precise barrel accuracy. There are few holes to speak of in his game offensively and he has a real chance to be a 70-grade hitter. As a defender, Johnson is likely to move to second base due to limited range and arm strength that fits better on the right side of the infield. He’s sure-handed on balls he gets to and he turns a double play nicely, with quick footwork and a fast exchange, and profiles as an average defender. He is an average runner now, but it would be unsurprising for him to slow down a tick as he reaches physical maturity. Johnson committed to Arizona State late in the process but is expected to be a top-10 pick thanks to his hitting prowess. It’s certainly possible Johnson is selected as a shortstop, but if he is selected as a second baseman, he has a chance to top Delino DeShields (2010, No. 8) as the highest-ever drafted prep player at the position. There’s plenty of pressure on Johnson’s bat given his supplemental tool set, but it’s also hard to point to a recent high school hitter this advanced.

 

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5

Elijah Green

IMG Academy, Bradenton, Fla.OF

Notes:

HT: 6-3 | Wt: 214 | B-T: R-R

Commit/Drafted: Miami

Age At Draft: 18.6

BA Grade: 65/Extreme

Tools: Hit: 50. Power: 70. Run: 70. Field: 55. Arm: 60.

 

Green is one of the most dynamic and unique athletes scouts have seen on the baseball field in a long time. The son of 10-year NFL tight end Eric Green, Elijah’s physicality would stand out on a football field and is almost unheard of on the baseball field at his age. At 6-foot-3, 214 pounds, Green has tremendous strength and power currently and would look right at home standing next to the top sluggers in baseball as an 18-year-old. His power/speed combination with his frame gives him the biggest pure upside in the 2022 draft class as a righthanded hitter with the power to drive the ball out of any ballpark, while also turning in 70-grade run times. As one scout remarked, “Guys that big and that strong aren’t supposed to be running 6.5 in the 60.” Green isn’t a raw hitter without a plan at the plate either. He has an impressive track record of performance as an underclassman and accessed his power regularly in games over the summer showcase circuit, with USA Baseball’s 18U National Team—where he homered four times in seven games—and this spring against strong competition with IMG Academy. There is swing and miss in Green’s game. He’ll get caught out in front on breaking balls and he has shown whiff tendencies against velocity as well, but he should make more than enough impact to live with those whiffs. He has more than enough speed for center field now, and will likely begin his career at the position, but will need to refine his routes and reactions to stick there long term. It’s uncommon to see a major league center fielder with Green’s size, but he is an outlier athlete. If he does have to move to a corner he has the tools to be an above-average defender in right, with plus arm strength to profile nicely there. While other hitters in this class might top Green as a pure hitter, you won’t find anyone with his combination of dynamic athleticism, power, speed and pure upside.

[Olerud363]

Not sure about Rutchman, but Druw Jones was the top ranked player in the draft last year on most lists. I saw lists with Holliday 3rd but Orioles correctly identified the best talent when it wasn't totally obvious at the time. They've done a great job at identifying the right player to take 1/1 when they were handed that slot.

 

2017 DL Hall LHP 21

2018 Grayson Rodriguez 11

2018 Cadyn Grenier SS 37

2019 Adley Rutschman C 1

2020 Heston Kjerstad OF 2

2020 Jordan Westburg SS 30

2021 Colton Cowser OF 5

2022 Jackson Holliday 1

 

Orioles first round picks since 2017. Except for Grenier, who maybe quit or got released or something, they are all still highly ranked and all set to make an impact very soon. All set to hit together, on a competitive team with full service time left.

 

Blue Jays fans are slightly excited that Spencer Horwitz is hititng .320 .420 .420. Orioles prospect all hit .320 .420, with 10 homers instead of 1. Have 1st round draft pedigree, and play all across the defensive spectrum. So...

 

1. Take Spencer Horwitz and duplicate him 5 times

2. Make the duplicates 2-5 years younger

3. Give the duplicates high first round draft pedigree

4. Give the duplicates 10 times the homeruns (instead of 1 homer give them 10 or so)

 

It's having Bo and Vlad ready, with 3 other prospects almost as good, and the team already contending on the day they show up. The farm system is ridicolous.

 

Even if they are a mediocre organization they can't screw this up. If they are a good organization (which they are) this is going to be really scary.

