General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[max silver]

Checks MLB leaderboard... Jays 4th in fWAR, 5th in wRC+... ISO is down, but the pitching has been the problem. HR's for and against, it's that simple.

 

I think the offense has been just as much of an issue as the pitching. There have been a lot of potential wins that have not been seized because of the offense's inability to plate runners in scoring position. If the offense plates even a small portion of these potential runs when they are available there would be more wins in the bank at this point.

[Spanky99]

I think the offense has been just as much of an issue as the pitching. There have been a lot of potential wins that have not been seized because of the offense's inability to plate runners in scoring position. If the offense plates even a small portion of these potential runs when they are available there would be more wins in the bank at this point.

 

Yes, timely hits would've mattered no doubt, but that's variance and statistical noise, s*** luck basically.

[jaysblue]

Who claimed this pen as elite? lmao... you do this all the time and never answer, par for the course on your rubber fence. Just stop, dude.

 

Lmao you know who.

[Spanky99]

Lmao you know who.

 

No, I don't.

[Terminator]

I don't know either and if so, are they still claiming it's elite? There's a difference.

[Stangstag]

Manoah and sometimes Kikuchi. Gausman has had 3 implosions I think, otherwise he's been the best pitcher in baseball.

 

Bullpen despite the depth and despite how some on here praised it as an elite pen, isn't one still. Romano is rock solid, Swanson has done a formidable job, Pearson looks like he has found a new home down in the pen, Mayza has been great and Richards is having a terrific season. The rest have been extremely disappointing (Bass, Cimber, Garcia, Pop). They've been dumpster fires when they're supposed to be arms you could rely on in the 6th/7th inning's. Bass actually looked like he was starting to turn things around, but won't go there. Otherwise, if they were posting solid numbers, this pen would look completely different.

 

Offensively, it's not the main problem but still is an issue. This team has underachieved offensively power wise and are also inconsistent on a day-to-day basis. Like I said before, you might be only looking at one 30 HR bat in this lineup which is Bo, who typically shouldn't be your team HR leader.

 

Yeah idk who was claiming the pen is “elite” but it never was. Romano probably the only “elite” guy we have and even he is inconsistent.

 

Offense yeah I guess you could argue they should have more homeruns and its potentially costing them games since the numbers with RISP have been pretty bad. They need to improve numbers with RISP and with runners on 3rd with less than 2 outs.

[Spanky99]

I don't know either and if so, are they still claiming it's elite? There's a difference.

 

I found the '23 bullpen chat, and not one person claimed this, like not even close. I can't find anything else. jaysblue's talking out his butt, bro.

 

https://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/10810-Jays-2023-Pen-Good-or-Good-Enough?highlight=elite+bullpen

[Spanky99]

Damn, I just lost an elite BP arm for the context of league arms in LOD, that f***ing suxxxx... bummer. I was hoping I read the ticker wrong.

[Jimcanuck]

Damn, I just lost an elite BP arm for the context of league arms in LOD, that f***ing suxxxx... bummer. I was hoping I read the ticker wrong.

 

No one cares

[BTS]

Nobody claimed Zach Plesac

[Laika]

f***ing hilarious that the Guardians optioned Karinchak

[Terminator]

Nobody claimed Zach Plesac

 

He must really f***ing suck.

[RustyTrombone]

I think you could certainly make the argument that the bullpen has elite potential at the very least. 2nd best xFIP for all bullpens in the MLB. Just need to stop giving up so many homeruns like others have said. Very good top 5 of Romano, Swanson, Pearson, Mayza, Richards with the potential for Garcia to get back in that group. White sucks, Pop sucks (atleast up to this point), Cimber should have been DFAed after he got healthy, Bass is already gone, with Francis, Danner, Juenger, Jackson as depth options. Just need the HR/FB rate to normalize and this pen can be elite results wise and sabr wise.

[Carlos Danger]

No one cares

 

Come on Jimbo. You are one of the first guys to pimp your players specs in the General that you have in leauges;)

[Carlos Danger]

I think you could certainly make the argument that the bullpen has elite potential at the very least. 2nd best xFIP for all bullpens in the MLB. Just need to stop giving up so many homeruns like others have said. Very good top 5 of Romano, Swanson, Pearson, Mayza, Richards with the potential for Garcia to get back in that group. White sucks, Pop sucks (atleast up to this point), Cimber should have been DFAed after he got healthy, Bass is already gone, with Francis, Danner, Juenger, Jackson as depth options. Just need the HR/FB rate to normalize and this pen can be elite results wise and sabr wise.

 

To make it an elite pen, you would need more than one elite guy/s.. Who is that? Plural...

[max silver]

He must really f***ing suck.

 

I suspect he also has some character related issues as well given the various on the field and off the field incidents he's been involved in. He might just not be worth the potential headaches given how poorly he's pitched.

[Laika]

Zach Plesac is a bad seed

 

I heard that his church believes there are only two types of [breaking balls]

[max silver]

I think you could certainly make the argument that the bullpen has elite potential at the very least. 2nd best xFIP for all bullpens in the MLB. Just need to stop giving up so many homeruns like others have said. Very good top 5 of Romano, Swanson, Pearson, Mayza, Richards with the potential for Garcia to get back in that group. White sucks, Pop sucks (atleast up to this point), Cimber should have been DFAed after he got healthy, Bass is already gone, with Francis, Danner, Juenger, Jackson as depth options. Just need the HR/FB rate to normalize and this pen can be elite results wise and sabr wise.

