General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[bones10]

Win tomorrow and move onto the actual easy part of the schedule. Lol.

[jaysthebest]

We are not gonna make the playoffs. Just blow it up and give Barger, Horwitz and Orelvis a chance to experience the big league.

[Terminator]

Is it time to stick a fork in 'em? Looking like it.

[jaysblue]

Seems like only a month or two ago the board was “we are on a X win pace” and “it’s early” and “we are coming into a softer schedule” dominated the board after pissing away yet another winnable game. Been a tough year. Ain’t over yet but it’s getting tougher with every L. Shame if we waste such a solid pitching season.

 

The number of excuses that the homer brigade could use are dwindling. No more excuses such as "it's early" or "it's been a tough schedule." Hope we don't hear "Bo injury" excuses as a reason why this team fell short. If you criticized this team back in May/June for losing a winnable game, you were tarred and feathered. If you criticized the front office, same thing. If you said the softer part of the schedule won't be easy, you were laughed at.

 

If this team fails to make the Postseason, it's a wasted opportunity especially with the solid starting pitching this year. It's not over yet, but this team needs to go on a run and soon!

[Spanky99]

Some team is going to pick up Espinal on the cheap and get solid value out of him for a couple of years.

 

Why would they pick him up?

[Spanky99]

Seems like only a month or two ago the board was “we are on a X win pace” and “it’s early” and “we are coming into a softer schedule” dominated the board after pissing away yet another winnable game. Been a tough year. Ain’t over yet but it’s getting tougher with every L. Shame if we waste such a solid pitching season.

 

lol...

[Spanky99]

He would still retain his rookie eligibility. Corbin Carroll was a September call up last year

 

That's not how it works in regards to a rookie, no? I mean for the pick.

[Spanky99]

The number of excuses that the homer brigade could use are dwindling. No more excuses such as "it's early" or "it's been a tough schedule." Hope we don't hear "Bo injury" excuses as a reason why this team fell short. If you criticized this team back in May/June for losing a winnable game, you were tarred and feathered. If you criticized the front office, same thing. If you said the softer part of the schedule won't be easy, you were laughed at.

 

If this team fails to make the Postseason, it's a wasted opportunity especially with the solid starting pitching this year. It's not over yet, but this team needs to go on a run and soon!

 

lmao...

[L54]

That's not how it works in regards to a rookie, no? I mean for the pick.

 

Is Carroll not going to get them a pick? I assumed he would

[Spanky99]

Is Carroll not going to get them a pick? I assumed he would

 

I'm not sure? It would make sense too.

[L54]

As long as they have 60 days or fewer of service time

[Terminator]

The number of excuses that the homer brigade could use are dwindling. No more excuses such as "it's early" or "it's been a tough schedule." Hope we don't hear "Bo injury" excuses as a reason why this team fell short. If you criticized this team back in May/June for losing a winnable game, you were tarred and feathered. If you criticized the front office, same thing. If you said the softer part of the schedule won't be easy, you were laughed at.

 

If this team fails to make the Postseason, it's a wasted opportunity especially with the solid starting pitching this year. It's not over yet, but this team needs to go on a run and soon!

 

Here we go folks, it's his moment in the sun! Let's all let him enjoy it.

 

If I may though, I would like to point out that your criticisms of the front office in May/June were almost entirely about how badly Atkins failed to build an elite bullpen lmao.

 

And no one said the soft schedule would be "easy" in the sense that it guaranteed a playoff berth (unless you are counting the playoffs will be easy to make memers), we just said it would be "easier" which surely EVERYONE could agree with. I mean my god, the Nats, Rockies and A's are easier to play than the AL East right? The team was in a Wild Card position and had played a hard schedule so they would surely find themselves in a decent spot when the schedule softened up right?

 

I mean the Mariners were a team out of contention and look what a soft schedule did for them. They even sold at the damn deadline lol.

[Spanky99]

For the M's sake they sold high on Sewald, that was savvy.

[deanmike]

Warm body, til the 1st... easy.

