Would you fire Atkins

[connorp]

I mean I don't think there is anything special about Ross Atikins.

If they have a limp dick finish again in 2023 then sure, let Ross amicably leave to pursue new opportunities and get a different kind of guy in that role. But leave most of the front office and staff in place.

 

Yeah I assume that’s what it is. You can’t punish the players, so first you fire the manager/coaches…next comes the GM. Sometimes same time if it’s dumpster fire but franchise operations seems sold enough where TNT isn’t required

[Captain_Obvious]

I mean I don't think there is anything special about Ross Atikins.

If they have a limp dick finish again in 2023 then sure, let Ross amicably leave to pursue new opportunities and get a different kind of guy in that role. But leave most of the front office and staff in place.

 

I don't think he has made a move that made me go "WTF?!?" and go into despair. Some moves such as the Berrios extension might not be looking great today, but at the time they looked reasonable.

[connorp]

I don't think he has made a move that made me go "WTF?!?" and go into despair. Some moves such as the Berrios extension might not be looking great today, but at the time they looked reasonable.

 

Not how it works dude. You don’t judge Vernon Wells’ and Chris Davis’ contracts by “they seemed fair at the time, can’t fault them”

[Stangstag]

Not how it works dude. You don’t judge Vernon Wells’ and Chris Davis’ contracts by “they seemed fair at the time, can’t fault them”

 

This is stupid. Both those contracts were bad the moments they were signed. I don’t think a single person thought the Berrios contract was bad at the time.

 

I guess Atkins is supposed to be a fortune teller or something according to you

[Terminator]

Does anyone have a link to Atkins' press conference today?

[RobinThicc]

He didnt say s*** per usual.

[wilko]

Does anyone have a link to Atkins' press conference today?

 

I'll sum it up: Team good. Losing bad. Schneider best option because I fired Charlie.

[connorp]

This is stupid. Both those contracts were bad the moments they were signed. I don’t think a single person thought the Berrios contract was bad at the time.

 

I guess Atkins is supposed to be a fortune teller or something according to you

 

Just an extreme example, just pointing out everything is judged in hindsight. In the reverse, same goes for signing a player to a long term deal and they blow up in a good way. They get the credit for that.

 

Was Wells’ deal considered awful at the time? I’m not sure. Looked like a breakout franchise player if I remember right

[Spanky99]

Does anyone have a link to Atkins' press conference today?

 

Not yet, but...

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/videos/

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/videos/mlb/video/blue-jays-springer-suffered-concussion-shoulder-sprain-wild-card-collision

[Terminator]

What were his comments about Ross Stripling? Some people on twitter are making it sound like we shouldn't expect him back.

[Jimcanuck]

What were his comments about Ross Stripling? Some people on twitter are making it sound like we shouldn't expect him back.

 

Your mistake is attaching credibility to stuff on twitter

[Captain_Obvious]

Just an extreme example, just pointing out everything is judged in hindsight. In the reverse, same goes for signing a player to a long term deal and they blow up in a good way. They get the credit for that.

 

Was Wells’ deal considered awful at the time? I’m not sure. Looked like a breakout franchise player if I remember right

 

Your extreme examples did not require a time-traveling machine. Plenty of readily available data indicated the contracts were awful. Wells was already regressing and everyone was up in arms because we tied so much money to the wrong player.

 

For Berrios, he had consistently performed as a borderline #1 starter for years. He was also young. Not a single person or system predicted Berrios will have the bad numbers he had in 2022.

[Terminator]

Your mistake is attaching credibility to stuff on twitter

 

Lol what?

[Laika]

Your extreme examples did not require a time-traveling machine. Plenty of readily available data indicated the contracts were awful. Wells was already regressing and everyone was up in arms because we tied so much money to the wrong player.

 

For Berrios, he had consistently performed as a borderline #1 starter for years. He was also young. Not a single person or system predicted Berrios will have the bad numbers he had in 2022.

 

Even for the majority of 2022 the data STILL had no idea why Berrios was bad.

 

I remember Eno Sarris for most of the year talking about how his stuff and location numbers looked mostly the same as all previous years.

