General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[The Cats Ass]

Yeah not really sure why Manoah gets first start over Gausman… maybe they’re doing this for the fans? Perception across the fandom (and even MLB network guys) is that Manoah is our best starter.

 

Whatev, end of the day it doesn’t really matter. Maybe Gausman needs an extra day or two to deal with a nail issue or something.

 

Manoah did finish 3rd in Cy Young voting.

[John_Havok]

Some Hayden Yuenger write up form the Athletic - wont paste the whole thing to avoid paywall issues but just some high points;

 

Last name is pronounced Ying-er

 

After the Blue Jays drafted him in the sixth round in 2021, they challenged the right-hander with an aggressive assignment in High-A Vancouver. Working in one- and two-inning stints, he racked up 34 strikeouts in his first 20 innings.

 

The plan all along, however, had been to stretch out Juenger as a starter, as is often the case with the organization’s most promising arms. With Juenger, it was also an opportunity to build up his workload. After three years in college and pro ball, he’d only pitched a little under 110 innings.

 

.....

 

 

Over fourth months in New Hampshire, Juenger largely thrived in a role best described as a bulk pitcher, with his starts typically lasting three or four innings. Over his 20 appearances, he averaged 10.8 strikeouts per nine innings compared to 3.4 walks.

 

By the end of July, Juenger had earned a promotion to Triple-A Buffalo, where he shifted to the bullpen. Still largely working multiple innings, Juenger was now tasked with facing batters that, on average, were about four years his senior. What Blue Jays bullpen coach Jeff Ware recalled about Juenger was his maturity. "He’s confident and he has a plan and he knows how to put together that plan and implement it in a Triple-A environment.” said Ware

 

......

 

Still, Juenger was tested. He remembered one outing, about three weeks into his time in Buffalo when he entered a game in the fifth inning and basically everything that could go wrong did. The first two hitters he faced fell behind 0-2 but Juenger didn’t execute a put-away pitch and each wound up doubling. After issuing a walk, a ground ball snuck through a hole in the infield. Naturally, another double followed. All told he allowed four hits and four runs in a third of an inning.

 

The next day, veteran starter Casey Lawrence approached Juenger to ask him if he was OK. He reminded him that bad outings happen, but it’s how a pitcher responds that matters.

 

“Just having that conversation really put in perspective like, ‘OK, look this stuff’s going to happen, but it’s about how fast we can bounce back and not worry about it,” Juenger said.

 

Asked what prompted him to check in with Juenger, the 35-year-old Lawrence said he remembered how former Blue Jays pitchers like Jason Grilli and Mark Buehrle had done the same for him.

 

 

.....

 

 

Juenger’s approach is to attack the zone. He throws his 92-97 mph fastball up and pairs it with a plus-changeup and a slider — that plays more like a sweeper after a grip tweak in September — that, in Juenger’s words, “has come a long way.” All three pitches can miss bats, as evidenced by the 100 strikeouts in 88 2/3 innings. But mistakes also led to 18 home runs allowed.

 

 

...

 

Juenger will begin the season in Triple A and is again poised for a flexible role. Whether it involves one-inning or multi-inning appearances or even short starts, he’ll be ready for whatever is asked. As for what he can work on, Ware said it’s all about finding more consistency with his pitches.

 

“Just executing his slider more consistently — consistently have the same shape of a slider or a very similar slider from pitch to pitch, and just executing his fastball at the top of the zone even better,” Ware said. “We saw a lot of good things from him, he did these things a lot already last year. It’s just getting a little bit more consistent with it.”

 

Juenger isn’t worried about setting a timetable for reaching the majors this year, but it’s fair to say he’s a name to watch.

 

“I’d love to debut this year coming up,” Juenger said. “But at the same time, I still got to play, I still got to perform well and time’s got to be right, as well.”

[The Cats Ass]

Gausman okay with this? lol

 

Gausman didn't pitch opening day last year either.

[G-Snarls]

MLB The Show simulated the season as they do every year. Here's how it went.

 

Blue jays ended the season with 108 wins, best in baseball - lose to the Astros in the ALCS

Angels made the playoffs as a wildcard but lost in the ALDS

Freeman and Justin Turner won the batting titles

Trea Turner and Bubba Thompson led their respective leagues in stolen bases (though they didnt provide the #)

Cy Youngs were Musgrove and DeGrom, MVPs were Alonso and Yordan Alvarez.

Braves beat the Astros in the World Series.

 

We win 108 games but lose to the Astros and don't sniff rhe World Series???

 

Dammit!!!

 

It didn't actually really happen and I'm still mad. LOL.

[G-Snarls]

Fire Schneider now!

