General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2022)

[Spanky99]

Where did I say the Blue Jays should trade Moreno and Tiedemann for BP arms?

 

I said the Blue Jays FO should have done a better job in the offseason addressing the bullpen and roster depth so they wouldn't have been in this position. It seems like they ignored both and instead focused on the starting 9 and rotation. It's easiest adding to the bullpen and roster depth during the offseason. Not sure why they couldn't add to those areas of the roster as well during the offseason.

 

Why you scared, bro?

[BlueJaysFever]

We must stop the Mountcastle

[Solaxys]

OVERREACTION & SSS ALERT

 

Yankees: Montas

18 ERA, 7.27 xFIP, -0.1 WAR

Jays: White

5.79 ERA, 4.81 xFIP, 0.1 WAR

Jays win

 

Yankees: Effross

9 ERA, 5.75 xFIP, -0.1 WAR

Jays: Bass

3.38 ERA, 3.66 xFIP, -0.1 WAR

Jays win

 

Yankees: Trivino

0 ERA, 4.00 xFIP, 0.1 WAR

Jays: Pop

0 ERA, 4.34 xFIP, 0.1 WAR

Tied

 

Yankees: Benintendi

.251 wOBA, 61 wRC+, .508 OPS, -0.1 WAR

Jays: Merrifield

.316 wOBA, 102 wRC+, .714 OPS, 0.1 WAR

Jays win

 

---

TL;DR Get f***ed Yankees.

[John Balkabella]

We must stop the Mountcastle

 

What is the over/under on the number of home runs Mountcastle hits this series?

 

I’d put it at two.

[Olerud363]

What is the over/under on the number of home runs Mountcastle hits this series?

 

IÂ’d put it at two.

 

Over/under on how many hard hit fly ball outs, that are homers in 29 other parks the jays hit? I say 2.

 

The park is bizarre now but good chance no right handed hitters on either team hit any homers this series. Left handed hitters yes, or righties if they ignore Cito and Laika and don't pull dat ball but try to pop it towards the warehouse.

 

How many 110 mph 19 degree line drives will Vlad hit that are caught at the 399 sign?

 

How many regular homers will Bo, Espinal, Chapman and all hit that are 385 foot routine catches?

 

Bo and Espinals weekend homers would have been routine fly outs at the new Camden. Not sure about the other homers in the series. I think Kirk's pulled homers will be routine fly outs there, Kirk's opposite field ones will still work.

 

Of course if Vlad or Teo hit's it 440 that will work still... but will be an interesting series.

[Krylian]

What is the over/under on the number of home runs Mountcastle hits this series?

 

I’d put it at two.

 

If you're doing over/under, your number should either be 1.5 or 2.5.

[Solaxys]

We are a 60 win team going against a 56 team... literally another Twins. For 15 games.

 

Jfc.

[Dagagad]

Hopefully the Jays bullpen issues are mostly behind them now. They have quite a few decent relievers now, and there are several supposedly decent ones climbing the ladder and getting close to their MLB debuts.

 

Romano

Garcia

Mayza

Bass

Cimber

Pop

Richards

White

Merryweather

Pearson

 

All signed for next season at least, and then they have Juenger, Hernandez, Eisert and Spraker at AAA.

Not to mention Tiedemann and Zulueta at AA and they might have to break into the league as relievers considering the Jays entire starting rotation is under contract next season too, at this point.

 

Isn’t it kind of weird to have an entire bullpen signed for multiple years?

 

Not good or bad, but weird.

 

I kind of don’t want that much control over relievers unless a ton of them have options. It could be way too tempting to not upgrade or experiment in the pen because it’s ‘already solved’.

[Jonn]

The Jays bullpen is much deeper for sure. But they still lack a true 8th and 9th inning guy. It’s mostly fine… Losing Mayza hurts though. No longer a decent left handed option. I view Romano more as a middle reliever. He just happens to be the one closing right now.

[jaysblue]

There is zero problem with position player depth. There has not been a problem with it at any point this year. And Tapia starting a bunch of games is not really a problem - all teams have players of that quality starting a big chunk of games at some point.

 

Pitching depth issues this year are a function of bad luck AND the system not producing fruit AND some unexpected underperformances (all the AAA SP depth being completely worthless) AND probably a tough offseason when it comes to attracting free agents because of border s***. I don't think it's fair to slam them.