 

One of the most bizarre seasons in recent Jays history. There is legitimately a chance he comes back in 2023 and is the old effective workhorse Berrios.

[MikeM3]

I think we're behind the times in terms of pitching strategy, development and acquisition and I'd fire him if there was a clearly better option available.

 

His major league transactions have been mostly good but I just f***ing hate the pitchers we come up with.

[connorp]

Even for the majority of 2022 the data STILL had no idea why Berrios was bad.

 

I remember Eno Sarris for most of the year talking about how his stuff and location numbers looked mostly the same as all previous years.

 

One of the most bizarre seasons in recent Jays history. There is legitimately a chance he comes back in 2023 and is the old effective workhorse Berrios.

 

Of course you can’t make any concrete judgements on the deal now but if it’s still really bad after next year, the only ones being like “it’s ok because it was fair at the time”, is you nerds.

 

That’ll be a big ding for him

[Laika]

Of course you can’t make any concrete judgements on the deal now but if it’s still really bad after next year, the only ones being like “it’s ok because it was fair at the time”, is you nerds.

 

That’ll be a big ding for him

 

It's not "okay". It sucks. It's a bad outcome.

 

A pattern of inexplicable bad outcomes = you are probably missing something. The fact that the WHY can't be easily seen does not mean it is not there.

 

One bad outcome = one bad outcome. It doesn't really mean anything. There is no "so what" to it, at all. It would be asinine to decrease your opinion of the GMs competency because of one inexplicable bad outcome. All GMs have the odd dogshit outcome. The Yankees traded for Joey Gallo and are holding Donaldson and Stanton and Chapman together with duct tape. The Dodgers trusted their due diligence and signed Trevor Bauer. Juan Soto and Josh Hader and Wil Myers and Eric Hosmer suck and every other SP the Padres acquire dies. Jesse Winker is useless and the Ms dealt a lot for him, and Robbie Ray also sucks and is way overpaid.

[Stangstag]

Even for the majority of 2022 the data STILL had no idea why Berrios was bad.

 

I remember Eno Sarris for most of the year talking about how his stuff and location numbers looked mostly the same as all previous years.

 

One of the most bizarre seasons in recent Jays history. There is legitimately a chance he comes back in 2023 and is the old effective workhorse Berrios.

 

Yeah I still think the contract turns out as a net positive, but year 1 was undeniably a disaster. Too bad we didn't just let him play out his last year of control, because we probably could have signed him to a huge discount contract this offseason.

[Spanky99]

...

 

TORONTO – Blue Jays GM Ross Atkins expressed confidence in the job John Schneider did this season and backed the interim manager’s decision-making in the team’s recent Game 2 loss to the Seattle Mariners, but said the organization needs more time to work through a final decision regarding its managerial opening.

 

“We’ve just started that process but I expect it to be difficult to do better than him,” Atkins said.

 

The Blue Jays went 46-28 under the 42-year-old Schneider, who took over as interim manager after Charlie Montoyo’s dismissal on July 13. However, that strong finish ended in disappointment following a 10-9 loss to Seattle in Toronto on Saturday.

 

“Obviously we’re not happy with the end result,” Atkins said. “I’m not unaware of how difficult that was for our fan base.”

 

Meanwhile, Atkins revealed Tuesday that George Springer sustained a concussion and a shoulder sprain in Saturday’s game. It’s possible Springer will also undergo an elbow procedure at some point this winter, though no final decision has been made. Either way, the Blue Jays expect Springer to be fully ready for spring training.

 

The centre fielder was carted off the field in the eighth inning of Game 2 of the wild-card series Saturday following a high-speed collision with Bo Bichette in shallow centre field. He waved to fans as he left the field and briefly addressed his teammates after the Game 2 loss, but no further details were immediately available.

 

As for the Blue Jays’ budget, the front office is in the beginning stages of working through their off-season budget proposal for ownership. Atkins said the team has had “nothing but support” from owners at Rogers Communications, Inc., which also owns Sportsnet.

[Captain_Obvious]

Of course you can’t make any concrete judgements on the deal now but if it’s still really bad after next year, the only ones being like “it’s ok because it was fair at the time”, is you nerds.