[John_Havok]

We win 108 games but lose to the Astros and don't sniff rhe World Series???

 

Dammit!!!

 

It didn't actually really happen and I'm still mad. LOL.

 

I'm trying to envision the hype on this board with the Jays entering September with already nearly 90 wins. I dont even think losing to the Astros in the ALCS is all that bad an outcome after the last 2 seasons, but it would sure suck ass in the moment.

[The Cats Ass]

If anything starting Gausman over Manoah would have been more of a question mark.

 

Years on the Jays: M=2 ; G=1

Cy Young finish: M=3rd (87 points) ; G=9th (1 Point)

FWAR: M=4.1 ; G=5.7

BWAR: M=5.9 ; G=3.0

 

Wins, ERA, Innings all things the majority of fans look at all favour Manoah.

 

Also helps form a bond with Manoah, might make him more likely to stay. If he sees himself as the #1 it might make it just slightly harder for him to leave. The Jays are grooming him.

[John_Havok]

If anything starting Gausman over Manoah would have been more of a question mark.

 

Years on the Jays: M=2 ; G=1

Cy Young finish: M=3rd (87 points) ; G=9th (1 Point)

FWAR: M=4.1 ; G=5.7

BWAR: M=5.9 ; G=3.0

 

Wins, ERA, Innings all things the majority of fans look at all favour Manoah.

 

Also helps form a bond with Manoah, might make him more likely to stay. If he sees himself as the #1 it might make it just slightly harder for him to leave. The Jays are grooming him.

 

He'll be matched against Miles Mikolas who just signed a 2 year 40 million dollar extension. Should be a good one!

[wilko]

He'll be matched against Miles Mikolas who just signed a 2 year 40 million dollar extension. Should be a good one!

 

Miles just signed a 2 year extension with the Cards 2/40 Million.

[John_Havok]

Miles just signed a 2 year extension with the Cards 2/40 Million.

 

You're kidding!

[Jonn]

Miles just signed a 2 year extension with the Cards 2/40 Million.

 

Mikolas is a bitch. That comment he made about Lars returning from the WBC confirmed it. Hope Lars f***s his wife.

[MON4NHLTOR4MLB]

I think there could have been more drama if they chose Gausman and Gausman is easier to make 2nd than Manoah. Plus, I’m sure Gaus doesn’t care all that much

[Stangstag]

If anything starting Gausman over Manoah would have been more of a question mark.

 

Years on the Jays: M=2 ; G=1

Cy Young finish: M=3rd (87 points) ; G=9th (1 Point)

FWAR: M=4.1 ; G=5.7

BWAR: M=5.9 ; G=3.0

 

Wins, ERA, Innings all things the majority of fans look at all favour Manoah.

 

Also helps form a bond with Manoah, might make him more likely to stay. If he sees himself as the #1 it might make it just slightly harder for him to leave. The Jays are grooming him.

 

Interesting that bWAR has Manoah so much higher.

 

I think the bolded point is interesting though, didn’t think about that one.

[John_Havok]

Interesting that bWAR has Manoah so much higher.

 

I think the bolded point is interesting though, didn’t think about that one.

 

Manoah's peripherals really don't scream "top of the rotation" guy. The kinds of numbers fwar looks at, he's about the same as Chris Bassitt. bWAR really only cares about what runs actually scored, not really how they did.

 

He's still newish enough though that he could have just had a wicked outlier season in his strand rate and HR per flyball rate. Or, he could be one of the FIP beaters of the world due to his knack (so far) for giving up soft contact. His whiff rate is average. He does have a really good extension though, so that could be a reason why his results are currently outperforming his "stuff".

 

That trend would have to continue another season or two though before I would be willing to draw that conclusion fully, though his debut season his contact #'s were also really good. So far he's been a beater for 300+ innings so his results are leaning squarely in the FIP beater direction.

Edited March 24, 2023 by John_Havok

[L54]

Manoah is the home grown “ace”

 

Gausman is the outsider who turned them down once

 

Easy to understand why they’d give him the opener

[John_Havok]

[Jays24]

Toronto Blue Jays (@bluejays) • Instagram reel

WWW.INSTAGRAM.COM

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68K likes, 558 comments - bluejays on March 24, 2023: "A moment you dream of ⚡️ Here’s Manager John Schneider telling Alek Manoah he’s our #OpeningDay starter!".

 

I knew Manoah was a big guy but he's absolutely massive in this video. It's the video of him finding out he's pitching opening day.

[Orgfiller]

Manoah's peripherals really don't scream "top of the rotation" guy. The kinds of numbers fwar looks at, he's about the same as Chris Bassitt. bWAR really only cares about what runs actually scored, not really how they did.