 

I mean they addressed the bullpen at the 2021 deadline and brought in multiple controllable relievers. They did that again this deadline. In the last year they have acquired Yimi Garcia, David Phelps, Trevor Richards, Adam Cimber, Zach Pop, and Anthony Bass. Literally 6 out of the 8 RP right now are acquisitions over the last calendar year. Also the two rentals Hand (ugh) and Soria last deadline. Traded for Berrios. Signed Gausman. Signed Kikuchi (ugh). Traded for White. Traded for Strip as a forward looking move in 2020 to help for these years.

 

All they do is add, improve, in a more-often-than-not positive way. They are always deliberate and smartly adding pitching and other depth where needed.

 

I don't actually know what you complainers all want. It's like you think this is easy and there aren't 29 other teams, most of which are very competent, fighting them for every available asset.

 

Players like Trevor Richards would have projected very well in the offseason for the record. I mean even right now his xFIP is 3.98; he probably has better projections than most of the RP arms that were considered at the trade deadline. That he has LOOKED like a lost cause over a few dozen innings this year is more noise than signal and a good example of the randomness that can make fans think that teams were fatally flawed from the start when they really weren't.

 

Yes once fully healthy with Springer, they have positional depth with Merrifield, Biggio, Espinal (one of them starting at 2B), Tapia (-0.2 WAR), Collins, Zimmer (-0.3 WAR). Tapia and Zimmer have both been negative WAR players and playing them over a long period on a consistent basis hurts the team more than helps, though yes as much I would love an upgrade, you can live with them as a 4th or 5th outfielder when everyone is healthy. Zimmer actually posted a 1.4 WAR last season, so when utilized right he's valuable. The Merrifield trade definitely helped with roster depth since he can play CF when Springer is DHing or out of the lineup with Biggio/Espinal playing 2B, or Merrifield plays 2B on a more regular basis.

 

Back in May when the Jays were missing Lourdes and Teo, Jansen, Springer on and off as well, Biggio was in the minors still figuring stuff out, that is when you really saw the Blue Jays depth tested. Most posters on here were having panic attacks. Kind of funny how now most have forgot that now since the Jays lineup is pretty much at 100% (outside of Springer). Though I'm sure if the lineup suffers an injury or two where someone is out for two-three weeks, people will be crying and wishing the Jays had more roster depth.

 

Additionally, we've already seen the rotation losing Ryu and now Stripling, the rotation is quite thin if they lose another arm especially someone like Gausman or Manoah. If they lose one of their top arms for 3 or 4 starts or longer, that will be tough to overcome.

 

As for the bullpen, I applauded the Bass and Pop trade and said both arms are upgrades to the pen. All I was saying is that during the offseason it felt like the Blue Jays FO somewhat neglected the BP and roster depth and during the offseason that's when its best bringing those guys in whether on MLB deals, or even minor league deals. Whereas at the trade deadline, you're always paying a premium. The Jays don't have a strong bullpen like they did in 2015, so I'm a bit skeptical of this bullpen pitching 3 or 4 innings in a close game against a top team, especially on the road. Though regardless, it's still decent and Atkins made solid upgrades with Bass and Pop like I said.

 

The Blue Jays have probably their best core in place since the 1992/1993 World Series since most guys are still young, in their prime or just entering their prime and under club control still for the next couple of years. I don't think you or me or other posters want to see the Blue Jays miss the Postseason again this year by only one game. I definitely think this roster can succeed in the Postseason, though it's just a matter of getting there. If this club is healthy and there is no significant losses in the rotation or lineup, they should easily get there.

Edited August 8, 2022 by jaysblue

[jaysblue]

OVERREACTION & SSS ALERT

 

Yankees: Montas

18 ERA, 7.27 xFIP, -0.1 WAR

Jays: White

5.79 ERA, 4.81 xFIP, 0.1 WAR

Jays win

 

Yankees: Effross

9 ERA, 5.75 xFIP, -0.1 WAR

Jays: Bass

3.38 ERA, 3.66 xFIP, -0.1 WAR

Jays win

 

Yankees: Trivino

0 ERA, 4.00 xFIP, 0.1 WAR

Jays: Pop

0 ERA, 4.34 xFIP, 0.1 WAR

Tied

 

Yankees: Benintendi

.251 wOBA, 61 wRC+, .508 OPS, -0.1 WAR

Jays: Merrifield

.316 wOBA, 102 wRC+, .714 OPS, 0.1 WAR

Jays win

 

---

TL;DR Get f***ed Yankees.

 

It's only been a week so still way too early to declare winners though okay! Yankees look very vulnerable right now and don't think they are locks for the World Series as they looked a month ago. Definitely have a lot of issues. I like the Blue Jays roster when healthy better in a short series than the Yankees.