 

He'll be designated on the 1st.

 

Happy we had warm body McShit last night instead of another bat to throw at Gore like Lantigua or Orelvis?

[deanmike]

Defense...

 

Yeah his -1 fWAR in 2 weeks was so f***ing nice. I really noticed his defense while he was out there being the position player version of Brad Hand! Take Atkins' cock out of your mouth for once.

[Spanky99]

Happy we had warm body McShit last night instead of another bat to throw at Gore like Lantigua or Orelvis?

 

Both those cats get their s*** pushed in, smarten up

 

 

Yeah his -1 fWAR in 2 weeks was so f***ing nice. I really noticed his defense while he was out there being the position player version of Brad Hand! Take Atkins' cock out of your mouth for once.

 

As a defence first and run guy, sure. Your animosity sits well, fool.

[DigitalRock]

Blue Jays are batting .198 with the bases loaded in 2023; the lowest in a single season in franchise history . Random stat for the day

[deanmike]

Both those cats get their s*** pushed in, smarten up

 

You said the same s*** when the Jays kept delaying Schneider/Clement callups to keep zeros like Espigarbage on the roster.

[Brownie19]

The number of excuses that the homer brigade could use are dwindling. No more excuses such as "it's early" or "it's been a tough schedule." Hope we don't hear "Bo injury" excuses as a reason why this team fell short. If you criticized this team back in May/June for losing a winnable game, you were tarred and feathered. If you criticized the front office, same thing. If you said the softer part of the schedule won't be easy, you were laughed at.

 

If this team fails to make the Postseason, it's a wasted opportunity especially with the solid starting pitching this year. It's not over yet, but this team needs to go on a run and soon!

 

Man - you're still struggling to understand this concept eh? That's too bad. But it seems unlikely this team will make the playoffs unfortunately, so enjoy your time in the sun and take a lap or 2 to remind everyone how smart you are when you told people that losing games was bad. The team clearly should have hit the panic button in May and traded for more offense.

 

I mean one could suggest the Jays front office prediction models (along with all the other recognized public prediction models) were pure s*** and the team ought to have known that Vlad, Kirk, Springer, Varsho, Jansen, Chapman and Espi would all drastically underperform this year and they ought to have made moves earlier to add offense. I guess that's the angle you take on this one if you want to hate on the FO. Fire the nerds and their spreadsheets. I would render a guess that if you ran simulation models on how much this offense would produce - the actually results are in down in the 25th percentile. It really sucks, as this is a very good, deep team that simply couldn't score enough runs.

 

Take a slow victory lap man - you won. I can't wait to hear all the future warnings and predictions from you. You've earned my respect.

[jaysblue]

Here we go folks, it's his moment in the sun! Let's all let him enjoy it.

 

If I may though, I would like to point out that your criticisms of the front office in May/June were almost entirely about how badly Atkins failed to build an elite bullpen lmao.

 

And no one said the soft schedule would be "easy" in the sense that it guaranteed a playoff berth (unless you are counting the playoffs will be easy to make memers), we just said it would be "easier" which surely EVERYONE could agree with. I mean my god, the Nats, Rockies and A's are easier to play than the AL East right? The team was in a Wild Card position and had played a hard schedule so they would surely find themselves in a decent spot when the schedule softened up right?

 

I mean the Mariners were a team out of contention and look what a soft schedule did for them. They even sold at the damn deadline lol.

 

I wish I was wrong, but alright.

 

The bullpen wasn't looking that great in May as it is now. The Jays pen didn't have Hicks and Cabrera, Richards was still used more as a bulk reliever, Garcia had ERA's above 5 for both the month of April and May. Bass and Cimber were still be used in high leverage spots. The bullpen right now looks a lot better than it did in April/May.

 

I made criticisms of Atkins and this front office for not taking this team to the next level yet during their tenure. Which right now to this date holds true especially if they miss the Postseason. It seems like when I brought up the 2021 season, everyone wanted to forget that disappointment like it never happened. A lot of revisionism likes to go on around here.