 

He's still newish enough though that he could have just had a wicked outlier season in his strand rate and HR per flyball rate. Or, he could be one of the FIP beaters of the world due to his knack (so far) for giving up soft contact. His whiff rate is average. He does have a really good extension though, so that could be a reason why his results are currently outperforming his "stuff".

 

That trend would have to continue another season or two though before I would be willing to draw that conclusion fully, though his debut season his contact #'s were also really good. So far he's been a beater for 300+ innings so his results are leaning squarely in the FIP beater direction.

 

I think some people are also under the potentially misguided impression that this is who Manoah is and there's no future room for growth. This is a guy who from the time he was drafted looked out of place in the minors and has found easy success his first one and a half seasons. Going into season 3 there's no reason to believe he could hit a next level in his K rate and limit free runners via HBP. He's only 25, and while comparing someone to future HOFs isn't the best idea, guys like Verlander and Scherzer both followed similar trajectories as dominant in the minors, good but not ace level early success, before reaching another level 3-4 years into their careers to become the dominant aces they would settle in as.

[Jonn]

Crazy that this time last year Berrios was the Opening Starter and this season he might open as the 5th lol

[Stangstag]

Toronto Blue Jays (@bluejays) • Instagram reel

WWW.INSTAGRAM.COM

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68K likes, 558 comments - bluejays on March 24, 2023: "A moment you dream of ⚡️ Here’s Manager John Schneider telling Alek Manoah he’s our #OpeningDay starter!".

 

I knew Manoah was a big guy but he's absolutely massive in this video. It's the video of him finding out he's pitching opening day.

 

Are you body-shaming our ace?

[John_Havok]

I think some people are also under the potentially misguided impression that this is who Manoah is and there's no future room for growth. This is a guy who from the time he was drafted looked out of place in the minors and has found easy success his first one and a half seasons. Going into season 3 there's no reason to believe he could hit a next level in his K rate and limit free runners via HBP. He's only 25, and while comparing someone to future HOFs isn't the best idea, guys like Verlander and Scherzer both followed similar trajectories as dominant in the minors, good but not ace level early success, before reaching another level 3-4 years into their careers to become the dominant aces they would settle in as.

 

Sure, there's definitely a chance he takes a step forward there. He could develop a new pitch to add just one more wrinkle into the minds of the hitters, refine the changeup and/or slider to be more swing and miss oriented, or all of the above. Either way, even if he remains as is, and does actually continue to beat FIP due to however he's doing it now, he's in a great place.

[Jays24]

Are you body-shaming our ace?

 

Not really. He's more jacked than he is a fatty. Now can be lose some body fat, sure but cant we all lol.

[wilko]

Not really. He's more jacked than he is a fatty. Now can be lose some body fat, sure but cant we all lol.

 

ArE yOu cAlLiNg Me FaT!?

[Spanky99]

Mikolas is a bitch. That comment he made about Lars returning from the WBC confirmed it. Hope Lars f***s his wife.

 

What did he say?

 

It's nothing, lol...

 

https://www.outkick.com/lars-nootbaar-japan-world-baseball-classic-instagram-follow-miles-mikolas-warning/

Edited March 25, 2023 by Spanky99

[The_DH]

probably a few roster moves within 24 hours.

[Jays24]

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/pat-tabler-blue-jays-new-gig

[G-Snarls]

Why the f*** can't you buy Moanah jerseys??!?

 

Wife wants to get me a new one and can't find one on blue Jays shop or Lids. You can still buy Halladay and (gag) Grichuk jerseys. But not Manoah??

[Jayzfan79]

Not sure if anyone posted this but MLB the Show 2023 has the new Rogers Centre wall and dimensions.....but....the backdrop is still the same pre-renovations.

[Stangstag]

Why the f*** can't you buy Moanah jerseys??!?

 

Wife wants to get me a new one and can't find one on blue Jays shop or Lids. You can still buy Halladay and (gag) Grichuk jerseys. But not Manoah??

 

Player jersey selections have always been s*** on the websites… gotta go to the Dome or Eaton Centre shop for a good selection.

[The Cats Ass]

Why the f*** can't you buy Moanah jerseys??!?

 

Wife wants to get me a new one and can't find one on blue Jays shop or Lids. You can still buy Halladay and (gag) Grichuk jerseys. But not Manoah??

 

Did she look after he was announced as opening day starter? My guess is they’re sold out at the moment. Look again in a couple days.

 

I don’t even see the custom option on the Jays site, must be over loaded with purchases at the moment. I see that option on the USA mlb site though.