General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2022)

[connorp]

He just did, minion.

 

Yeah I wouldn’t take your guys recollection of things as fact

[connorp]

Look at each player through an objective lens, instead of creating a bias for / against.

 

I do bro. One thing that’s positive about being a cold sociopath is that I’m always objective about everything. I take the emotion of it.

 

If I remember correctly, the IL stint came out of the blue and I was questioning it then. Ppl were like “oh, so that’s why he sucked”

[Spanky99]

Yeah, a cervical spine ligament sprain, is f*** all...

[Jimcanuck]

Biggio had hand issues early in 2021, recovered and was tearing the cover off the ball in June before the neck/spine issue.

 

A healthy Biggio shouldn't have an issue delivering 3 WAR.

[Signal]

Biggio has been at best an average player. If he is going to become more than that, hope he does it soon.

[John_Havok]

Biggio has been at best an average player. If he is going to become more than that, hope he does it soon.

 

4 WAR in his first 700 PAs... then replacement level in his next 300, which could largely be explained by some injuries.

 

Therefore Biggio, at best, has already been a well above average player, (average being about 2 WAR in a full season of PAs... which is close enough to 700 to be nitpicky) and is now currently trying to recapture that form post-injury. Will he ... or won't he rebound into his previous form of an above average player is the real question.

 

To say that he has been at best an average player is just ... dumb.

[Deadpool]

Yeah I wouldn’t take your guys recollection of things as fact

 

Biggio dealt with multiple nagging injuries all year long. Beginning in spring training, the left-hander missed a sizeable chunk of time due to a sprained finger on his right throwing hand.

 

Shortly after his finger healed, unfortunately, the former fifth-round selection reinjured it nearly a month later against the Kansas City Royals, which saw a hardly-hit ground ball bounce up and strike his right hand. Though this incident didn’t cause him to spend any time on the injured list, he probably would’ve been better off missing some time rather than attempting to play through this injury.

 

Making matters worse, along with grinding through his finger injury, Biggio was also quietly dealing with a neck strain early on in the schedule and attempted to play through it, too...

Even after Biggio returned from the IL in June, it wasn’t long before he required another lengthy stint away from the team, this time due to a back strain and a UCL strain in his left elbow. As a result, the left-handed infielder largely missed the remainder of the campaign, failing to return for more than a pair of games at the start of October.

 

https://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles/coming_off_injury_riddled_season_2022_is_a_pivotal_year_for_cavan_biggio/s1_13549_36835106

[connorp]

He was quietly dealing with issue that put him on the IL. If you need me to explain that, lmk

[John_Havok]

Biggio doesnt have a hit yet and still has an OBP of .294 - which is higher than Zimmer, Tapia and Bichette.

[Spanky99]

Biggio has been at best an average player. If he is going to become more than that, hope he does it soon.

 

Hahahahaha...

[Signal]

Biggio doesnt have a hit yet and still has an OBP of .294 - which is higher than Zimmer, Tapia and Bichette.

 

That says a lot more about Bo's slow start. There is a lot of swing and miss going on right now. He will find his way.

 

Zimmer is a fielder, not a batter and frankly do not see him contributing much at the plate this year.

 

Tapia has not looked like that guy who was advertised as always getting the bat on the ball...but we shall see.

 

Still very early. Biggio is off to a slow start, hopefully he continues to work it out and gets in a groove. Would like him to get to a place where we do not have to compare him to others going through cold spells.

[connorp]

Hahahahaha...

 

Even Laila has started openly mocking him in case you’ve missed it. Calls him Cavan Smallgio lol. Only half in jest.

Honestly as a Bluejay fan I hope I get crow stuffed in my mouth on him. Also the other current options are just as s*****… so idk

[Spanky99]

Even Laila has started openly mocking him in case you’ve missed it. Calls him Cavan Smallgio lol. Only half in jest.

Honestly as a Bluejay fan I hope I get crow stuffed in my mouth on him. Also the other current options are just as s*****… so idk

 

So what, he was rocking his cock last year. If he believe's it he's an eejiit.

[John_Havok]

That says a lot more about Bo's slow start. There is a lot of swing and miss going on right now. He will find his way.

 

Zimmer is a fielder, not a batter and frankly do not see him contributing much at the plate this year.

 

Tapia has not looked like that guy who was advertised as always getting the bat on the ball...but we shall see.

 

Still very early. Biggio is off to a slow start, hopefully he continues to work it out and gets in a groove. Would like him to get to a place where we do not have to compare him to others going through cold spells.

