General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[Terminator]

I'd be all over Gallo as well.

 

At his worst he's a 4th OF who can handle CF and 1st. Decent baserunner too. And he provides home runs which is what we need. At his best he's an All-Star.

[Frenchsoup]

Just a lot of whiffs but there's no denying the power.

[Terminator]

3B options suck. I'd be down for a trade but the options are ass there too. I'm sure there are some players out there who could be moved that I'm not aware of though it's hard to tell who would be a fit if you just peruse Roster Resource.

 

I think we could just go with internal options and try and address it at the trade-deadline if we still need to.

[Terminator]

DH could be filled internally as well.

 

Steamer loves Horwitz. Jansen/Kirk combo could get some time there as well.

 

Also not ideal.

[Frenchsoup]

I like Kluber, Junis has a filthy slider and can be a number 5 think. Ryu I want back if possible. Alex Wood can give u 120 good innings. And I would absolutely take a flier on Bauer. He's done his time and Loves baseball....interesting guy.

[Terminator]

A guy who has been mentioned on other sites is Isaiah Kinder Falafel. I actually think he's a decent player to have on your team but I don't think we need him at all.

 

Too much overlap between him and Espinal and Espinal is already under contract for cheap.

[glory]

With the Padres looking to shed payroll, and Machado/Bogaerts/Cronenworth being untradeable, I wonder what it would cost to get Kim. Plus defender at 2B/SS/3B and better than league average hitter the past two seasons. Impending FA. They need pitching, which the Jays don't have much of in terms of expendable ones, so not sure it's the best fit.

 

I'm going to revise my off season wishlist to Garver (DH), Teoscar (LF), Kim (3B/trade), Taylor (4th OF). Adds much needed power, maintains infield defense, and adds a capable 4th OF who can maintain OF defense in the later innings.

[Marew]

Did we get bellinger? Since the dodgers stole ohtani I don’t care what we have to pay, if we get bellinger and he puts up a better season than ohtani next year any price is worth it.

[Spanky99]

Tyler Freeman from Cle, yay or nay?

[Frenchsoup]

We should look at this guy Connor Capel from the Las Vegas A's. Lots of control and a nice complete package. Reminds me a bit of Kole Calhoun.

[Terminator]

With the Padres looking to shed payroll, and Machado/Bogaerts/Cronenworth being untradeable, I wonder what it would cost to get Kim. Plus defender at 2B/SS/3B and better than league average hitter the past two seasons. Impending FA. They need pitching, which the Jays don't have much of in terms of expendable ones, so not sure it's the best fit.

 

Yeah they are kind of hard to envision trades with. Kim would be an obvious trade target but he also makes only 8 million so they aren't shedding that much salary and he also helps them compete this year, which they are also trying to do.

 

Maybe some sort of Manoah and Horwitz for Kim deal would work? MLB Trade Values like it. Manoah slots in to the rotation and Horwitz plays 1B with Cronenworth sliding over to 2B. You hate giving up that much control for just one year of Kim but Kim is really good and maybe he'd be open to an extension.

[Frenchsoup]

A guy who has been mentioned on other sites is Isaiah Kinder Falafel. I actually think he's a decent player to have on your team but I don't think we need him at all.

 

Too much overlap between him and Espinal and Espinal is already under contract for cheap.

 

Ikf is a sick ball player man, ur missing out on some fun.

[Terminator]

Tyler Freeman from Cle, yay or nay?

 

 

He'd be better than our current 3B options. Bit of a slap hitter though.

[jaysblue]

Which bat would you get to platoon with Gallo?

[Terminator]

You could do some sort of big blockbuster with the Padres where we get Tatis, Bogaerts and Cronenworth and trade them Bo, Manoah and a handful of other MLB ready pieces. Pearson, Horwitz, Espinal, etc.

[Frenchsoup]

Tyler Freeman from Cle, yay or nay?

 

I would say Yay, I like Rocchio at SS for them as well. Maybe like Bichette Manoah Pearson Orelvis Martinez Tidemann Barria and a couple more specs for Bieber Rocchio and Freeman.

[Frenchsoup]

I want to keep Horowitz if I can.

[Terminator]

What about Manoah for Jared Triolo from the Pirates? Triolo is a big time slap hitter but he's elite defensively and has a good eye.

 

We could probably tweak it some where we throw in a crap reliever and they toss us Connor Joe or something.