 

If Green comes back fully healthy and effective this pen can become really good in a hurry. Add one more leverage arm before the trade deadline and it could be a dynamite pen. The lower end guys have really hurt the team so each quality addition also improves the pen through subtraction of the dudes who are terrible.

[RustyTrombone]

To make it an elite pen, you would need more than one elite guy/s.. Who is that? Plural...

 

Fair that the Jays might not have any true "Elite" (ie. top 5-10 relievers in baseball) relievers but there has to be something to the fact that they have 4 maybe even 5 guys who I would say are all very good pitchers.

[BTS]

I think you could certainly make the argument that the bullpen has elite potential at the very least. 2nd best xFIP for all bullpens in the MLB. Just need to stop giving up so many homeruns like others have said. Very good top 5 of Romano, Swanson, Pearson, Mayza, Richards with the potential for Garcia to get back in that group. White sucks, Pop sucks (atleast up to this point), Cimber should have been DFAed after he got healthy, Bass is already gone, with Francis, Danner, Juenger, Jackson as depth options. Just need the HR/FB rate to normalize and this pen can be elite results wise and sabr wise.

 

Basically every bullpen has elite potential. Cincinnati and Colorado are top-5 in bullpen fWAR this year. Seattle too, after trading Swanson and losing Munoz for most of the year. TB has the second-worst pen in the league. This s*** is impossible to predict.

[Spanky99]

f***ing hilarious that the Guardians optioned Karinchak

 

f***ing stupid.

[Spanky99]

Nobody claimed Zach Plesac

 

Sign him up, Birds. Did he accept assignment?

[RustyTrombone]

Basically every bullpen has elite potential. Cincinnati and Colorado are top-5 in bullpen fWAR this year. Seattle too, after trading Swanson and losing Munoz for most of the year. TB has the second-worst pen in the league. This s*** is impossible to predict.

 

Dont think I agree with that take. You cant tell me that some of these bullpens around the league with below average K rates can be elite. Its like the Jays pen last couple years, decent bullpen but couldnt miss enough bats to be great. This year we are K'ing enough guys and have enough swing and miss to be a elite bullpen.

[jaysblue]

Blue Jays need to trade for Ricardo Rincon!

[Dick_Pole]

Here's an idea. Treat your veteran and totally capable starting staff as the men who they are and not f***ing China dolls and have them go 7+ every night so you limit the exposure to the s***** pen. As far as I'm concerned, Bassitt, Gausman and even Berrios third/fourth time through the order is >>>>>>>>> shitbag first time through the order.

[Jonn]

Sign him up, Birds. Did he accept assignment?

 

He’s to white and straight. Diversity signings only going forward.

[Terminator]

Here's an idea. Treat your veteran and totally capable starting staff as the men who they are and not f***ing China dolls and have them go 7+ every night so you limit the exposure to the s***** pen. As far as I'm concerned, Bassitt, Gausman and even Berrios third/fourth time through the order is >>>>>>>>> shitbag first time through the order.

 

Well I don't completely agree but I do get the general senitment.

 

Those two games we lost to the Twins were great examples. Kikuchi looked fine but they took him out after 5 and we had to burn through a bunch of arms. Then the next day Francis was looking good but we took him out, and because we've been burnt through everyone the game before by taking Kooch out early, had to use Cimber.

 

If either we used Kikuchi for one more inning on Friday, or tried to get a couple more outs with Francis on Saturday, we might come ahead in at least one of those games.

[Spanky99]

Sign him up, Birds. Did he accept assignment?

 

He accepted assignment, doesn't sound like a guy that's trouble, why was that brought up?

 

https://www.cleveland.com/guardians/2023/06/guardians-pitcher-clears-waivers-accepts-outright-assignment-to-triple-a.html

[jaysblue]

Here's an idea. Treat your veteran and totally capable starting staff as the men who they are and not f***ing China dolls and have them go 7+ every night so you limit the exposure to the s***** pen. As far as I'm concerned, Bassitt, Gausman and even Berrios third/fourth time through the order is >>>>>>>>> shitbag first time through the order.

 

Yeah depends on the situation obviously, but having Gausman, Bassitt and Berrios work deeper into games isn't a bad thing if it means limiting the exposure to some bullpen arms. Guys like Garcia, Cimber, Bass weren't effective when used in the 6th/7th innings.

 

Swanson/Mayza can be relied on in the 7th/8th depending on matchups. I'd like to see Pearson being used more in high leverage spots but will take time to fully trust him. Romano is your guy in the 9th innings.

[Terminator]

He accepted assignment, doesn't sound like a guy that's trouble, why was that brought up?

 

https://www.cleveland.com/guardians/2023/06/guardians-pitcher-clears-waivers-accepts-outright-assignment-to-triple-a.html

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/guardians-p-zach-plesac-dumped-by-agents-after-yet-another-stupid-injury-203150604.html

 

He's kind of a dumbass. Not sure if it extends beyond the Covid stuff or punching the mound and hurting himself though.