General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[DigitalRock]

LOL someone who challenges the front office is a moron. My bad, I will accept everything the front office does as great lol.

 

That is not why people think you are an idiot, come on your posts are trash

[burlingtonbandit]

I don't think anyone is hating on him, I'm hating on posters saying stupid things like he absolutely tore it up in the playoffs, when he didn't or when Varsho is, basically, Kevin Pillar.

 

Varsho and Moreno have a lot of similarities, good to great defence, and limited on certain parts of their offense. Varsho is a high power low average guy while Moreno is a low power, higher average guy.

 

Varsho does strike out a lot and Moreno has trouble framing.

 

There's a lot to like about both guys, IMO

 

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

 

Yeah I think the hope would be that "framing" is a more teachable aspect and it would be easier to improve there as we have seen with catchers in the past. Varsho actually has a ton of potential with the bat given his plus bat speed. I think that is why he's really frustrating for fans to watch as he has all the tools to be an incredible player, but then you watch the games and he's whiffing on fastballs at his eyes.

 

I'm not a scout by any means but it looks like he could improve a lot with a mechanical change to his swing.

[max silver]

This hits the nail on the head. You have some guys proclaiming this was the worst trade in the history of trades, and will continue to bitch about it until the day they die. Both have performed equal last year, and both are projected for equal next year. It made total sense on our end. We moved one of our surplus catchers for a top tier CF with control.

 

Surely you must realize that the only season of Varsho's career that counts when determining his relative value is the single season he played as a Blue Jay. Despite the down season at the plate he produced roughly similar value to Moreno. At the same time we are to ignore the fact that Gurriel had the worst offensive season on his career since his rookie season and that Moreno had a worse season than Jansen and remarkably similar season to Kirk in terms of overall value to his team.

[jaysthebest]

If Ohtani comes to the Jays, I would forgive the FO, but otherwise, the Jays would have to restart with the same roster again next season assuming they will get better.

[Eat My Shatkins]

If Ohtani comes to the Jays, I would forgive the FO, but otherwise, the Jays would have to restart with the same roster again next season assuming they will get better.

 

It's still a pretty good roster. Top 5 pitching staff (on paper) is a great place to start.

 

The holes at 3B and LF are amplified though without Ohtani's bat at DH

[Jays24]

That is not why people think you are an idiot, come on your posts are trash

 

It's exactly why people go at me and some others on here. You question Shatkins and you're absolutely a moron.

 

It's OK though, until they actually do something meaningful ON THE FIELD where most people care, there will be critics.

[The Cats Ass]

It's exactly why people go at me and some others on here. You question Shatkins and you're absolutely a moron.

 

It's OK though, until they actually do something meaningful ON THE FIELD where most people care, there will be critics.

 

You're not a moron because you question Shatkins. You're a moron because you think Varsho is trash and Moreno is a god when both performed the same last year, and are projected to be the same next year.

[jaysthebest]

It's still a pretty good roster. Top 5 pitching staff (on paper) is a great place to start.

 

The holes at 3B and LF are amplified though without Ohtani's bat at DH

 

I think we need some changes in our roster as we have had 0 wins in the wildcard series since 2020.

[burlingtonbandit]

That's tied for 6th with 4 other players. Including Kirk. They have Moreno getting the most games out of all of them, so it's more like 9th for him. Did you happen to check out where Varsho landed for CFers while on there?

 

He was tied for 6th as well. Although Moreno would be the more valuable asset being younger with 2 extra years of control but it is what it is..

 

So far the Dbacks have gotten the better side of the trade, is it the end of the world? No.. Lots of time left and even then its just one trade, not like NBA where it can make or break a franchise.

[Jays24]

You're not a moron because you question Shatkins. You're a moron because you think Varsho is trash and Moreno is a god when both performed the same last year, and are projected to be the same next year.

 

I don't know how many times I have to say the same thing but people are choosing only to take that away from what I'm saying.

 

For the 10th time, I would have and still preferred having a guy like KK in CF while using Moreno for a more impactful talent. You should only be trading elite prospects for the Soto's of the world, not a guy who can be replaced by KK, Grisham, etc.