 

That’ll be a big ding for him

 

What a dumb argument.

 

Here are a couple of questions:

1- If Atkins manages to sign Judge to 5 year 100M contract in the off-season, would you consider this a good deal and that Atkins made a wise decision?

The answer is Yes.

 

2- If Judge proceeds to hit like Tapia right after signing that contract, does that mean Atkins is a moron and should be fired for signing Judge?

The answer is No. The decision Atkins made is still the right one based on the data available at the time he made it.

[Captain_Obvious]

I think we're behind the times in terms of pitching strategy, development and acquisition and I'd fire him if there was a clearly better option available.

 

His major league transactions have been mostly good but I just f***ing hate the pitchers we come up with.

 

Which pitchers do you hate?

[MikeM3]

Which pitchers do you hate?

 

Dudes who throw 93 mph with running fastballs. Which is basically every single pitcher ever to come through the Atkins development pipeline. Even Manoah. Good thing he hides it and tunnels.

[connorp]

What a dumb argument.

 

Here are a couple of questions:

1- If Atkins manages to sign Judge to 5 year 100M contract in the off-season, would you consider this a good deal and that Atkins made a wise decision?

The answer is Yes.

 

2- If Judge proceeds to hit like Tapia right after signing that contract, does that mean Atkins is a moron and should be fired for signing Judge?

The answer is No. The decision Atkins made is still the right one based on the data available at the time he made it.

 

Sorry this isn’t how pro sports works dude. We’ll just agree to disagree.

 

Even basically Laila is agreeing with me, he’s just saying you can’t judge things by one contract, which I agree with

[connorp]

Hence I said it was a “ding” not something that is be all, end all. Winning cures bad contracts, losing amplifies them

[connorp]

If the poll taker would’ve done a better job, it would be

 

1) Keep him

2) Yes keep him, but he’s on thin ice

3) Fire him

[Stangstag]

If the poll taker would’ve done a better job, it would be

 

1) Keep him

2) Yes keep him, but he’s on thin ice

3) Fire him

 

Would have to think everyone is at 2) or 3) right now

 

I vote 2)

Team is coming off 91 and 92 win seasons.

[connorp]

Would have to think everyone is at 2) or 3) right now

 

I vote 2)

Team is coming off 91 and 92 win seasons.

 

Yeah even though I’ve said what I said, I’d vote 2 as well. Fire the manager, which they did. Fire some coaches maybe this off-season.. whatever… but if the GM can’t make the moves where they’re at least competing for the division title and not getting swept in the first round again, they’d prob make a change

[Spanky99]

Yeah even though I’ve said what I said, I’d vote 2 as well. Fire the manager, which they did. Fire some coaches maybe this off-season.. whatever… but if the GM can’t make the moves where they’re at least competing for the division title and not getting swept in the first round again, they’d prob make a change

 

Tapia is AIDS on this team, to the moon Alice!

[Captain_Obvious]

Sorry this isn’t how pro sports works dude. We’ll just agree to disagree.

 

Even basically Laila is agreeing with me, he’s just saying you can’t judge things by one contract, which I agree with

 

This is exactly how pro sports work. You make the best decision given the data you have at the time. Are you not going to provide your answers to my two hypothetical questions?

[connorp]

This is exactly how pro sports work. You make the best decision given the data you have at the time. Are you not going to provide your answers to my two hypothetical questions?

 

You mean the two rhetorical questions that you went ahead and answered after you asked them? Lol.

 

You’re not keeping up with the whole process vs results thing. So yes, Im going to agree with you that you’re right about everything. And it’s always clear if a deal is warranted or not. So like, if Cavan Biggio was signed to a long term extension like many wanted, you would say “hey, based on his FG data, that was a good decision”.. so I’m going to assume we’ll use FG as the decider if a deal is warranted or not? I mean, most deals aren’t so clear on if it’s good or bad, there’s often differing opinions, so we’ll need some line on the sand. So we can use Fangraphs I guess? Or are you the decider on what’s good or bad when it happens? I’m confused on that part