[Jimcanuck]

You could do some sort of big blockbuster with the Padres where we get Tatis, Bogaerts and Cronenworth and trade them Bo, Manoah and a handful of other MLB ready pieces. Pearson, Horwitz, Espinal, etc.

 

Machado, Kim, and Merrill + cash for Bo and Manoah

[Terminator]

Machado, Kim, and Merrill for Bo and Manoah

 

Of all their contracts Machado might scare me the most.

[Jimcanuck]

Of all their contracts Machado might scare me the most.

 

Not me. He had an injury in 2023 and got BABIP'ed .268

 

Machado would be my pick to age like a Big Papi or Boomstick

[Terminator]

Not me. He had an injury in 2023 and got BABIP'ed .268

 

Machado would be my pick to age like a Big Papi or Boomstick

 

I hear ya but it's not the performance that worries me it's the injuries. Coming off a major elbow injury and he's got 10 more years on that contract at 32 mil a year.

 

Tatis is younger and Bogaerts has a lower AAV (26 mil).

[Spanky99]

What about Manoah for Jared Triolo from the Pirates? Triolo is a big time slap hitter but he's elite defensively and has a good eye.

 

We could probably tweak it some where we throw in a crap reliever and they toss us Connor Joe or something.

 

Haha... I was thinking of him when I posted, Freeman.

[Terminator]

Haha... I was thinking of him when I posted, Freeman.

 

I think either of them would be good. Freeman has a better bat, Triolo a better glove. I kind of like the idea of adding Triolo.

 

One of the few guys in the game that would actually be an upgrade over Chapman at the position? And we might be able to squeeze more out of the bat than the sorry ass Pirates could.

[Frenchsoup]

Triolo's glove is that good?

[Krylian]

They won't do what it takes to close, except for when they have:

 

2020: Hyun-Jin Ryu (7th highest total contract in free agent class @ $80 mill)

2021: George Springer (1st highest total contract in free agent class @ $150 mill)

2022: Kevin Gausman (9th highest total contract in free agent class @ $110 mill)

 

I mean, I guess it depends on what your baseline expectation is here. Are they supposed to hand out the highest contract every single year for you to be satisfied? Are the mighty Blue Jays the only MLB team in the league vying for free agents?

 

Toronto sports fans are insufferable. When this regime was brought in, the immediate fan conspiracy theory was that Rogers was bringing in penny-pinchers from the Indians so that they could go cheap and squeeze the payroll. When that turned out to be false (#9 total team payroll in the league last season, which has been increasing every single year over the past ~3 seasons), the barometer has now shifted to the "problem" being that they're now going for too many free agents, but they aren't signing them all! A nice shift from: "oh no we're going to be the Oakland A's" to "I can't believe we let the lowly Dodgers outbid us for Ohtani".

 

In reality, you just described 97% of the teams in the league: "they're in on everyone, up to a point". Another term for that would be: being smart. The counter example is what, the New York Mets lol? Are we back to concluding that free agency spending sprees are the correct way to build a winner or something? I guess I missed that study.

 

The Jays big adds all tend to be on the wrong side of 30. They don't lock up the A+ elite guys in their 20s. Jays are way more risk averse than the Dodgers, Yankees, Rangers, Phillies, Mets, Padres.

 

No one said they need to hand out the biggest contact every year... But if this is a big market, then once in a while you need to play in the big boy sandbox and scoop up a superstar in his prime and lock him up for 10 years.

 

I've always been a believer in draft and develop.... Then augment whatever holes you have with trades and FAs. They've had a few building blocks, but I'm really not impressed with the state of the Jays farm system. Bottom half of the league in terms of ranking does not exude confidence. Their building blocks are getting closer to FA status... If they're going for it then they have no choice but to add significant talent quickly. Either by signing FAs, or trading from their already weak farm system.

[Spanky99]

Triolo's scouting report per BA...

 

BA Grade/Risk: 45/High

 

Track Record: Triolo performed well over three seasons at Houston, including a pair of summers on the Cape, and the Pirates signed him to a $868,200 bonus after drafting him No. 72 overall in 2019. His debut was nondescript and he lost all of 2020 due to the pandemic. He returned a far more consistent hitter. Triolo hit .282 with nine homers at Double-A Altoona in 2022, and managers voted him the best defensive third baseman in the Eastern League. He missed the final month of the season with a knee injury, but the Pirates added him to their 40-man roster in November.