 

Please tell me how hard has that been to understand? Yet people are going to nitpick a Pillar joke because they cant attack the original point lol.

[max silver]

I don't know how many times I have to say the same thing but people are choosing only to take that away from what I'm saying.

 

For the 10th time, I would have and still preferred having a guy like KK I'm CF while using Moreno for a more impactful talent. You should only be trading elite prospects for the Soto's of the world, not a guy who can be replaced by KK, Grisham, etc.

 

Please tell me how hard has that been to understand? Yet people are going to nitpick a Pillar joke because they cant attack the original point lol.

 

It appears as though Moreno was only viewed as an elite prospect by the internet prospect evaluators, and not valued this way by actual baseball front offices.

 

I really don't know why you keep coming back to Soto, if Moreno was a cream of the crop elite prospect why would you want the organization to trade him for rental player? This would be shooting themselves in the foot for a short term fix.

[Jays24]

It appears as though Moreno was only viewed as an elite prospect by the internet prospect evaluators, and not valued this way by actual baseball front offices.

 

I really don't know why you keep coming back to Soto, if Moreno was a cream of the crop elite prospect why would you want the organization to trade him for rental player? This would be shooting themselves in the foot for a short term fix.

 

Soto was just an example. This could be applied to Berrios who was a stud when he traded for him (still think he's a stud). I'm just speaking of talent at that level.

 

Now you could be right where other teams didn't value him as much but he was still ranked as one of the best prospects in baseball. The trade had more to do with Shatkins being desperate for a left handed defensive OFer than it did with Moreno's true value.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[The Cats Ass]

I don't know how many times I have to say the same thing but people are choosing only to take that away from what I'm saying.

 

For the 10th time, I would have and still preferred having a guy like KK in CF while using Moreno for a more impactful talent. You should only be trading elite prospects for the Soto's of the world, not a guy who can be replaced by KK, Grisham, etc.

 

Please tell me how hard has that been to understand? Yet people are going to nitpick a Pillar joke because they cant attack the original point lol.

 

The hitter with the 28th highest WAR isn't impactful?

[max silver]

The hitter with the 28th highest WAR isn't impactful?

 

He didn't hit for a high enough batting average.

[Eat My Shatkins]

I wonder if the Jays could get guys like Rosario or Anderson to come to TO and play 3B on a 1 year deal to try and rebuild value?

 

Just point at Semien and say "worked for Marcus"

 

Although he played 2B for us, but still.

[Laika]

I wonder if the Jays could get guys like Rosario or Anderson to come to TO and play 3B on a 1 year deal to try and rebuild value?

 

Just point at Semien and say "worked for Marcus"

 

Although he played 2B for us, but still.

 

absolutely they COULD

 

offer those guys a starting job, anywhere on the diamond, and they will sign in a minute.

 

the question is whether or not Toronto SHOULD because they might suck

 

I have both of them in the Plan Q, end of the offseason bucket

[DonJays]

I wonder if the Jays could get guys like Rosario or Anderson to come to TO and play 3B on a 1 year deal to try and rebuild value?

 

Just point at Semien and say "worked for Marcus"

 

Although he played 2B for us, but still.

 

I doubt they would even consider Anderson

[max silver]

I doubt they would even consider Anderson

 

There have just been too many instances of on and off the field episodes that suggest the guy is basket case.

[G-Snarls]

You're not a moron because you question Shatkins. You're a moron because you think Varsho is trash and Moreno is a god when both performed the same last year, and are projected to be the same next year.

 

Truth!

 

2023 fWar:

 

Varsho 2.1

Moreno 1.7

 

2024 fWAR projection:

 

Varsho 3.0

Moreno 3.2

 

2023 bWAR:

 

Varsho 3.9

Moreno 4.3

[Eat My Shatkins]

absolutely they COULD

 

offer those guys a starting job, anywhere on the diamond, and they will sign in a minute.

 

the question is whether or not Toronto SHOULD because they might suck

 

I have both of them in the Plan Q, end of the offseason bucket

 

 

 

Fair.

