Guillermo Martinez

[Mac Outlaw]

I've been watching Jays telecasts all of 2022. If I got to listen to much more of Pat Tabler, I swear I gotta get the shotgun out. But that's not why I'm here.

 

I'm here for Guillermo Martinez. Does this guy do anything as the batting coach? We got a good offense, you'd figure he'd get some credit. But Buck, Tabler, Shulman etc don't even mention him. Pete Walker is God's gift to pitching every freaking telecast and they talk about him all the time. But with Guillermo Martinez, it's crickets. Any reason for this?

[Spanky__99]

Penis rank?

[John_Havok]

Telecasts…what are you 90?

[Mac Outlaw]

Telecasts…what are you 90?

 

No but i might as well be.

 

so is there a better way to watch the game?

[John_Havok]

No but i might as well be.

 

so is there a better way to watch the game?

 

I much prefer listening to my transistor radio. Those talking pictures make no sense to me.

[Brownie19]

I think this man brings up a fair point. I didn't even know Guillermo Martinez was the hitting coach. This team has 7 players with a wRC+ > 120. That's insanely good. He deserves some recognition.

[Olerud363]

I think this man brings up a fair point. I didn't even know Guillermo Martinez was the hitting coach. This team has 7 players with a wRC+ > 120. That's insanely good. He deserves some recognition.

 

It's an insanely talented group though with several players not meeting expectations, it's also a frustrating team to watch sometimes, like yesterdays game.

 

Is there a single player exceeding expectations? Like if he made Ramial Tapia into a good hitter, then we'd be impressed.

 

Fair or not expectation of the hitting coach is that he solves the obvious problems we see as fans. However Vladimir Guerrero still is a ground ball machine, Tapia is not a ground ball machine but not really any more useful than when he was.

 

Bo Bichette still swings at everything, so hitting coach couldn't fix that... and from what Bo is saying his super hot streak is a result of him being even more aggressive then he was before... lol

 

What exactly has the hitting coach done to solve the problems of our time like Vlad's ground ball rate? Seems like a bunch of players with a 120 OPS floor hitting their floor.

 

Team should have been an 800+ run scored team, and it will end up at 750.

[John_Havok]

I think this man brings up a fair point. I didn't even know Guillermo Martinez was the hitting coach. This team has 7 players with a wRC+ > 120. That's insanely good. He deserves some recognition.

 

Other food for thought he has 7 hitters over 120 ... but only 2 over 130 and 0 over 140.

 

random picked year of 2015 Jays had 6 hitters over 120. Of those 6 only 1 was under 130, 1 was over 130, 2 were over 140 and 2 were over 150.

 

The hitters over 120 this year (2021 WRC+ is in brackets) are:

 

Kirk 138 (106)

Vlad 134 (160)

Springer 127 (140)

Teoscar 127 (132)

Bo 126 (122)

Jansen 125 (105)

Chapman 120 (102)

 

Hard to say exactly what is the driver behind the gains in some and backwards steps in others, but overall the teams WRC+ in 2021 was 112, in 2022 it's 116. Slightly better but not markedly so and probably within error bars. Both #'s are/were #2 in baseball.

[Spanky__99]

Other food for thought he has 7 hitters over 120 ... but only 2 over 130 and 0 over 140.

 

random picked year of 2015 Jays had 6 hitters over 120. Of those 6 only 1 was under 130, 1 was over 130, 2 were over 140 and 2 were over 150.

 

The hitters over 120 this year (2021 WRC+ is in brackets) are:

 

Kirk 138 (106)

Vlad 134 (160)

Springer 127 (140)

Teoscar 127 (132)

Bo 126 (122)

Jansen 125 (105)

Chapman 120 (102)

 

Hard to say exactly what is the driver behind the gains in some and backwards steps in others, but overall the teams WRC+ in 2021 was 112, in 2022 it's 116. Slightly better but not markedly so and probably within error bars. Both #'s are/were #2 in baseball.

 

So there lies our answer, he deserves accolades.

[Brownie19]

It's an insanely talented group though with several players not meeting expectations, it's also a frustrating team to watch sometimes, like yesterdays game.

