Kirk

[TheDragon]

One day the pressure/attention to his size is going to get to Kirk and he is going to drop all the weight and get in shape and it's going to ruin his bat forever.

[Dokken]

One day the pressure/attention to his size is going to get to Kirk and he is going to drop all the weight and get in shape and it's going to ruin his bat forever.

 

More like carrying too much extra weight is going to wear out his knees (and possibly other parts like lower back) prematurely. Particularly for a catcher, whose body takes a lot more wear and tear, this is a real concern!

[Dokken]

Being fat can increase power IF the player can still rotate their body quickly.

 

For most fat players the added weight and size slows down their movement. For the rare fatty that stays quick in the body, the added weight helps! It's all physics.

 

 

 

It's not a given that we should want Kirk to lose a single f***ing pound.

 

Yeah this is why a heavier bat will not necessarily lead to more 'power'. Bat speed is improved by lightening and thus the era of the maple wood bats. That write-up you quoted describes things well but leaves out the concept of torque. This can best we described as forced derived from a circular motion (like when a baseball player rotates his body during his hitting motion). The torque will translate to force at contact with the ball and is dependent on lever arm length (better for a taller lankier player) and force (mass and angular acceleration).

 

If nothing else, the small strike zone is definitely a benefit for the hitter.

[Spanky__99]

Yeah this is why a heavier bat will not necessarily lead to more 'power'. Bat speed is improved by lightening and thus the era of the maple wood bats. That write-up you quoted describes things well but leaves out the concept of torque. This can best we described as forced derived from a circular motion (like when a baseball player rotates his body during his hitting motion). The torque will translate to force at contact with the ball and is dependent on lever arm length (better for a taller lankier player) and force (mass and angular acceleration).

 

If nothing else, the small strike zone is definitely a benefit for the hitter.

 

You're like Olerud, neat.

[Dokken]

You're like Olerud, neat.

 

Like Olerud in what way ?

[Spanky__99]

Like Olerud in what way ?

 

A 363 average...

[Dokken]

A 363 average...

 

yeah if I was right 36% of the time, I could probably be a pretty successful GM! Anyways, I'm out for now. Talk to you later.

[Spanky__99]

yeah if I was right 36% of the time, I could probably be a pretty successful GM! Anyways, I'm out for now. Talk to you later.

 

Sure thing, mate???

[Key22]

Kirk = Kirby Puckett

[Krylian]

Kirk = Kirby Puckett

 

You think?

 

 

[Carlos Danger]

Kirk = Kirby Puckett

 

How fast is Kirk? Kirby played CF, and well.

[Olerud363]

Kirk fatness = 265, groundball = 62.5, oppo = 44

Vlad fatness = 260, groundball = 55, oppo = 24

 

The only way either can work is

 

fatness = 250, groundball = 45, oppo = 33

 

So follow those three stats, all the answers are there

 

if groundball goes lower then 45, oppo can go lower.

[Brownie19]

Yeah this is why a heavier bat will not necessarily lead to more 'power'. Bat speed is improved by lightening and thus the era of the maple wood bats. That write-up you quoted describes things well but leaves out the concept of torque. This can best we described as forced derived from a circular motion (like when a baseball player rotates his body during his hitting motion). The torque will translate to force at contact with the ball and is dependent on lever arm length (better for a taller lankier player) and force (mass and angular acceleration).

 

If nothing else, the small strike zone is definitely a benefit for the hitter.

 

Except Maple is heavier than Ash

[Boxcar]

Except Maple is heavier than Ash

 

Maple is barely heavier than Ash, but also harder.

 

The main reason that Maple is used by the vast majority of hitters is that it absorbs less energy than ash or birch bats. This makes hitting the ball off the barrel (meaning towards the end or hands) much more painful, but since there is very little give with maple, almost all of the energy in a swing, plus the energy of the pitch coming in, is transferred to the ball in an ideal situation vs. ash which is softer and will absorb some of that energy.

 

Aka, in theory, the same swing, same barrel, same pitch off a maple bat will have a higher EV compared to an ash bat.

Edited September 24, 2020 by Boxcar

[Brownie19]

Maple is barely heavier than Ash, but also harder.

 

The main reason that Maple is used by the vast majority of hitters is that it absorbs less energy than ash or birch bats. This makes hitting the ball off the barrel (meaning towards the end or hands) much more painful, but since there is very little give with maple, almost all of the energy in a swing, plus the energy of the pitch coming in, is transferred to the ball in an ideal situation vs. ash which is softer and will absorb some of that energy.

 

Aka, in theory, the same swing, same barrel, same pitch off a maple bat will have a higher EV compared to an ash bat.

 

Correct Boxy. My point was he suggested lighter bats improve bat speed and thus why everyone uses maple bats now. That isn't really true. Maple is heavier, but not too heavy to swing and has all the benefits you described above, which is why it's most popular.

[Boxcar]

Correct Boxy. My point was he suggested lighter bats improve bat speed and thus why everyone uses maple bats now. That isn't really true. Maple is heavier, but not too heavy to swing and has all the benefits you described above, which is why it's most popular.

 

Ah ok, sorry. I kinda half assed the reading.

[Deadpool]

Correct Boxy. My point was he suggested lighter bats improve bat speed and thus why everyone uses maple bats now. That isn't really true. Maple is heavier, but not too heavy to swing and has all the benefits you described above, which is why it's most popular.

 

Maple also has the nicest resonance for drum shells. Other than what I keep in my pants, it really is the ultimate wood.

[wilko]

Maple also has the nicest resonance for drum shells. Other than what I keep in my pants, it really is the ultimate wood.