 

It was just an interesting stat, doesnt really mean anything. In a perfect world, Tapia and Zimmer wouldn't be seeing the field with any regularity.

[Stangstag]

Biggio doesnt have a hit yet and still has an OBP of .294 - which is higher than Zimmer, Tapia and Bichette.

 

Lol nice. Hope he starts f***ing hitting because his eyes are elite

[Spanky99]

Lol nice. Hope he starts f***ing hitting because his eyes are elite

 

He's had like 3 full games with 17 PA's... without a full game schedule yet? Talk about Charlie's...

[Stangstag]

He's had like 3 full games with 17 PA's... without a full game schedule yet? Talk about Charlie's...

 

Yes im aware, but this also goes back to last year. His eye has always been great so he’s a very useful player if he just hits a bit. Hope he pulls it together

[wilko]

It always looks like Biggio grabs the biggest barrel bat in the clubhouse to use.

[John_Havok]

It always looks like Biggio grabs the biggest barrel bat in the clubhouse to use.

 

Yeah, that's what got Reese into trouble too.

[Terminator]

I hate to say it because he was probably my favorite player on the team at one point but I'm pretty sure Biggio is our version of Gleyber Torres. The injuries last year didn't help but the dead ball is killing him more than anything.

 

He's a lefty pull hitter who gets shifted, has a high launch angle, Ks quite a bit, and has an elite BB%. Despite mediocre batted ball data that kind of profile played in 2019 but deaden the ball and it will kill someone like that because it's going to take a decent chunk of his homers and turn them into fly ball outs, which renders his already low BA to levels that make him almost unplayable.

 

Despite hitting 24 jacks in his first 574 ABs in the bigs, his average home run distance was always toward the very bottom of the team around 390 feet. Most guys around the league with average home run distance of 390 feet aren't hitting anywhere close to 20+ homers a season but he was. Deaden the ball and it's not even a huge difference to the eye but if you take 6-10 homers off the board over the course of 160 games and turn them into outs it's going to affect his stat line greatly. It turns him from a .240 hitter with pop to a .225 hitter with subpar power. Pitchers aren't going to respect him as much either so his elite BB% is becoming more pedestrian as well. Regress the lucky BABIP he was getting and his BA continues to crater even further.

 

He looked like a potential star at one point but now I think he's screwed unless he morphs himself into more of a spray hitter who can retain a solid walk rate. But it looks like we've already got that guy in Espinal who is also a superior defender and there is no guarantee that Biggio can change his game like that anyway. Maybe a ban on the shift will help him but even if that happens the 2019-2020 version of Biggio isn't coming back. Guy looks like a mediocre bench player AT BEST moving forward IMO.

[Jimcanuck]

I hate to say it because he was probably my favorite player on the team at one point but I'm pretty sure Biggio is our version of Gleyber Torres. The injuries last year didn't help but the dead ball is killing him more than anything.

 

He's a lefty pull hitter who gets shifted, has a high launch angle, Ks quite a bit, and has an elite BB%. Despite mediocre batted ball data that kind of profile played in 2019 but deaden the ball and it will kill someone like that because it's going to take a decent chunk of his homers and turn them into fly ball outs, which renders his already low BA to levels that make him almost unplayable.

 

Despite hitting 24 jacks in his first 574 ABs in the bigs, his average home run distance was always toward the very bottom of the team around 390 feet. Most guys around the league with average home run distance of 390 feet aren't hitting anywhere close to 20+ homers a season but he was. Deaden the ball and it's not even a huge difference to the eye but if you take 6-10 homers off the board over the course of 160 games and turn them into outs it's going to affect his stat line greatly. It turns him from a .240 hitter with pop to a .225 hitter with subpar power. Pitchers aren't going to respect him as much either so his elite BB% is becoming more pedestrian as well. Regress the lucky BABIP he was getting and his BA continues to crater even further.

 

He looked like a potential star at one point but now I think he's screwed unless he morphs himself into more of a spray hitter who can retain a solid walk rate. But it looks like we've already got that guy in Espinal who is also a superior defender and there is no guarantee that Biggio can change his game like that anyway. Maybe a ban on the shift will help him but even if that happens the 2019-2020 version of Biggio isn't coming back. Guy looks like a mediocre bench player AT BEST moving forward IMO.

 

Maybe, maybe not. Way too early to be making that conclusion. Biggio gets an injury mulligan for 2021 from me.

