Former Blue Jays Thread

[BigCecil]

You want to bet a $100 that Varsho out WARS LGJ??? An admin can hold the cash, I'm already sending it.

 

Im gonna take that bet Spank if I can get in on it.

 

Not because I don't like Varsho or his glove and not because LGJ is a WAR machine in the past - but he is in his walk year and I expected his power to return in '23. Under rated bat to ball skills and his pitch selection has improved. His D sucks but think he is going to have his best offensive year by a lot. (I'll also be happy to be wrong and pay up if I lose)

[jaysblue]

...

 

Lmao I was joking. I was saying you should get better odds rather than just betting $100 each because the other guy you were arguing with said Varsho sucks. You should get $200 if you win, while he gets $100. He should be for that especially if he feels Varsho is awful.

 

And yes I was for the trade at the time. Has my stance on the trade shifted a bit because of Moreno's and LGJ's hot starts while Varsho and Kirk/Jansen have been struggling? Yes they have. It's looking like Arizona might do very well not just in long term, but short term as well. If Varsho just ends up being a 2-3 WAR player this season, definitely will be disappointed. If he ends up being a 4-5 WAR player, different story. So far Varsho hasn't looked like a 4-5 WAR player.

[Pendleton]

[Pendleton]

[Spanky99]

Im gonna take that bet Spank if I can get in on it.

 

Not because I don't like Varsho or his glove and not because LGJ is a WAR machine in the past - but he is in his walk year and I expected his power to return in '23. Under rated bat to ball skills and his pitch selection has improved. His D sucks but think he is going to have his best offensive year by a lot. (I'll also be happy to be wrong and pay up if I lose)

 

Nah, not with you, friendo.

[gruber92]

Nah, not with you, friendo.

 

Coward

[Spanky99]

Coward

 

Cause I don't want to bet with a friend? f*** off, fool.

[Stottlemyres_Bloody_Chin]

Honestly Jonn, look at the same trolls, s*** happens man, but being absurd is just it.

 

 

Dude you're the biggest f***ing troll on here and it's not close.

 

You just get away with it for some reason.

 

How you weren't perma-banned years ago is a mystery.

[Stottlemyres_Bloody_Chin]

Varsho posted a 4.7 WAR last season. He's still only 26. You have to think he's capable of 4-5 WAR seasons with the Jays.

 

Defensive WAR is flawed. 4.7 WAR is a star player. Which Varsho is certainly not. Never has been, never will be.

 

You don't agree, that's fine, but I don't have to agree with your take on it either.

[Spanky99]

Dude you're the biggest f***ing troll on here and it's not close.

 

You just get away with it for some reason.

 

How you weren't perma-banned years ago is a mystery.

 

So no, bet... Gotcha!

[Stottlemyres_Bloody_Chin]

Wild isn't it Eat My Shatkins, a fool, encrypted? lmao

 

Jokers of this board humiliate themselves.

 

 

You humiliate yourself with your drunken ramblings on a daily basis.

 

Toe rag!

[Spanky99]

You humiliate yourself with your drunken ramblings on a daily basis.

 

Toe rag!

 

K........

 

[BigCecil]

Nah, not with you, friendo.

 

No worries. All good.

[jaysblue]

Defensive WAR is flawed. 4.7 WAR is a star player. Which Varsho is certainly not. Never has been, never will be.

 

You don't agree, that's fine, but I don't have to agree with your take on it either.

 

Yeah that's perfectly fine.

 

Right now Varsho isn't looking like a 4-5 WAR player agreed.

 

If he only ends up being a 2 WAR player, then this was an awful trade.

[spats]

LGJ with his 8th hr and a double and is now batting .321.More homers than Vladdy who I'm starting to think is one of the most overrated players in baseball.

[MikeM3]

Varsho's bat sucks. Everyone can see that now and before the trade. Terrible bat path, no EV.

 

His tools are speed and D but he's playing LF so..

[Laika]

The Varsho trade...

 

It's kind of like trading for a GG SS then playing them at second base.

 

A lack of developed talent + hyper-focusing on team needs = Atkins twisted himself into a pretzel.

