General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2021)

[Olerud363]

Pretty much the entire reason his defensive metrics show so poorly seems to be due to errors. Lately aside from the odd missed throw I have no other complaints about his defence. He's shown good range, made a lot of nice plays and his throws have improved a ton as well. I really don't think he's been performing badly at short stop lately but that doesn't improve his overall season numbers as a whole given how long he struggled for early on.

 

I mostly only look at the fangraphs numbers and Bo has been hovering around 0 there. At least according to fangraphs Tatis is worse.

 

If I remember accurately most of his errors were on routine plays. So it's not like he's making errors because he is stretched at short stop.

[Stangstag]

I mostly only look at the fangraphs numbers and Bo has been hovering around 0 there. At least according to fangraphs Tatis is worse.

 

If I remember accurately most of his errors were on routine plays. So it's not like he's making errors because he is stretched at short stop.

 

Like 90% of his errors were made in the first month or two of the season though

[Olerud363]

Like 90% of his errors were made in the first month or two of the season though

 

Yeah. So right now Bo is a guy that made a lot of errors early, has also made some nice plays, and isn't a complete disaster.

 

Organization had no desire to move him this year even though they had Semien, so I assume he'll be there next year too, maybe if he has a bad year in 2022 they look at a defense first short stop as a potential means to eke out another win or two.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Re-sign Ray & Matz

Grichuk plus a prospect for JD

Biggio back to 2B

Sign Schwarber

 

CF Springer

1B Guerrero

3B Donaldson

SS Bichette

RF Hernandez

DH Schwarber

C Kirk

LF Gurriel

2B Biggio

 

Bench - Espinal, Jansen, an OF with speed and ability to play CF, a LHB utility type

 

Ray

Berrios

Ryu

Manoah

Matz

 

Sign 3 or 4 decent bullpen arms

[Laika]

Pearson looks like complete s***, btw. Yeah he will hit 100 the odd time and snap off the odd good breaking ball but for the most part the guy is just pumping it in at like 98 and missing his spot by like one or two feet each time.

 

He definitely does not look like a starting pitcher.

[KevinGregg]

Pearson looks like complete s***, btw. Yeah he will hit 100 the odd time and snap off the odd good breaking ball but for the most part the guy is just pumping it in at like 98 and missing his spot by like one or two feet each time.

 

He definitely does not look like a starting pitcher.

 

He doesn’t even look like the ace reliever we saw last year in the playoffs.

Something is definitely wrong with him

[Brownie19]

He doesn’t even look like the ace reliever we saw last year in the playoffs.

Something is definitely wrong with him

 

He does have a sports hernia...

[Abomination]

Pearson looks like complete s***, btw. Yeah he will hit 100 the odd time and snap off the odd good breaking ball but for the most part the guy is just pumping it in at like 98 and missing his spot by like one or two feet each time.

 

He definitely does not look like a starting pitcher.

 

So what you're saying is that he basically looks like what many harder throwing young starting pitchers look like before they settle in? Guys like Giolito, Wheeler, Alcantara, Glasnow, etc?

[Laika]

So what you're saying is that he basically looks like what many harder throwing young starting pitchers look like before they settle in? Guys like Giolito, Wheeler, Alcantara, Glasnow, etc?

 

Pretty much. But you also need to list the names who never settled in.

[RustyTrombone]

Found a new fun site to play with.

 

http://http://pitchingapp.pitchingbot.com/

 

It basically breaks down each MLB pitchers repertoire and assigns a 20-80 grade on them based on spin rate, velocity, movement and location.

 

Some notable Jays:

 

Robbie Ray - 65 FF, 55 SL, 50 CU, 40 CH - Matches the eye test, great fastball, good slider, show me curve and change.

Alek Manoah - 55 FF, 40 SI, 55 SL, 50 CH - kinda shits on Manoah, below average stuff overall according to this.

Berrios - 60 CU, 55 FF, 55 CH, 50 SI - more kind to Berrios, kinda surprising since him and Manoah are so similar.

Ryu - Wont list his individual pitches but his overall stuff is 35 and overall command is 65 which makes sense.

Romano - 70 FF, 55 SL, 25 SI - Matches the eye test again, outstanding fastball, good slider

Mayza - 60 SI, 60 SL - Not much to say here, eye test matches up again, probably should be used more often

Cimber - 75! SI, 40 SL, 55 FF - This site loves Cimber, elite sinker!

Pearson - His overall is dragged down by the start he made in Houston in May but his metrics since coming up as a reliever have been insane, with probably around a 70 overall rating.

 

Really like this site. Recommend everyone to take a look.

 

Also some Rays ratings so we can cry together:

Glasnow - 75 overall

Mclanahan - 70 overall

Patino - 60 overall

Baz - saw a screepcap on twitter that said like 75 or 80 overall

Edited September 21, 2021 by RustyTrombone

[King]

That site looks great. Thanks for posting.

 

55FF, 40SI, 55SL, 50CH is definitely not below average stuff btw. Regarding Manoah

[RustyTrombone]

That site looks great. Thanks for posting.

 

55FF, 40SI, 55SL, 50CH is definitely not below average stuff btw. Regarding Manoah

 

Just going by their metric they assigned a overall of 45 on Manoah. Thats below average on the 20-80 scale no?

[King]

Just going by their metric they assigned a overall of 45 on Manoah. Thats below average on the 20-80 scale no?

Yeah, I guess so. Maybe they ding him hard for the sinker. He's definitely not a 45 though, in the real world.

 

Like, Chase De Jong is a 45 on the app, maybe a 35 or 40 IRL. They are not the same

[RustyTrombone]

Yeah, I guess so. Maybe they ding him hard for the sinker. He's definitely not a 45 though, in the real world.