 

Is there a single player exceeding expectations? Like if he made Ramial Tapia into a good hitter, then we'd be impressed.

 

Fair or not expectation of the hitting coach is that he solves the obvious problems we see as fans. However Vladimir Guerrero still is a ground ball machine, Tapia is not a ground ball machine but not really any more useful than when he was.

 

Bo Bichette still swings at everything, so hitting coach couldn't fix that... and from what Bo is saying his super hot streak is a result of him being even more aggressive then he was before... lol

 

What exactly has the hitting coach done to solve the problems of our time like Vlad's ground ball rate? Seems like a bunch of players with a 120 OPS floor hitting their floor.

 

Team should have been an 800+ run scored team, and it will end up at 750.

 

I don't think it's fair to just claim the team is full of great hitters so this guy deserves no credit. Or to take a SSS like yesterdays game and blame him for it. He was hired in 2018 and the teams wRC+ has gone from 21st in MLB in 2019 to 13th in 2020 to 2nd overall in 2021 and 2022.

 

I don't love cherry picking guys to make a point, but guys like Kirk, Jansen, Chapman and even Biggio are all exceeding expectations (offensively) in my mind this year while he's overseen the transformation of Teo from league average to a stud. I'm not willing to discredit him for what Vlad is today.

 

At very least, the broadcasters could mention his name a few more time.

[Laika]

silly to think too hard about the effect specific coaches are having

[wilko]

I was streaming the game on my palm pilot and noticed the dude forcing drinks on players. Props to the waterboy!

 

 

[John_Havok]

I don't think it's fair to just claim the team is full of great hitters so this guy deserves no credit. Or to take a SSS like yesterdays game and blame him for it. He was hired in 2018 and the teams wRC+ has gone from 21st in MLB in 2019 to 13th in 2020 to 2nd overall in 2021 and 2022.

 

I don't love cherry picking guys to make a point, but guys like Kirk, Jansen, Chapman and even Biggio are all exceeding expectations (offensively) in my mind this year while he's overseen the transformation of Teo from league average to a stud. I'm not willing to discredit him for what Vlad is today.

 

At very least, the broadcasters could mention his name a few more time.

 

My only counter to your post for converstaional purposes is... why were expectations low in your mind for those guys? The answer to that will tell you how much "credit" you should be giving Martinez.

 

Like, If you expectations for Chapman were low... if it was because of physical health concerns, and he hasnt really had any of those, it's not really a surprise to see him at 120 or higher since that's where's he's been career wise prior to the hip issues - which means Martinez probably has very little to do with that.

 

Biggio, also hitting right around his career #'s absent the injury issues from last season.

 

Kirk - hard to know exactly given his limited sample size history. I dont know if anyone really expected a near 140 wRC+ but he was always touted a bat first catcher who was gonna take a tonne of walks and make a lot of contact.

 

Jansen - who the hell knows, his career has been largely derailed by injuries prior to this year so projections and expectations were going to be low for sure. Im just glad he's finally healthy and putting it together.

[max silver]

My only counter to your post for converstaional purposes is... why were expectations low in your mind for those guys? The answer to that will tell you how much "credit" you should be giving Martinez.

 

Like, If you expectations for Chapman were low... if it was because of physical health concerns, and he hasnt really had any of those, it's not really a surprise to see him at 120 or higher since that's where's he's been career wise prior to the hip issues - which means Martinez probably has very little to do with that.

 

Biggio, also hitting right around his career #'s absent the injury issues from last season.

 

Kirk - hard to know exactly given his limited sample size history. I dont know if anyone really expected a near 140 wRC+ but he was always touted a bat first catcher who was gonna take a tonne of walks and make a lot of contact.

 

Jansen - who the hell knows, his career has been largely derailed by injuries prior to this year so projections and expectations were going to be low for sure. Im just glad he's finally healthy and putting it together.

 

Chapman was specifically mentioned during Jays broadcasts as having gone to the coaching staff for a little more assistance in getting him on track after the early struggles. Guillermo and the rest of the coaching staff can likely get at least a little credit in helping Chapman to turn his fortunes around at the plate, although he was still producing a lot of solid contact early on and simply not seeing the expected results.