 

Especially with Anderson.

 

Rosario doesn't project too much lower than Chapman though but for a lot less money and term

[Laika]

Fair.

 

Especially with Anderson.

 

Rosario doesn't project too much lower than Chapman though but for a lot less money and term

 

Yeah I think some s***** team will just give Amed Rosario a starting SS role

[connorp]

I think we need some changes in our roster as we have had 0 wins in the wildcard series since 2020.

 

Don’t want to say that here. It’s all just bad luck. Nothing else

[Eat My Shatkins]

Don’t want to say that here. It’s all just bad luck. Nothing else

 

Again, no one here is arguing that it's ALL bad luck.

 

Atkins whiners just keep building strawmen though.

[Jays24]

Don’t want to say that here. It’s all just bad luck. Nothing else

 

Shhh... Atkins has been great and deserves a raise. Give one to Schneider too for pulling Berrios. What a genius that decision was lol.

[Jays24]

Again, no one here is arguing that it's ALL bad luck.

 

Atkins whiners just keep building strawmen though.

 

And yet your main argument on why we've won 0 playoff games during the Shatkins era is luck. The homerism syndrome runs deep on this board lol.

[Frenchsoup]

Jay's are in on Jung Hoo Lee, go get this superstar...

[jaysblue]

I wonder if the Jays could get guys like Rosario or Anderson to come to TO and play 3B on a 1 year deal to try and rebuild value?

 

Just point at Semien and say "worked for Marcus"

 

Although he played 2B for us, but still.

 

Eddie Rosario?

[jaysblue]

And yet your main argument on why we've won 0 playoff games during the Shatkins era is luck. The homerism syndrome runs deep on this board lol.

 

There is luck involved in a short 3 game series, but the Jays regardless played poorly in both WC matchups and their struggles from the 162 game season carried into both of their series.

 

2021: didn't even make the Postseason which is a shame. Really would have loved to see what that lineup and pitching at the time could have done in the Postseason. Not addressing the Bullpen early on in the season was the issue.

 

2022: no excuses to blow that lead with Gausman on the mound. Series could have been tied 1-1 and who knows what happens in Game 3. If they lost a close Game 3, then sure luck played a role. The bullpen, defense and over management played more of a role in that series with the Mariners than luck.

 

2023: offensive struggles all year carried over into the Wildcard matchup. If the Jays bats all of a sudden woke up, that would be getting lucky. Otherwise, this team had offensive issues all year long and it carried over into their series with the Twins. The FO failed to upgrade the lineup at the deadline when it was well known it was a huge issue.

[Jays24]

There is luck involved in a short 3 game series, but the Jays regardless played poorly in both WC matchups and their struggles from the 162 game season carried into both of their series.

 

2021: didn't even make the Postseason which is a shame. Really would have loved to see what that lineup and pitching at the time could have done in the Postseason. Not addressing the Bullpen early on in the season was the issue.

 

2022: no excuses to blow that lead with Gausman on the mound. Series could have been tied 1-1 and who knows what happens in Game 3. If they lost a close Game 3, then sure luck played a role. The bullpen, defense and over management played more of a role in that series with the Mariners than luck.

 

2023: offensive struggles all year carried over into the Wildcard matchup. If the Jays bats all of a sudden woke up, that would be getting lucky. Otherwise, this team had offensive issues all year long and it carried over into their series with the Twins. The FO failed to upgrade the lineup at the deadline when it was well known it was a huge issue.

 

Oh I agree if we were only talking about 1 year but I already said my comments were from their entire body of work, which you just broke down nicely. Their glaring issues each of those years ended up being the main reason why they lost in the playoffs too.

 

And don't work about 2020 where they also got swept due to overmanaging and poor defense from Bo at SS. Same issues from the year got magnified in the playoffs... what a shocker lol.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Jay's are in on Jung Hoo Lee, go get this superstar...

 

Is this legit?

What kind of contract is he looking at getting?

What's the precedent for KBO stars coming to MLB and having success?

Is this guy the answer to the Jays hole in LF?