[Olerud363]

When you are picking top 3 it would be pretty damn hard to not end up with a very good player most years.

 

It happens all the time though, like some Mickey guy the Phillies took a few years ago (though he's hot right now with LA). Or another year where Astros took Bregman 2nd and Rockies took a no one 3rd.

 

I don't actually know the pre-draft ranking were that year, but who knows if the 2 players were close and Houston just did really good research and it wasn't just luck they chose the right guy.

 

Or 2020, when Orioles and other teams passed on Austin Martin. Despite being ranked 1 on some lists.

 

Actually the guy the Orioles took ahead of Martin in 2020 is Kjerstad, was injured for 2 years, now is back and another dude hitting like Mickey Mantle in the high levels of their system.

 

Even with all the high round picks, the Orioles have either done a stellar job of avoiding duds and getting real good players.

[John_Havok]

Not sure about Rutchman, but Druw Jones was the top ranked player in the draft last year on most lists. I saw lists with Holliday 3rd but Orioles correctly identified the best talent when it wasn't totally obvious at the time. They've done a great job at identifying the right player to take 1/1 when they were handed that slot.

 

Impossible to know if Baltimore wanted Jones or Holliday, given that all these top guys probably had predraft deals agreed to in principle. For all we know Jones told them early on he was committed elsewhere so they moved on.

[Jimcanuck]

If they continue this run of success, I expect the O's to be active at the deadline. You don't need 5 starters in the postseason. Good chance the O's pick up the best starter available at the deadline, to supplement what they have.

 

i.e., I don't agree with BTS' take on the O's offseason

Edited May 22, 2023 by Jimcanuck

[Carlos Danger]

If they continue this run of success, I expect the O's to be active at the deadline. You don't need 5 starters in the postseason. Good chance the O's pick up the best starter available at the deadline, to supplement what they have.

 

I concur Doctor.

[Carlos Danger]

The fact of the matter is, as much as Baltimore has sucked the past number of years, at the end of the day, what more do we have to show for it then them?

 

We made the playoffs in 2015 and the Orioles were nowhere to be found, so we have that. We then played Orioles in the WC game in 2016 and it went to extra innings. We made the playoffs in 2020, in the COVID asterisk season and promptly lost in two games.

 

We then made the playoffs in 2022 via WC and lost in 2 games, the Orioles last year were actually making a run for a WC spot the second half.

 

So, not like we can sit atop some moral how to build a baseball team high horse and lecture the crappy Orioles.

[John_Havok]

The fact of the matter is, as much as Baltimore has sucked the past number of years, at the end of the day, what more do we have to show for it then them?

 

We made the playoffs in 2015 and the Orioles were nowhere to be found, so we have that. We then played Orioles in the WC game in 2016 and it went to extra innings. We made the playoffs in 2020, in the COVID asterisk season and promptly lost in two games.

 

We then made the playoffs in 2022 via WC and lost in 2 games, the Orioles last year were actually making a run for a WC spot the second half.

 

So, not like we can sit atop some moral how to build a baseball team high horse and lecture the crappy Orioles.

 

I’m not lecturing the Orioles, I’m lecturing the fair weather fans who are pointing at the Orioles right now and wondering why we can’t have that…when the simple answer is that those fans doing the finger pointing would never want to watch a team play .290 baseball for 5 seasons in order to get the top picks over that period. They constantly demand a winning team, but also constantly demand franchise altering generational draft picks when the team is picking in the 20-30 slots in the first round.

 

They watch the current results of a franchise who have had 6 seasons above .500 in the past 25 f***ing years and act like they’re some model to follow. Right now the Os are reaping the short term benefits of being unbelievably s***** for a quarter of a century. Look at the level of bitching and moaning about the Jays right no who have the 8th best record in baseball. What do you think the level of bitching would be if the Jays allowed themselves to be bottom-feeders for 25 years? They’d never support the team in those times and be constantly whining about how terrible the franchise is.

 

I’d rather see this years Jays team for the next 5 or 6 years than watch what’s gone on in Baltimore for the last 6.