 

You were one of the posters at the time who criticized me for saying that the easy part of the schedule wasn't going to be a walk through. You and others were using the schedule as an excuse. It's still early in this part of the light schedule so the Jays could go on a run let's hope! Though so far they haven't taken advantage of this softer part of the schedule. Something fundamentally is wrong with this team this season, as we all know they've been frustrating to watch.

 

Hopefully they could win the Nats series today and could go on a run against the A's, Royals and Rockies. It's not over just yet, but time is dwindling.

[jaysblue]

Man - you're still struggling to understand this concept eh? That's too bad. But it seems unlikely this team will make the playoffs unfortunately, so enjoy your time in the sun and take a lap or 2 to remind everyone how smart you are when you told people that losing games was bad. The team clearly should have hit the panic button in May and traded for more offense.

 

I mean one could suggest the Jays front office prediction models (along with all the other recognized public prediction models) were pure s*** and the team ought to have known that Vlad, Kirk, Springer, Varsho, Jansen, Chapman and Espi would all drastically underperform this year and they ought to have made moves earlier to add offense. I guess that's the angle you take on this one if you want to hate on the FO. Fire the nerds and their spreadsheets. I would render a guess that if you ran simulation models on how much this offense would produce - the actually results are in down in the 25th percentile. It really sucks, as this is a very good, deep team that simply couldn't score enough runs.

 

Take a slow victory lap man - you won. I can't wait to hear all the future warnings and predictions from you. You've earned my respect.

 

Stop getting all pissy because your homerism clouded your judgement about this team. You were on the Mike Wilner Kool aid all season.

 

I'm not taking a slow victory lap. I'm as frustrated as you are. I hope this team could go on a run and get back into it, which is still possible. Maybe next time you and some other posters shouldn't get all harsh and freak out when someone criticizes something about this team or front office.

[Nursehoneybadger]

I wish I was wrong, but alright.

 

The bullpen wasn't looking that great in May as it is now. The Jays pen didn't have Hicks and Cabrera, Richards was still used more as a bulk reliever, Garcia had ERA's above 5 for both the month of April and May. Bass and Cimber were still be used in high leverage spots. The bullpen right now looks a lot better than it did in April/May.

 

I made criticisms of Atkins and this front office for not taking this team to the next level yet during their tenure. Which right now to this date holds true especially if they miss the Postseason. It seems like when I brought up the 2021 season, everyone wanted to forget that disappointment like it never happened. A lot of revisionism likes to go on around here.

 

You were one of the posters at the time who criticized me for saying that the easy part of the schedule wasn't going to be a walk through. You and others were using the schedule as an excuse. It's still early in this part of the light schedule so the Jays could go on a run let's hope! Though so far they haven't taken advantage of this softer part of the schedule. Something fundamentally is wrong with this team this season, as we all know they've been frustrating to watch.

 

Hopefully they could win the Nats series today and could go on a run against the A's, Royals and Rockies. It's not over just yet, but time is dwindling.

 

 

Just looking at the rangers and Astros schedule there are lots of scenarios that get us back in a spot in the next couple weeks. But its gotten to the point where now just winning won't be enough, we need the rangers/mariners/astros to have some bad luck as they are pretty much in a 3 way tie with lots of games between each other still.

[BigCecil]

Morosi was musing on an Alonzo + for Vlad deal yesterday. The plus because of control. He is saying Pete is available. Assuming it’s possible(who knows) what’s thoughts?

[mphenhef]

Morosi was musing on an Alonzo + for Vlad deal yesterday. The plus because of control. He is saying Pete is available. Assuming it’s possible(who knows) what’s thoughts?

 

gross, I might start cheering for another team if Alonso was on the team.

[jaysblue]

Just looking at the rangers and Astros schedule there are lots of scenarios that get us back in a spot in the next couple weeks. But its gotten to the point where now just winning won't be enough, we need the rangers/mariners/astros to have some bad luck as they are pretty much in a 3 way tie with lots of games between each other still.

