Offense 2023: Better, same, or worse than 2022

[Brownie19]

Why is Espinal even being rostered.

 

2022 All-Star Santiago Espinal?

[Spanky99]

Offensively for sure, but he still holds great value because of his defensive abilities.

 

Yeah, for sure, I saw the other day that he's 2 feet faster per second or something since 2019, tells you how much his hip was affecting him.

[Brownie19]

Offensively for sure, but he still holds great value because of his defensive abilities.

 

There's a reason KK was available on a 1 year $9M deal. Unfortunately, there's little doubt in my mind you'll understand that better in the 2nd half of this season.

[Spanky99]

There's a reason KK was available on a 1 year $9M deal. Unfortunately, there's little doubt in my mind you'll understand that better in the 2nd half of this season.

 

I'd be happy as a pig in poo if he could pull off a '17 KK statline, imagine.

[jaysblue]

2023 is the deepest bench and bullpen this team has had in 20+ years.

 

2015 had a very strong bench:

 

Danny Valencia - 1.3 WAR

Ryan Goins - 1.3 WAR

Ben Revere - 0.7 WAR

Justin Smoak - 0.7 WAR

Chris Collabello - 1.4 WAR

 

Other guys included Carrera, Barney, Navarro, Pompey who were meh, but they weren't negative WAR players at least.

 

Other seasons had strong benches and BPs as well.

[jaysblue]

There's a reason KK was available on a 1 year $9M deal. Unfortunately, there's little doubt in my mind you'll understand that better in the 2nd half of this season.

 

Lol you're in a real pissy mood today.

 

Where did I say the Blue Jays should resign him at all costs? I said if the term and AAV are good, I wouldn't oppose bringing him back. His defensive value alone is an asset even if his bat is meh. I'll take 2.5-3 WAR from him any day.

[Brownie19]

Lol you're in a real pissy mood today.

 

Where did I say the Blue Jays should resign him at all costs? I said if the term and AAV are good, I wouldn't oppose bringing him back. His defensive value alone is an asset even if his bat is meh. I'll take 2.5-3 WAR from him any day.

 

What would that term and cost be? Seems doubtful he'd sign a 1-2 year extension and will be entering his age 34 season next year.

[Brownie19]

2015 had a very strong bench:

 

Danny Valencia - 1.3 WAR

Ryan Goins - 1.3 WAR

Ben Revere - 0.7 WAR

Justin Smoak - 0.7 WAR

Chris Collabello - 1.4 WAR

 

Other guys included Carrera, Barney, Navarro, Pompey who were meh, but they weren't negative WAR players at least.

 

Other seasons had strong benches and BPs as well.

 

Oh good point. AA deserved a lot of credit for providing Collabello with steriods that year and getting the only productive season of his career out of Goins (who was our starter - not a bench piece). He also traded Valencia mid season because he was a massive **** and Revere was the starting LFer after the trade.

[L54]

Lol you're in a real pissy mood today.

 

Where did I say the Blue Jays should resign him at all costs? I said if the term and AAV are good, I wouldn't oppose bringing him back. His defensive value alone is an asset even if his bat is meh. I'll take 2.5-3 WAR from him any day.

 

What’s the term and AAV that are good for you then ?

[Spanky99]

What’s the term and AAV that are good for you then ?

 

2 20???

 

 

Doubt he takes that, maybe 25 with his good fees about staying here.

[Stangstag]

Oh good point. AA deserved a lot of credit for providing Collabello with steriods that year and getting the only productive season of his career out of Goins (who was our starter - not a bench piece). He also traded Valencia mid season because he was a massive **** and Revere was the starting LFer after the trade.

 

Collabello was also the starting 1B by mid-season, to say he was a bench piece is disingenuous. Like saying Belt is a bench piece

[Stangstag]

Lol you're in a real pissy mood today.

 

Where did I say the Blue Jays should resign him at all costs? I said if the term and AAV are good, I wouldn't oppose bringing him back. His defensive value alone is an asset even if his bat is meh. I'll take 2.5-3 WAR from him any day.

 

I don’t believe KK will have another 2+ WAR season going forward. He’s an injury waiting to happen.

 

Take the homer goggles off dude

[Spanky99]

I don’t believe KK will have another 2+ WAR season going forward. He’s an injury waiting to happen.

 

Take the homer goggles off dude

 

If he stays healthy. easy. He's almost a 2 win player right now on June 14th.

[max silver]

I don’t believe KK will have another 2+ WAR season going forward. He’s an injury waiting to happen.

 

Take the homer goggles off dude

 

He's been remarkably healthy so far this season. It's possible the much maligned high performance department may actually be helping to keep him healthy and on the field with the load management scheme they've been employing. Kiermaier specifically mentioned needing to play smarter at times (less head first slides in particular) but given his high impact style of play I certainly wouldn't bet against an IL stint later this season.

[Stangstag]

If he stays healthy. easy. He's almost a 2 win player right now on June 14th.

 

Yeah because he’s hitting like a beast. You expect him to hit this well going forward?

[Terminator]

Yeah because he’s hitting like a beast. You expect him to hit this well going forward?