[Carlos Danger]

I’m not lecturing the Orioles, I’m lecturing the fair weather fans who are pointing at the Orioles right now and wondering why we can’t have that…when the simple answer is that those fans doing the finger pointing would never want to watch a team play .290 baseball for 5 seasons in order to get the top picks over that period. They constantly demand a winning team, but also constantly demand franchise altering generational draft picks when the team is picking in the 20-30 slots in the first round.

 

They watch the current results of a franchise who have had 6 seasons above .500 in the past 25 f***ing years and act like they’re some model to follow. Right now the Os are reaping the short term benefits of being unbelievably s***** for a quarter of a century. Look at the level of bitching and moaning about the Jays right no who have the 8th best record in baseball. What do you think the level of bitching would be if the Jays allowed themselves to be bottom-feeders for 25 years? They’d never support the team in those times and be constantly whining about how terrible the franchise is.

 

I’d rather see this years Jays team for the next 5 or 6 years than watch what’s gone on in Baltimore for the last 6.

 

I understand your points. However, I think if you asked the fans in retrospect, if we should have traded JD at high value in the off season and some similar moves instead of waiting and having a meddling season, I think the majority would say that if they could do it over again would choose to have broken it down, sucked even more for just a bit and got some top specs from guys like JD.

[max silver]

I understand your points. However, I think if you asked the fans in retrospect, if we should have traded JD at high value in the off season and some similar moves instead of waiting and having a meddling season, I think the majority would say that if they could do it over again would choose to have broken it down, sucked even more for just a bit and got some top specs from guys like JD.

 

If you had a crystal ball and knew that Donaldson was going to suffer a series of career altering injuries in the future despite pretty pristine health up to that point then sure he should have been traded sooner.

[Terminator]

The Jays have been mediocre for 30 years since winning the World Series in ‘93. We’ve made the playoffs 4 times since then which is less than the Orioles.

 

Look at that username! Wow!

[max silver]

The Jays have been mediocre for 30 years since winning the World Series in ‘93. We’ve made the playoffs 4 times since then which is less than the Orioles.

 

It's certainly doesn't sound nearly as bad when you point out the team has made the playoffs 4 times in the last 8 seasons while narrowly missing by a single game in another.

[Carlos Danger]

If you had a crystal ball and knew that Donaldson was going to suffer a series of career altering injuries in the future despite pretty pristine health up to that point then sure he should have been traded sooner.

 

He was in his walk year, they apparently got some solid offers in the off season to include a rookie Jack Flaherty. I said in retrospect, as in if we could do it all over again. Point is, I think we would have accepted the suck that year if we could do it again.

[max silver]

He was in his walk year, they apparently got some solid offers in the off season to include a rookie Jack Flaherty. I said in retrospect, as in if we could do it all over again. Point is, I think we would have accepted the suck that year if we could do it again.

 

It's been since reported that the Flaherty rumors were ******** and not based in reality. We'll never know what the offers were at the time but I can see how the club would have wanted to bank on a healthier Donaldson at the trade deadline vs the potentially underwhelming offers they had at the time.

[Carlos Danger]

It's been since reported that the Flaherty rumors were ******** and not based in reality. We'll never know what the offers were at the time but I can see how the club would have wanted to bank on a healthier Donaldson at the trade deadline vs the potentially underwhelming offers they had at the time.

 

JD played only 113 games due to injury in 2017...So your assertion he had no prior injury history is incorrect.

 

Bob Nightingale reported the possible trade based on a source inside the Blue Jays org. There is a ton about it from both the Cards side and Blue Jays side and Nightingale is a credible writer... Makes me think it was legit, and not just a rumor from some blogger..

[John_Havok]

I understand your points. However, I think if you asked the fans in retrospect, if we should have traded JD at high value in the off season and some similar moves instead of waiting and having a meddling season, I think the majority would say that if they could do it over again would choose to have broken it down, sucked even more for just a bit and got some top specs from guys like JD.

 

Hindsight is always perfect. The majority of fans aren’t actually capable of big picture thinking and always say they of course would have accepted worse years 3 years ago if it means their team is better this year and definitely would have still showed up to the park ….because those years are already gone and they don’t have the memory of those s***** years so they think they wouldn’t have been so bad.

 

Then you look at reality, and see that of course those fans don’t support the team when the team is bad (see 2019 attendance) they really and truly are completely full of s***.