 

[Deadpool]

 

And, that's the ultimate Doctor, so it was an excellent choice of gif!

[Key22]

You think?

 

 

 

 

[Terminator]

I didn't realize that Kirby Puckett only had 45 career WAR. He was a first ballot HoFer with 82% of the vote.

[The Cats Ass]

I didn't realize that Kirby Puckett only had 45 career WAR. He was a first ballot HoFer with 82% of the vote.

 

I feel like they didn't use WAR back then. The fact he had to retire early because of glaucoma probably also pulled on the voters heart strings and helped him collect some votes.

[connorp]

I feel like they didn't use WAR back then. The fact he had to retire early because of glaucoma probably also pulled on the voters heart strings and helped him collect some votes.

 

Yeah I think they waived the counting stats portion of it for sure. He seemed to be on the path- 12 years- 7 around Top 5 for MVP and a ROY. I guess the most glaring difference in value is the D...where he was a minus defender per sabr but 6-time Gold Glove winner. I cant remember well enough if that was the Derek Jeter effect or not, prob. That would've helped his case though.

[Olerud363]

Yeah I think they waived the counting stats portion of it for sure. He seemed to be on the path- 12 years- 7 around Top 5 for MVP and a ROY. I guess the most glaring difference in value is the D...where he was a minus defender per sabr but 6-time Gold Glove winner. I cant remember well enough if that was the Derek Jeter effect or not, prob. That would've helped his case though.

 

Take this with a grain of salt as I was 14 or so last time I watched Pucket many years ago... like a lot of fans around my age they would of seen Pucket and Devon White in the same game every time Jays played the Twins.

 

I remember Pucket looking like you'd expect, kind of like Kirk would chasing fly balls, tried hard, determined, made what looked like spectacular high effort catches but didn't get to everything.

 

White got to everything and most of the time got there in plenty of time, so it didn't look high effort. He was very graceful.

 

I'm probably just remembering it the way I think it should of looked based on the advanced stats 30 years later.

[Dokken]

Maple is barely heavier than Ash, but also harder.

 

The main reason that Maple is used by the vast majority of hitters is that it absorbs less energy than ash or birch bats. This makes hitting the ball off the barrel (meaning towards the end or hands) much more painful, but since there is very little give with maple, almost all of the energy in a swing, plus the energy of the pitch coming in, is transferred to the ball in an ideal situation vs. ash which is softer and will absorb some of that energy.

 

Aka, in theory, the same swing, same barrel, same pitch off a maple bat will have a higher EV compared to an ash bat.

 

This is actually a really interesting (although somewhat pedantic topic area). Brownie is right that the current generation of maple wood bats are more dense than white ash bats. I went back and looked up some info online to see if I was just misremembering (aka up my ass), but it seems I was actually in line with what has been at times touted in the past for maple.

 

Here is a 2016 article: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2016/08/15/mlb-broken-bats-fan-safety-maple-bats/88733714/

 

In which the great (ROTFLMAO) Bob Costas is quoted as saying "Maple bats “are easier to wield,’’ said Bob Costas, host and announcer for MLB Network. “You’re getting greater bat speed and great impact upon contact. It’s going to be a hard sell to give that up.’’

 

I had found another article where the (not) great Costas said something similar but can't find it now.

 

Here is another article that states:

"Maple bats are harder and lighter, making them a popular choice among big leaguers"

https://www.pressreader.com/usa/usa-today-us-edition/20160815/282123520909869

 

But the situation (from what I have looked up) is a lot more complicated. The wood used almost exclusively between 1950 and 2000 for bats was white ash (which supplanted the significantly heavier/denser hickory). Some types of maple have similar density as white ash (low density maple) while others (specifically sugar maple) have higher density. But it seems all maple tends to be 'stiffer than white ash and so there is less handle flex along with the issue about it not compressing upon impact. Although it is thought the compression of the ash bat leads to the so-called 'trampoline effect' that may offset the apparent advantage of maple.

 

Apparently MLB commissioned a study (I think results were released in 2005 or 2008) that concluded no obvious advantage of maple over ash. Of course the issue leading to this study was the tendency of the maple bats to 'explode' into multiple sharp fragments that were dangerous projectiles.

 

Anyways, MLB outlawed 'low density maple' starting in 2011, but 'grandfathered in' existing players using those bats. So the current maple bat (used by most all players) is indeed using a more dense wood that is harder and stiffer than white ash. Also it seems they tweaked the required dimensions lowering the maximum barrel diameter from 2.7 to 2.6 inches and increasing the minimum handle width slightly. As far as 'lighter', the rule is that the bat can not be more than a drop 3.5 (weight in ounces must be not more than 3.5 less than the length in inches). So you can't really come up with an 'ultralight bat' under those rules anyways.

 

I think the one thing the stiffer maple was (at least at one time) an advantage for was to narrow out the handle and put more mass in the barrel (expanding the sweet-spot), while still maintaining a relatively strong and rigid handle portion (but when they break all hell breaks loose).

 

Imagine what could be done with modern composite technology to make the ultimate baseball bat - 600 + ft ??

[Boxcar]

Yeah I think they waived the counting stats portion of it for sure. He seemed to be on the path- 12 years- 7 around Top 5 for MVP and a ROY. I guess the most glaring difference in value is the D...where he was a minus defender per sabr but 6-time Gold Glove winner. I cant remember well enough if that was the Derek Jeter effect or not, prob. That would've helped his case though.

 

Defensive metrics that FG has to use for Puckett's time period are trash.