[John Balkabella]

If you're doing over/under, your number should either be 1.5 or 2.5.

 

I know that.

 

It could be 2.1 actually.

 

I just think he’s going to hit two, cuz he’s so good against the Jays.

[Brownie19]

The Jays bullpen is much deeper for sure. But they still lack a true 8th and 9th inning guy. It’s mostly fine… Losing Mayza hurts though. No longer a decent left handed option. I view Romano more as a middle reliever. He just happens to be the one closing right now.

 

C'mon man.

[jaysblue]

C'mon man.

 

In terms of WAR, there are 45 other relievers who have a higher WAR than Romano. He's been a solid closer and has done a decent job in the role thus far, though what other options did the Blue Jays really have?

 

Roberto Osuna > Jordan Romano.

[Dagagad]

He’s not a middle reliever but he def doesn’t have reliable closer stuff.

[Jimcanuck]

In terms of WAR, there are 45 other relievers who have a higher WAR than Romano. He's been a solid closer and has done a decent job in the role thus far, though what other options did the Blue Jays really have?

 

Roberto Osuna > Jordan Romano.

 

WAR is a flawed measure for relievers, especially closers. Romano is tied with Iglesias and ahead of Hader, among other elite relievers, in terms of WAR.

[Dagagad]

WAR is a flawed measure for relievers, especially closers. Romano is tied with Iglesias and ahead of Hader, among other elite relievers, in terms of WAR.

 

I don’t care about WAR. He gets hit too hard too much. It’s not closer stuff.

[jaysblue]

WAR is a flawed measure for relievers, especially closers. Romano is tied with Iglesias and ahead of Hader, among other elite relievers, in terms of WAR.

 

Roberto Osuna > Jordan Romano.

[Dagagad]

Roberto Osuna > Jordan Romano.

 

There isn’t going to be a real closer on this team unless he comes through our own system. That’s just the way it is. The front office has made it extremely clear over multiple deadlines and free agency that they aren’t willing to part with high value assets for relievers in money or prospects.

 

I don’t know if a agree with it (I’d be willing to spend money and just fill the gap) but it’s also not obviously dumb either. It’s probably right long term.

 

However, that also doesn’t mean that we have to pretend that Romano is the type of best leverage reliever that most contenders would be happy with.

 

One thing i do find weird is that romano is given so many save opps. He is going to hit a big arb number at some point that he isn’t worth.

[Terminator]

[Terminator]

One thing i do find weird is that romano is given so many save opps. He is going to hit a big arb number at some point that he isn’t worth.

 

He's 25/29 for saves on the year. Who would you make the Closer instead?

[Dagagad]

He's 25/29 for saves on the year. Who would you make the Closer instead?

 

I’m not saying he isn’t the best option. I’m saying a lot of teams would split the saves to save money in arbitration.

 

Other teams do that and those are also the types of teams who aren’t interested in paying much for relievers.

 

I find the middle ground we’ve chosen to be an odd choice. Like are we really going to be happy with Romano’s arb 2 number. Probably not. But we also don’t seem to be the type of team that would do a hader like trade.

[Terminator]

I’m not saying he isn’t the best option. I’m saying a lot of teams would split the saves to save money in arbitration.

 

Other teams do that and those are also the types of teams who aren’t interested in paying much for relievers.

 

I find the middle ground we’ve chosen to be an odd choice. Like are we really going to be happy with Romano’s arb 2 number. Probably not. But we also don’t seem to be the type of team that would do a hader like trade.

 

I don't think it's that odd for a contending team to use their best option for CL as their closer. You're overthinking it.

[Dagagad]

I don't think it's that odd for a contending team to use their best option for CL as their closer. You're overthinking it.

 

It’s odd when they have a strategy of intentionally not investing much in their bullpen. That’s an odd combination.

 

Anyway, I’m looking forward to the game day threads of idiots losing their minds when romano is making several million and is moderately unlucky and pretty good rather than moderately lucky and pretty good.

[max silver]

I’m not saying he isn’t the best option. I’m saying a lot of teams would split the saves to save money in arbitration.

 

Other teams do that and those are also the types of teams who aren’t interested in paying much for relievers.

 

I find the middle ground we’ve chosen to be an odd choice. Like are we really going to be happy with Romano’s arb 2 number. Probably not. But we also don’t seem to be the type of team that would do a hader like trade.