 

He doesn't have to hit like this. If he hits like this he's a 4 WAR player. If he's healthy he gets 2 WAR even if his bat sucks. And he doesn't even need to be THAT healthy. 120 games and he still gets 2 WAR even if he has a crummy offensive season.

 

Elite defensive players at premium positions have really high floors.

[Spanky99]

Yeah because he’s hitting like a beast. You expect him to hit this well going forward?

 

Are you drunk?

[wamco]

So negative! Even accusing another poster of having a drinking problem. You know that’s not allowed!

 

It’s a nice day outside. I suggest you ask one of your staff to take you for a walk. Stop and smell the roses! Take some really big sniffs!!

[jaysblue]

Collabello was also the starting 1B by mid-season, to say he was a bench piece is disingenuous. Like saying Belt is a bench piece

 

He was used in a platoon with Smoak at the beginning and then started playing more because of his bat. A lot of bench/platoon pieces do end up playing afterwards or starting if someone sucks or gets injured. That's a testament to building strong depth to begin with you buffoon.

[jaysblue]

I don’t believe KK will have another 2+ WAR season going forward. He’s an injury waiting to happen.

 

Take the homer goggles off dude

 

Haha you don't have any faith in the Jays new high performance department that everyone raves about? Geez you're so negative!

 

You're such a buffoon if you think KK can never have another 2 WAR season moving forward. A lot of his value is tied to his defense. Any offense is a plus. Even last season only playing 63 games he posted a 1.1 WAR. In 2021, despite a .259/.328/.388 slashline and 390 PA in 122 games, he posted a 2.5 WAR.

 

Smarten up dude!

[jaysblue]

Oh good point. AA deserved a lot of credit for providing Collabello with steriods that year and getting the only productive season of his career out of Goins (who was our starter - not a bench piece). He also traded Valencia mid season because he was a massive **** and Revere was the starting LFer after the trade.

 

Can't even have a discussion or argue with you because you're such an obnoxious person.

[Spanky99]

Haha you don't have any faith in the Jays new high performance department that everyone raves about? Geez you're so negative!

 

You're such a buffoon if you think KK can never have another 2 WAR season moving forward. A lot of his value is tied to his defense. Any offense is a plus. Even last season only playing 63 games he posted a 1.1 WAR. In 2021, despite a .259/.328/.388 slashline and 390 PA in 122 games, he posted a 2.5 WAR.

 

Smarten up dude!

 

Yeah, that post is silly, imo. Hence my joke, about being lit.

[jaysblue]

What’s the term and AAV that are good for you then ?

 

LMAO, how much do you think he's going to demand?

 

2/$20M or 2/$25M is pretty fair for a outfielder who's floor is around 2 WAR and could play excellent defense in CF.

[Spanky99]

Can't even have a discussion or argue with you because you're such an obnoxious person.

 

He's not wrong Sil? That's all true, bench was decent though. Good team.

 

On paper this season our bench and pen looked solid.

[jaysblue]

Yeah, that post is silly, imo. Hence my joke, about being lit.

 

Haha.

 

At least you're rational Jay. Geez I suggest resigning KK if the term and AAV are reasonable and I'm getting attacked with pitch forks from my two favourite posters! And I thought they were huge homers!

[Spanky99]

Haha.

 

At least you're rational Jay. Geez I suggest resigning KK if the term and AAV are reasonable and I'm getting attacked with pitch forks from my two favourite posters! And I thought they were huge homers!

 

L54 just asked about term? I think it'd be around that number, 2, 20-25M.

[jaysblue]

He's not wrong Sil? That's all true, bench was decent though. Good team.

 

On paper this season our bench and pen looked solid.

 

Yeah Revere was a starter here, shouldn't have included him.

 

It was a decent bench and a lot of guys like Collabello and Goins worked their way into the starting lineup after because Collabello was hitting well and Goins because of the Devon Travis injury.

 

On paper this season, I thought the bench looked solid as well but geez some these guys turned into pumpkins.

[jaysblue]

L54 just asked about term? I think it'd be around that number, 2, 20-25M.

 

Yeah I think that's fair for both sides. Unless another team offers him more money and years, though doubt it.

[Stangstag]

L54 just asked about term? I think it'd be around that number, 2, 20-25M.

 

I think that would be a terrible contract, full stop. I think we’ll have a better idea if what KK might be worth by the end of the season. Plus we want to maximize Varsho’s value as a CF right??

 

Idk to me it makes more sense to go after a bigger bat for one of the corners. Could make a shrewd 1 yr signing or get a guy on a relatively cheap 3-4 year deal

[Spanky99]

I think that would be a terrible contract, full stop. I think we’ll have a better idea if what KK might be worth by the end of the season. Plus we want to maximize Varsho’s value as a CF right??

 

Idk to me it makes more sense to go after a bigger bat for one of the corners. Could make a shrewd 1 yr signing or get a guy on a relatively cheap 3-4 year deal

 

That's a hypothetical post, I'm not saying do it, lots can change from now to the end of the season. You're undervaluing Kiermaier, he's as as fast as his prime years, and as good defensively as well. Nobody good or young enough to sign on a 3-4 year deal.