 

Espinal and Biggio are pretty close in value, based on history. They are actually pretty ideal as teammates, complementing one another. It's too bad we can't really see it because of Chuckles' Tilapia infatuation.

[connorp]

Maybe, maybe not. Way too early to be making that conclusion. Biggio gets an injury mulligan for 2021 from me.

 

Espinal and Biggio are pretty close in value, based on history. They are actually pretty ideal as teammates, complementing one another. It's too bad we can't really see it because of Chuckles' Tilapia infatuation.

 

Chuckles didn’t have a say in the trade I’s assume. Even if he’s setting lineups without guidance, hard to imagine the FO wouldn’t know he’d find his way into the lineup more than late inning punch runner

[connorp]

See, now I have two smarty pants lawyers saying I’m not trolling

[Terminator]

Maybe, maybe not. Way too early to be making that conclusion. Biggio gets an injury mulligan for 2021 from me.

 

Espinal and Biggio are pretty close in value, based on history. They are actually pretty ideal as teammates, complementing one another. It's too bad we can't really see it because of Chuckles' Tilapia infatuation.

 

"Maybe, maybe not?" That's exactly the kind of spineless reply I expect from you Jim. Is he cooked or not? Grow some balls and take a side.

 

And 2021 isn't when this started FYI. His statcast numbers in 2020 were really quite bad but he got some good BABIP luck that year. Add in the deadened ball a year later and that was when he couldn't fake being a good player anymore.

[John_Havok]

"Maybe, maybe not?" That's exactly the kind of spineless reply I expect from you Jim. Is he cooked or not? Grow some balls and take a side.

 

And 2021 isn't when this started FYI. His statcast numbers in 2020 were really quite bad but he got some good BABIP luck that year. Add in the deadened ball a year later and that was when he couldn't fake being a good player anymore.

 

It's not that his 4 WAR in 700 PA was fake. It just may no longer be a reasonable expectation due to injury. The walk rate floor, ability to play multiple defensive positions (albeit not in a plus way...) and swing left handed should give him plenty of room to try and figure out the rest of the hitting part.

[dineke]

ETA on robo umps? That + banning shifts might make biggio a good player again but by then he's probably not on the jays anymore.

[connorp]

It's not that his 4 WAR in 700 PA was fake. It just may no longer be a reasonable expectation due to injury. The walk rate floor, ability to play multiple defensive positions (albeit not in a plus way...) and swing left handed should give him plenty of room to try and figure out the rest of the hitting part.

 

Geez…like he’s Ken Griffey with back problems. It’s not terribly uncommon for a players best years to be the first taste and then they slide off after scouting reports become more solid on them

 

Not to mention stuff Term said

[Spanky99]

Geez…like he’s Ken Griffey with back problems. It’s not terribly uncommon for a players best years to be the first taste and then they slide off after scouting reports become more solid on them

 

Not to mention stuff Term said

 

But 18 games, is cool to cut down Smith, or 10 games is cool to promote a guy, that's played them games in 2 years professionally. lol

[max silver]

"Maybe, maybe not?" That's exactly the kind of spineless reply I expect from you Jim. Is he cooked or not? Grow some balls and take a side.

 

And 2021 isn't when this started FYI. His statcast numbers in 2020 were really quite bad but he got some good BABIP luck that year. Add in the deadened ball a year later and that was when he couldn't fake being a good player anymore.

 

I don't really buy the deadened ball theory as an explanation for his shrinking offensive output. Cavan needs to start squaring up baseballs at a greater rate if he's to return to his previous power output. In 2021 he largely went away from his strengths, namely his elite plate discipline, and started swinging at more pitches off of the plate. This resulted in an increased k rate and decreased walk rate. When you look at his batted ball numbers his best output by far was in his 2019 debut season, his hard hit rate was easily the best of his career. Since then he has stopped squaring up baseballs with as much regularity, as is evidenced by shrinking hard hit rates and barrel rates from 2019 onwards.

 

I think this year is his make or break year to remain with the Blue Jays given the large amount of good infield prospects in the upper levels of the minors. His injury plagued 2021 season can largely be ignored, I don't see how you can reasonably expect any player to play up to their capabilities when dealing with injuries to both hands, the neck and back as well as an elbow injury issue. It's far too early to make any conclusions in 2022 as he has all of 6 batted ball events at this point. It might be time to pump the brakes a little on definitively concluding that the guy is washed up.

[Spanky99]

Yes im aware, but this also goes back to last year. His eye has always been great so he’s a very useful player if he just hits a bit. Hope he pulls it together

 

He was hurt all year?