 

Yeah still some time. Jays could still win the series today against the Nats and all they need is to go on a run. It's not over yet by any means.

[Laika]

Morosi was musing on an Alonzo + for Vlad deal yesterday. The plus because of control. He is saying Pete is available. Assuming it’s possible(who knows) what’s thoughts?

 

That's tempting if the + is anything decent

 

Lose one year of player control and lose some upside in exchange for... a more reliable player? Sort of?

 

Like on paper it would be dumb but having watched Vlad his entire career ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Laika]

How could Ross Atkins have even defended against what has happened this year, lmao?

 

Does he need a crystal ball and a psychoanalyst to be able to tell him that Vlad is going to lay a 0 WAR egg and Kirk+Springer+Varsho+Manoah are going to underperform their projections and 2022 production by like 13 f***ing WAR combined?

 

Like what could he have possibly done better that isn't ******** hindsight dumbo speak?

 

The players are blowing it. Blame the players.

[jaysblue]

Morosi was musing on an Alonzo + for Vlad deal yesterday. The plus because of control. He is saying Pete is available. Assuming it’s possible(who knows) what’s thoughts?

 

Something you have to consider if you're the Jays to shake things up. Alonso is a sure bet to hit around 40 HR's.

 

The difference is in age and years of control. Alonso will be 29 next season, Vlad will be 25. One less year of control with Alonso than Vlad. Regardless if both have monster seasons, they both are going to require a big extensions, which I'm not even sure the Jays would be on board for.

 

Alonso looks like he's a sure bet to be a 3-4 WAR player, with the potential for a bit more. Should be good for .250/.340/.500 with around 40 HR's. Think of him as a 1B version of Troy Glaus. Vladdy on the other hand right now doesn't even look like a 1 WAR player, but if he returns to his 2022 form he should be good for 2-3 WAR. Vladdy at his best/peak though can be a .300/.400/.600 type of bat with 6-7 WAR like in 2021. Alonso will never be that kind of guy.

 

Higher floor/lower ceiling with Alonso because you know what you're going to get. Lower floor and higher ceiling with Vladdy.

[jaysblue]

How could Ross Atkins have even defended against what has happened this year, lmao?

 

Does he need a crystal ball and a psychoanalyst to be able to tell him that Vlad is going to lay a 0 WAR egg and Kirk+Springer+Varsho+Manoah are going to underperform their projections and 2022 production by like 13 f***ing WAR combined?

 

Like what could he have possibly done better that isn't ******** hindsight dumbo speak?

 

The players are blowing it. Blame the players.

 

I've said majority of the blame should be placed on the players. I think everyone agrees. Though Atkins and the FO will and should get some blame as well to an extent. They're the ones who put this roster together and are responsible for the farm system. You can't just give them a free pass especially if they miss the 2023 Postseason and based on the previous season results as well.

 

Like BigCecil said, maybe the FO realizes earlier this lineup needed a bit of a shakeup and instead is more proactive leading up to the trade deadline in targeting some bats. Could have made a difference maybe.

[Brownie19]

Stop getting all pissy because your homerism clouded your judgement about this team. You were on the Mike Wilner Kool aid all season.

 

I'm not taking a slow victory lap. I'm as frustrated as you are. I hope this team could go on a run and get back into it, which is still possible. Maybe next time you and some other posters shouldn't get all harsh and freak out when someone criticizes something about this team or front office.

 

I don't understand you. It seems you finally agree that this season isn't on Atkins, it's on the players. That was primarily my argument all season, during which you just kept calling me a homer (and now Mike Wilner?). You seemingly now agree with me, yet still want a pat on the back because you told us the "it's early" response was BS. You seem to be speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

 

If you agree that this season is on the players, than the "it's early" response always held true. Nobody wants to lose a lot early in the year, but all you can do is hope the key players start playing near their career norms and projections. That's all we could do and unfortunately, it looks like it wasn't meant to be and isn't going to happen. If you re-ran this season over 100 times, I doubt this offense would produce at or below what we saw this season more than 10-15 times. But that's baseball.