[Olerud363]

silly to think too hard about the effect specific coaches are having

 

True enough but deserved or not hitting coach won't get credit with games like Sunday's and Today's happening regularly.

 

Paraphrasing Buck - "Jays and Rays hit completely differently. Rays are just professional hitters, and the Jays rely on the big homerun. If the big homerun doesn't come they are in trouble.'

 

Fans think the same way. Won't giving hitting coach credit until Jays can have professional at bats, slap some singles the other way and put up clutch runs against the Springs of the world.

 

Again not saying it is the hitting coach's fault, just saying fans and media won't be impressed with the hitting coach with these kind of games happening regularly.

[Brownie19]

True enough but deserved or not hitting coach won't get credit with games like Sunday's and Today's happening regularly.

 

Paraphrasing Buck - "Jays and Rays hit completely differently. Rays are just professional hitters, and the Jays rely on the big homerun. If the big homerun doesn't come they are in trouble.'

 

Fans think the same way. Won't giving hitting coach credit until Jays can have professional at bats, slap some singles the other way and put up clutch runs against the Springs of the world.

 

Again not saying it is the hitting coach's fault, just saying fans and media won't be impressed with the hitting coach with these kind of games happening regularly.

 

I think that's a fair point. Buck and Tabby are dinosaurs who believe baseball is best played with a f***ton of bunts, hit and runs and slap hits to the opposite field because in their mind - that's what baseball is all about. They struggle to adapt to new age baseball with pitchers all throwing 95+ to the point their only approach is to blame any weak offensive output on the hitters 'approach' because it doesn't mimic Tony Gwynn's. Accordingly, they don't like Guillermo Martinez and thus never mention him.

 

Oddly enough they seem to forget about the Cito Gaston era of 'pull da ball'.

[John_Havok]

True enough but deserved or not hitting coach won't get credit with games like Sunday's and Today's happening regularly.

 

Paraphrasing Buck - "Jays and Rays hit completely differently. Rays are just professional hitters, and the Jays rely on the big homerun. If the big homerun doesn't come they are in trouble.'

 

Fans think the same way. Won't giving hitting coach credit until Jays can have professional at bats, slap some singles the other way and put up clutch runs against the Springs of the world.

 

Again not saying it is the hitting coach's fault, just saying fans and media won't be impressed with the hitting coach with these kind of games happening regularly.

 

To paraphrase me.... "Most fans, including Buck and Pat, are dumn"

[Brownie19]

True enough but deserved or not hitting coach won't get credit with games like Sunday's and Today's happening regularly.

 

Paraphrasing Buck - "Jays and Rays hit completely differently. Rays are just professional hitters, and the Jays rely on the big homerun. If the big homerun doesn't come they are in trouble.'

 

Fans think the same way. Won't giving hitting coach credit until Jays can have professional at bats, slap some singles the other way and put up clutch runs against the Springs of the world.

 

Again not saying it is the hitting coach's fault, just saying fans and media won't be impressed with the hitting coach with these kind of games happening regularly.

 

The 'professional hitters' are 20th in baseball in runs scored. That's about all you need to know about Buck's ability to provide accurate insight on what he's watching.

[Olerud363]

The 'professional hitters' are 20th in baseball in runs scored. That's about all you need to know about Buck's ability to provide accurate insight on what he's watching.

 

Last night the Jays tied it with a professional at bat by professional hitter Alejandro Kirk. He didn't try to do too much, made contact, hit to the opposite field and drove in Guerrero with a opposite field fielders choice. It was something to see.

 

After that point the Jays seemed to get away from the professional approach. They took a couple of walks which arguably are proffesional, but maybe not, because professionals often swing at the first pitch according to Buck and Pat. Either way after that.

 

Whitt Merrifield - Pulled a hard grounder down the third baseline

George Springer - Pulled a fly ball to Left (not left center) for a homerun

Teoscar Hernandez - Pulled a hard line drive to left center (not left).

 

Was any of this professional? Arguably the 7th run may have been professional, I can't remember how Teoscar got sent to third, I do remember when he scored the Rays may have been unprofessional handling a pop fly to shallow center.