 

I had a quick gander various bullpens in the top 15 in saves, and really only came up with a small assortment of contending teams that split the closer duties in this fashion. Nearly every contending team has a definitive closer who has vastly more saves than the rest of the bullpen options. There have been several teams who switched closers mid season due to health and/or underperformance (Dodgers, Yankees and Braves are all examples of this) but for the most part a team chooses the reliever who is best suited to pitch the 9th inning and sticks with this option as much as possible, changing as needed due to availability on any given day.

[Dagagad]

I had a quick gander various bullpens in the top 15 in saves, and really only came up with a small assortment of contending teams that split the closer duties in this fashion. Nearly every contending team has a definitive closer who has vastly more saves than the rest of the bullpen options. There have been several teams who switched closers mid season due to health and/or underperformance (Dodgers, Yankees and Braves are all examples of this) but for the most part a team chooses the reliever who is best suited to pitch the 9th inning and sticks with this option as much as possible, changing as needed due to availability on any given day.

 

Yes, and I’d expect that those teams that do so, are teams that aren’t interested on spending in the pen. And one of the teams that does have a dedicated closer (the brewers) just traded him because he’s too expensive.

 

I didn’t say it was a bad strategy. I said it’s odd. If we are willing to spend so much money on romano in future years, you’d think we’d be willing to spend more in free agency or prospects right now as well.

[Terminator]

It’s odd when they have a strategy of intentionally not investing much in their bullpen. That’s an odd combination.

 

Anyway, I’m looking forward to the game day threads of idiots losing their minds when romano is making several million and is moderately unlucky and pretty good rather than moderately lucky and pretty good.

 

You do this thing where you assign the FO as having X position, and then everything must be black and white within that position. In this case, they haven't invested major money/trade assets toward the bullpen (thank god), but then every single thing must fit within that or it's "odd" to you.

 

It's just not that black and white. No, they haven't doled out 60 million to Rasiel Iglesias but that doesn't necessarily mean that they must also play games with Romano to get his arb number down a couple million bucks.

[max silver]

It’s odd when they have a strategy of intentionally not investing much in their bullpen. That’s an odd combination.

 

Anyway, I’m looking forward to the game day threads of idiots losing their minds when romano is making several million and is moderately unlucky and pretty good rather than moderately lucky and pretty good.

 

This sounds a lot like complaining just for the sake of complaining. The Toronto Blue Jays are a big market team who don't need to intentionally game the arbitration system to artificially deflate their players salaries. They pride themselves as being a player centric organization and not one looking to pinch pennies around the fringes. If Jordan Romano ends up making a few extra million dollars a season in his later arbitration years because he largely got the job done in the closer position this isn't going to hold the team back from making necessary improvements to the rest of the roster. The team does their utmost to keep their players happy, and splitting save opportunities in order to save a few bucks is far out of character for this organization compared to everything Mark Shapiro has shown up to this point.

[Dagagad]

You do this thing where you assign the FO as having X position, and then everything must be black and white within that position. In this case, they haven't invested major money/trade assets toward the bullpen (thank god), but then every single thing must fit within that or it's "odd" to you.

 

It's just not that black and white. No, they haven't doled out 60 million to Rasiel Iglesias but that doesn't necessarily mean that they must also play games with Romano to get his arb number down a couple million bucks.

 

A team literally just traded one of the best closers ever because he’s too expensive. And he’s really f***ing good. We will be paying romano way more than his talent is worth as soon as arb 2 if he continues to be the closer.

 

I absolutely think this is something the front office thinks about. And I also believe that decisions like that are connected to each other. I don’t think that’s crazy.

[Dagagad]

This sounds a lot like complaining just for the sake of complaining. The Toronto Blue Jays are a big market team who don't need to intentionally game the arbitration system to artificially deflate their players salaries. They pride themselves as being a player centric organization and not one looking to pinch pennies around the fringes. If Jordan Romano ends up making a few extra million dollars a season in his later arbitration years because he largely got the job done in the closer position this isn't going to hold the team back from making necessary improvements to the rest of the roster. The team does their utmost to keep their players happy, and splitting save opportunities in order to save a few bucks is far out of character for this organization compared to everything Mark Shapiro has shown up to this point.

 

I mean… we are a big market team that doesn’t have an elite closer or even much elite stuff in our pen in general.. and we are very happy not spending money or prospects on that … so it’s not a crazy question.

 

I’d say that a player centric philosophy doesn’t jive well with a budget oriented approach in the pen. I’d prefer they pick a lane.