 

Yea, Manoahs rating is one where it kinda feels off. Like how is his SL only a 45 for stuff when its so similar to Berrios CU which got a 55 for stuff. Maybe thats a case where if they change the classification on Manoahs breaking ball to a CU it would grade favorably if compared to other CUs.

[RustyTrombone]

 

Bazs metrics from last night...

[King]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2341[/ATTACH]

 

Bazs metrics from last night...

Holy s*** lol

[RustyTrombone]

Holy s*** lol

 

Imagine a 2023 Rays rotation of Glasnow, Baz, Mclanahan, Patino. I dont think any other team even gets close in terms of pure stuff.

[Brownie19]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2341[/ATTACH]

 

Bazs metrics from last night...

 

Shane Baz f***s

[BlueRocky]

Pearson looks like complete s***, btw. Yeah he will hit 100 the odd time and snap off the odd good breaking ball but for the most part the guy is just pumping it in at like 98 and missing his spot by like one or two feet each time.

 

He definitely does not look like a starting pitcher.

 

His command wasn’t this s*** in the minors. I think the injuries + hype train really went to his head. He needs a fresh healthy season to reboot

[Stangstag]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2341[/ATTACH]

 

Bazs metrics from last night...

 

That BAZtard will give us trouble for years to come

[max silver]

That site looks great. Thanks for posting.

 

55FF, 40SI, 55SL, 50CH is definitely not below average stuff btw. Regarding Manoah

 

The slider rating in particular seems awfully low. When Manoah's slider is on it certainly plays higher than a 55 rating pitch.

[Daniel Labude]

The slider rating in particular seems awfully low. When Manoah's slider is on it certainly plays higher than a 55 rating pitch.

 

His overall success will range around his slider imo

[RustyTrombone]

The slider rating in particular seems awfully low. When Manoah's slider is on it certainly plays higher than a 55 rating pitch.

 

The model on that sites uses velocity as one of it parameters to judge pitches so since Manoahs slider comes in at like 80 mph it probably gets dinged when compared to the elite ones like Degroms and Coles. Manoahs slider is probably like a 65 grade pitch irl.

[G-Snarls]

That BAZtard will give us trouble for years to come

 

He ugly tho

[Jimcanuck]

the last Rays pitcher to come up and do this to the jays was Matt Moore

[BigCecil]

Can't say I agree with the mostly fully healthy comment as Springer was far from the only guy to miss a lot of time. The bullpen was basically decimated by injury. Yates missed the entire season, Phelps and Merryweather both missed most of the year, Borucki missed significant time as well. Pearson has had yet another season ruined by injury, Kirk missed a good chunk of time, and Biggio had his year pretty much ruined due to various injuries as well.

 

You could do a report like this for the season on TB, NYY and BoSox too. Glasnow, Severino and Sale top the list for them as arms.

 

Yates and Merryweather on this list? Those two were both crap shoots and if the FO based much team performance on them, thats just bad judgement. In order to really be missed they would have to show they actually could perform. I like Biggio but he struggled and is pretty weak defensively. League has found the hole up in his swing. Kirk is a plus bat for C but again he is a rookie with D limitations. Borucki?...a chandelier unproven at MLB level as is Pearson. Of your list Phelps was probably a material loss.

 

Aside from Springer our main pieces were predominantly healthy.

 

Manoah more than made up for Pearson woes. He was found money this season this early in his career. A lot went right for this team.

[max silver]

You could do a report like this for the season on TB, NYY and BoSox too. Glasnow, Severino and Sale top the list for them as arms.

 

Yates and Merryweather on this list? Those two were both crap shoots and if the FO based much team performance on them, thats just bad judgement. In order to really be missed they would have to show they actually could perform. I like Biggio but he struggled and is pretty weak defensively. League has found the hole up in his swing. Kirk is a plus bat for C but again he is a rookie with D limitations. Borucki?...a chandelier unproven at MLB level as is Pearson. Of your list Phelps was probably a material loss.

 

Aside from Springer our main pieces were predominantly healthy.

 

Manoah more than made up for Pearson woes. He was found money this season this early in his career. A lot went right for this team.

 

Are you really suggesting that the bullpen pitchers who were injured had no effect on how this season unfolded? The team lost most of their expected back end of the bullpen for crying out loud. This has hardly been an everything is awesome injury season for the Jays despite how much you seem to want to belittle the players who ended up missing large chunks of time due to injury. Plenty has gone right for the team but there has also been plenty that has gone wrong as well.

 

I'm going to give Biggio a chance to get healthy and return to playing a position he is suited for before completely writing him off.

[BCZ]

K.....

 

Dude, use actual words or don't, no need for stupidness.

[The Iceman]

the last Rays pitcher to come up and do this to the jays was Matt Moore

 

Did what?

2 runs in 5 innings.

I think you are misremembering. MATT MOORE???

 

Moore in his 1st start against the jays gave up 4 runs in 4 innings.

[BigCecil]

Are you really suggesting that the bullpen pitchers who were injured had no effect on how this season unfolded? The team lost most of their expected back end of the bullpen for crying out loud. This has hardly been an everything is awesome injury season for the Jays despite how much you seem to want to belittle the players who ended up missing large chunks of time due to injury. Plenty has gone right for the team but there has also been plenty that has gone wrong as well.

 

I'm going to give Biggio a chance to get healthy and return to playing a position he is suited for before completely writing him off.

 

If your FO blames pen woes on Merryweather, Yates and Borucki being injured you deserve to blow a lot of games late.