[glory]

Yeah, if Varsho were playing CF, then his presence here would be more appreciated as his bat isn't great but doesn't need to be in CF. As a LF it seems a lot less ideal since it puts more pressure on his bat, and his defense (while still really good) is coming from a much less valuable defensive position. Feels like the Jays should have done an either/or with Varsho and KK. They ended up with both, and that's not the best fit together unless KK's bat right now is legit (it's not) or Varsho's bat takes a massive step forward (it might, but how much?).

[BigCecil]

Yeah, if Varsho were playing CF, then his presence here would be more appreciated as his bat isn't great but doesn't need to be in CF. As a LF it seems a lot less ideal since it puts more pressure on his bat, and his defense (while still really good) is coming from a much less valuable defensive position. Feels like the Jays should have done an either/or with Varsho and KK. They ended up with both, and that's not the best fit together unless KK's bat right now is legit (it's not) or Varsho's bat takes a massive step forward (it might, but how much?).

 

Im on a KK pink cloud right now but I dont expect this to continue whether he falls off by injury or just goes back down to earth closer to his career overall numbers. The pressure on Varsho offensively to produce is just going to build unless the big boys on the team really step up.

[Spanky99]

Rowdy Tellez has been really good so far man, thought he'd slow down by now.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/rowdy-tellez/15679/stats?position=1B

 

Imagine Rowdy pulling off a 2 win season with ROS projections.

[Stangstag]

Yeah, if Varsho were playing CF, then his presence here would be more appreciated as his bat isn't great but doesn't need to be in CF. As a LF it seems a lot less ideal since it puts more pressure on his bat, and his defense (while still really good) is coming from a much less valuable defensive position. Feels like the Jays should have done an either/or with Varsho and KK. They ended up with both, and that's not the best fit together unless KK's bat right now is legit (it's not) or Varsho's bat takes a massive step forward (it might, but how much?).

 

Realistically KK will walk this offseason and Varsho will be the everyday CF going forward. Also opens up a corner to sign a better bat, someone like Conforto/Pederson… maybe Teo??? Haha

[BigCecil]

LGJ with his 8th hr and a double and is now batting .321.More homers than Vladdy who I'm starting to think is one of the most overrated players in baseball.

 

It is what it is for LGJ. Some people dismissed him in the trade last year because the power was down (he had a hamate bone issue) and he is a 2 ish WAR player.

 

Then some dismiss this year because its a walk year, or LGJ we all know is streaky. But 8 dingers in less than 50 gms is 3 more than all of '22. That math ain't changing hot or cold.

 

People don't always put up better numbers in their walk year. Not automatic. Sometimes they suck - like Teo, for example, who so far this year in his walk year kind of sucks.

 

Its possible to be ok with the trade and also accept LGJ can be a pretty useful player who may have more upside on offense than we saw.

[Stangstag]

It is what it is for LGJ. Some people dismissed him in the trade last year because the power was down (he had a hamate bone issue) and he is a 2 ish WAR player.

 

Then some dismiss this year because its a walk year, or LGJ we all know is streaky. But 8 dingers in less than 50 gms is 3 more than all of '22. That math ain't changing hot or cold.

 

People don't always put up better numbers in their walk year. Not automatic. Sometimes they suck - like Teo, for example, who so far this year in his walk year kind of sucks.

 

Its possible to be ok with the trade and also accept LGJ can be a pretty useful player who may have more upside on offense than we saw.

 

It would be pretty funny if the FO turned around and signed one of Teo/Lourdes in the offseason after missing some of their offense in the lineup. They could be relatively cheap signings, similar to what Haniger got. Varsho is probably better suited to CF. The fit is there…

[Brownie19]

It is what it is for LGJ. Some people dismissed him in the trade last year because the power was down (he had a hamate bone issue) and he is a 2 ish WAR player.

 

Then some dismiss this year because its a walk year, or LGJ we all know is streaky. But 8 dingers in less than 50 gms is 3 more than all of '22. That math ain't changing hot or cold.

 

People don't always put up better numbers in their walk year. Not automatic. Sometimes they suck - like Teo, for example, who so far this year in his walk year kind of sucks.