 

Scouting Report: While Triolo's defensive chops are well-known, his improvement in several offensive categories helped elevate his profile. Triolo has premier barrel skills despite an unorthodox swing and stance. His bat path works well, though, and he makes excellent swing decisions, leading to an 80% contact rate and a 14% swing-and-miss rate in the zone that are among the better marks in Pittsburgh's system. His average power plays best to right-center field but he worked on pulling the ball more in 2022. Triolo has won the Pirates' minor league defender of the year award two years in a row. He plays a premium third base, showing a desirable combination of arm strength, accuracy and agility. Triolo is athletic enough to handle shortstop as well, and appeared in center field for the first time as a professional while with Altoona.

 

The Future: Triolo's contact ability and defensive versatility provide a ceiling as a super utility option in the big leagues.

 

Scouting Grades: Hit: 55. Power: 50. Speed: 50. Fielding: 60. Arm: 55.

 

 

Tyler Freeman's...

 

BA Grade/Risk: 45/Medium

 

Track Record: Freeman opened the 2022 season in Akron and played his way to the big leagues, debuting in August. He had a slow start in Cleveland, however, and did not make the playoff roster. Still, it was a solid year, as Freeman came back from a shoulder injury that cost him the second half of 2021.

 

Scouting Report: Freeman stands out most for his hittability and excellent feel for the barrel. He has a very aggressive approach at the plate and rarely walks as a result, but when he swings, he makes contact. While his pure hit tool is excellent, how much impact he'll provide offensively remains a question. His six home runs at Triple-A Columbus were a career high in just 72 games, but he otherwise struggled to produce power against upper-level pitchers. A return to his pre-surgery 2021 form when a third of his hits went for extra bases would be a big boost. Freeman was drafted as a shortstop and has primarily played there as a professional, but his average speed and arm strength limit his range and many evaluators question whether he's a long-term fit at the position. He played shortstop, second and third base in the big leagues and he could still settle at any of the three positions. A move off shortstop, however, would put more pressure on his bat and, especially, his power.

 

The Future: Freeman will be 23 on Opening Day and will go to spring training competing for a spot on the roster. The Guardians have a very crowded middle infield, however, especially following strong 2022 seasons from Amed Rosario and Andres Gimenez. Freeman has perhaps the best offensive potential of the group, but his defense is not as advanced and in breaking the logjam, Cleveland will have to decide what it values more. His versatility could help him carve out a role in Cleveland in the immediate future, while in the long run it will be up to his bat to earn him a full-time role.

 

Scouting Grades: Hit: 55. Power: 20. Speed: 50. Fielding: 45. Arm: 50.

[Spanky99]

Toronto could just roll with Barger/Biggio and Schneider as a Utility infield/OF options as well.

 

Barger's write up...

 

BA Grade/Risk:50/High.

 

Track Record: Drafted in 2018, Barger spent most of 2019 on the restricted list before emerging with added power from the 2020 pandemic shutdown. He had a strong season in 2021 with Low-A Dunedin before breaking out in 2022 by hitting .308/.378/.555 across three levels and reaching Triple-A. Barger returned to Buffalo in 2023 and struggled initially before an April 28 trip to the injured list with elbow pain. After an examination found no structural damage, Barger returned to Buffalo on June 21 and hit .254/.358/.424 over the final 68 games. He showed improved plate discipline upon his return via rates of 19% strikeouts and nearly 14% walks.

 

Scouting Report: After showing a more aggressive approach and more in-game power in 2021 and 2022, Barger showed more patience in 2023 and a toned-down launch angle. This in turn produced a more consistent bat path, and he showed improvements in contact, in-zone contact and swing decisions. Barger traded some fly balls for line drives and ground balls, but he closed some of the holes in his swing. While he hit for less power in 2023, his underlying exit velocity data improved across the board, with his average exit velocity jumping more than 3 mph and his 90th percentile EV increasing by 2 mph to 106 mph. Barger is a fringe-average runner and not a threat to steal bases. In the field, he is unlikely to stick at shortstop full time, and he saw time in right field and at third base and second base in 2023. He has a plus arm that could work at a variety of positions, but it’s a matter of cleaning up some of his actions and footwork.

 

The Future: Barger is a versatile lefthanded hitter who has improved his hit tool while learning to play right field. He is a super-utility type with above-average hitting ability.

 

Scouting Grades: Hit: 50 | Power: 55 | Run: 45 | Fielding: 45 | Arm: 60.

[Frenchsoup]

Jared Triolo looks really good.

[Frenchsoup]

Do we want to put Giancarlo in LF?