[Laika]

Last night the Jays tied it with a professional at bat by professional hitter Alejandro Kirk. He didn't try to do too much, made contact, hit to the opposite field and drove in Guerrero with a opposite field fielders choice. It was something to see.

 

After that point the Jays seemed to get away from the professional approach. They took a couple of walks which arguably are proffesional, but maybe not, because professionals often swing at the first pitch according to Buck and Pat. Either way after that.

 

Whitt Merrifield - Pulled a hard grounder down the third baseline

George Springer - Pulled a fly ball to Left (not left center) for a homerun

Teoscar Hernandez - Pulled a hard line drive to left center (not left).

 

Was any of this professional? Arguably the 7th run may have been professional, I can't remember how Teoscar got sent to third, I do remember when he scored the Rays may have been unprofessional handling a pop fly to shallow center.

 

Nothing Teoscar does is professional. Have you seen his facial hair?

[Olerud363]

Nothing Teoscar does is professional. Have you seen his facial hair?

 

Yeah. But he really pulled dat ball hard to left center. Merrifield down the line. And Springer pulled the ball to the left field bullpen for a 363 foot homerun. Good job Springer, he needs to pull that ball because he can't hit it more than 363 with only one good elbow.

 

I just glanced the the velo box score and looks like Teoscar got the farthest drive of the second game. 397 for an out. I guess he didn't pull the ball that time, serves him right.

 

Guillermo Martinez should get credit if he has the boys pulling ball at the right time. I bet before the 7th he delivered a critical piece of advice 'pull dat ball'. Hopefully he starts getting some credit.

[Laika]

people think baseball is a complicated sport but it's really simple

 

there are only two good ways to hit

 

pull homers or bunt grounders the opposite way

 

everything in between is noise. unprofessional noise.

[Omar]

Chapman was specifically mentioned during Jays broadcasts as having gone to the coaching staff for a little more assistance in getting him on track after the early struggles. Guillermo and the rest of the coaching staff can likely get at least a little credit in helping Chapman to turn his fortunes around at the plate, although he was still producing a lot of solid contact early on and simply not seeing the expected results.

 

The guy I always see Chapman conferring with is the Hitting Strategist, Dave Hudgens. I never Chapman talking to Martinez.

[wilko]

The guy I always see Chapman conferring with is the Hitting Strategist, Dave Hudgens. I never Chapman talking to Martinez.

 

Because he's racist.

[Omar]

Because he's racist.

 

Wait a second, maybe Martinez doesn't habla englas?

[max silver]

The guy I always see Chapman conferring with is the Hitting Strategist, Dave Hudgens. I never Chapman talking to Martinez.

 

That's exactly the guy you would expect to see a hitter talking with in the middle of a game, particularly if the opposition were to bring in a new pitcher.

[Omar]

That's exactly the guy you would expect to see a hitter talking with in the middle of a game, particularly if the opposition were to bring in a new pitcher.

 

It's more than that though, maybe Hudgens is more respected too?

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/video/chapman-credits-hitting-strategist-dave-hudgens-recent-success/

[max silver]

It's more than that though, maybe Hudgens is more respected too?

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/video/chapman-credits-hitting-strategist-dave-hudgens-recent-success/

 

Hudgens certainly has the track record of success given that he was hitting coach for a world series winning team. It's a little odd that Hudgens accepted what is likely a demotion from bench coach to hitting strategist, but has Martinez really done anything that would necessitate him being removed from the job so that Hudgens could take over? At any rate having multiple coaches available to work with players allows different players to mesh with different coaches, coaches can really collaborate, etc.

[Grant77]

Hudgens certainly has the track record of success given that he was hitting coach for a world series winning team. It's a little odd that Hudgens accepted what is likely a demotion from bench coach to hitting strategist, but has Martinez really done anything that would necessitate him being removed from the job so that Hudgens could take over? At any rate having multiple coaches available to work with players allows different players to mesh with different coaches, coaches can really collaborate, etc.

 

It would be pretty hard to justify firing the hitting coach of the league's best offense.