 

Its possible to be ok with the trade and also accept LGJ can be a pretty useful player who may have more upside on offense than we saw.

 

I generally agree - except the bolded part. I mean we saw LGJ post wRC+'s of 125 and 137 for the Jays. The guy can hit. What we didn't see was him hit that way for a full 162 games. Will he do that this year? Time will tell. What he can't do is run or play defense, which he's also not doing in Arizona.

[Spanky99]

Realistically KK will walk this offseason and Varsho will be the everyday CF going forward. Also opens up a corner to sign a better bat, someone like Conforto/Pederson… maybe Teo??? Haha

 

I thought you didn't like Conforto...

[Stangstag]

I thought you didn't like Conforto...

 

When did I say that?? I was all for signing Conforto on a 1 yr deal this offseason. I 100% did not want Bellinger at that cost though

[Spanky99]

When did I say that?? I was all for signing Conforto on a 1 yr deal this offseason. I 100% did not want Bellinger at that cost though

 

I'm joking around, you said(paraphrasing) "things could be worse, we could've signed Conforto" in jest awhile back when he was scuffling out of the gate, hence the tongue in cheek.

[MikeM3]

Yeah, if Varsho were playing CF, then his presence here would be more appreciated as his bat isn't great but doesn't need to be in CF. As a LF it seems a lot less ideal since it puts more pressure on his bat, and his defense (while still really good) is coming from a much less valuable defensive position. Feels like the Jays should have done an either/or with Varsho and KK. They ended up with both, and that's not the best fit together unless KK's bat right now is legit (it's not) or Varsho's bat takes a massive step forward (it might, but how much?).

 

The problem is they don't want Springer to touch CF. So while signing KK was smart, his health is not bankable. So the appeal with Varsho was the ability to play CF. Of course, we don't have a CF anywhere in the organization (somehow) and these type of shortcomings enter our acquisition strategy.

[Orgfiller]

It's easy to see why the org valued Varsho. His defense is exceptional - DRS loves him, UZR loves him, OAA is coming back around after a weird blip to start the year (now at 86th percentile), and interestingly just about every metric (in a much smaller sample size) thinks he's arguably better in CF than on the corners. The power is there, he's in 85th percentile for max EV (literally his first hit of the season with the team) and just hit a 446 ft nuke yesterday. His issue isn't even swing decisions necessarily IMO, while he could stand to chase less, his K/BB is fine for someone with his power.

 

He's a smart baserunner despite not being a burner on the bases. Sure he's fast enough to beat out an infield hit more than most players, but he picks good times to steal and has good instincts on the bases for taking the extra base.

 

His issue is simply that he doesn't barrel the ball enough. Is this straight up a hit tool/lack of hand-eye coordination? Or is there something in his swing or approach that prevents him from routinely hitting the ball hard? You would certainly hope it's the latter and he works with the coaches on it so that he's able to utilize his power more in-game. You would think it's not purely a hit tool thing since he's not striking out at crazy rates, and guys like Teoscar Hernandez who make terrible swing decisions and whiff a lot still barrel the ball pretty frequently. Certainly can't compare him to a Bo Bichette who has a 70 hit tool and can barrel balls in any direction or fight off any pitch because he has innate hand eye coordination and bat speed to make up for poor swing decisions.

[glory]

The problem is they don't want Springer to touch CF. So while signing KK was smart, his health is not bankable. So the appeal with Varsho was the ability to play CF. Of course, we don't have a CF anywhere in the organization (somehow) and these type of shortcomings enter our acquisition strategy.

 

Varsho made more sense for the org to acquire given his years of control. The Jays have the very difficult task of trying to sustain contention with a s***** farm system and multiple holes needing to be filled as early as 2024 (3B, LF, 2B). A controlled CF was pretty much a necessity and I would imagine once Varsho is playing CF full time in 2024-26 that his value to the team will be more noticeable. Hopefully next season they resist the urge to bring KK back and get a LF who can hit.

 

This trade deadline I think we might see an AA-2015 level purge to the farm. They need more Varsho’s but are no where close to developing even one of them. Try to turn prospects into MLB players with multiple years of control, if possible.