Vlad moving to 1B

[Spanky99]

I think a lot of this is Austin Martin motivated. It was being planned but once he fell into their laps they accelerated it. I think they might want Martin at 3rd next year so he's a part of the young core and they're giving Vladdy these 60 games now to get used to 1B.

 

No man, maybe Groshans, not Martin.

[THANOS]

No man, maybe Groshans, not Martin.

 

So many fans forget about him.

[Spanky99]

So many fans forget about him.

 

thur dumn

[Spanky99]

needs to be able to order cheeseburgs n pizza pies.

 

lame bro, lame!

[BlueBaller]

lame bro, lame!

athletes should be in tip top shape, chubby.

[Bobthe4th]

I think a lot of this is Austin Martin motivated. It was being planned but once he fell into their laps they accelerated it. I think they might want Martin at 3rd next year so he's a part of the young core and they're giving Vladdy these 60 games now to get used to 1B.

 

You're reading too much into it. The front office warned Vlad that he needed to be in better shape if he wanted to stick at 3rd. He's still fat, so he is now at 1B. If he keeps overeating he'll be a full time DH at 25.

[Boxcar]

Yeah but he does 'gain value' if he works his ass off and becomes a league average 3rd baseman. Didn't most peg Bo to move off SS when he was drafted? Didn't he work his tail off to get into better shape and improve his defense to the point that he's expected to stick at SS for the foreseeable future?

 

If Bo didn't work hard, he might already be at 2nd base, which would hurt the Blue Jays right now.

 

Being in shape theoretically also increases his base running abilities and decreases the chance of injury. Christ - being in good shape probably improves his defense at 1st base too...wouldn't that be a good thing? Wouldn't it be nice to have early career Pujols defense instead of straight to the Prince Fielder defense?

 

If Biggio let himself go, got fat, which eliminated his above average speed and made his defense below average at 2nd to the point he had to move to 1st....would everyone be OK with that? or would you criticize him? Personally, I would criticize him as it because it would hurt his career and hurt the team.

 

Listing a bunch of non-sensical hypotheticals isn't very compelling. Vlad was never going to be a league average 3B. This was obvious to anyone who watched him play third. His range was bad, his glove was bad, his first step was bad. Getting in shape would help.maybe one of those. Not sure how you can compare to Bichette but ok, I'll oblige.

 

If Bichette had to move off SS because he wasn't good enough and needed to move to third, then he'd be just as valuable. Someone else would play short. Not a big deal.

 

I believe the issue stems from a group of people who, via extreme homerism, had this strange perception that Vlad was essentially going to morph into a different person and go from one of the worst 3B in baseball to an average one. I remember watching Vlad make plays at third what were like 85%+ outs and people fawning over him for making them. It's even part of the reason I'm glad he's moving to first.

 

I'm not going to address the Biggio getting fat thing because it's really dumb and the answer is obvious

[Boxcar]

I wanna win the World Series , not the war World Series. Jesus Christ, vlad to 1b is a no brainer

 

Well, hate to rain on your anti-WAR crusade but Vlad will contribute just as much WAR at first, maybe even more.

[Boxcar]

I think a lot of this is Austin Martin motivated. It was being planned but once he fell into their laps they accelerated it. I think they might want Martin at 3rd next year so he's a part of the young core and they're giving Vladdy these 60 games now to get used to 1B.

 

If Groshans works out, I see Martin being kind of like our Bellinger or Bryant. Probably plays more of the time in the OF but can move to cover the IF on any given day.

[Spanky99]

Listing a bunch of non-sensical hypotheticals isn't very compelling. Vlad was never going to be a league average 3B. This was obvious to anyone who watched him play third. His range was bad, his glove was bad, his first step was bad. Getting in shape would help.maybe one of those. Not sure how you can compare to Bichette but ok, I'll oblige.

 

If Bichette had to move off SS because he wasn't good enough and needed to move to third, then he'd be just as valuable. Someone else would play short. Not a big deal.

 

I believe the issue stems from a group of people who, via extreme homerism, had this strange perception that Vlad was essentially going to morph into a different person and go from one of the worst 3B in baseball to an average one. I remember watching Vlad make plays at third what were like 85%+ outs and people fawning over him for making them. It's even part of the reason I'm glad he's moving to first.

 

I'm not going to address the Biggio getting fat thing because it's really dumb and the answer is obvious

 

But you could've made a play, Vlad couldn't, lol.

[Jimcanuck]

The Vlad 3B experiment was fine. His strong accurate arm was a good reason to see if he could handle it. The work he put in on his footwork etc will serve him well at 1B. He can also now play 3B for a short time if necessary due to injury, etc.

 

It made sense to start him at the highest value defensive position he might be able to handle, and move him down the spectrum if not. Like pitchers, develop them as starters until they show they aren't cut out for it.

[Boxcar]

But you could've made a play, Vlad couldn't, lol.

 

I clearly said if I was given like fifty chances, you soulless ginger bitch

[Brownie19]

Listing a bunch of non-sensical hypotheticals isn't very compelling. Vlad was never going to be a league average 3B. This was obvious to anyone who watched him play third. His range was bad, his glove was bad, his first step was bad. Getting in shape would help.maybe one of those. Not sure how you can compare to Bichette but ok, I'll oblige.

 

If Bichette had to move off SS because he wasn't good enough and needed to move to third, then he'd be just as valuable. Someone else would play short. Not a big deal.

 

I believe the issue stems from a group of people who, via extreme homerism, had this strange perception that Vlad was essentially going to morph into a different person and go from one of the worst 3B in baseball to an average one. I remember watching Vlad make plays at third what were like 85%+ outs and people fawning over him for making them. It's even part of the reason I'm glad he's moving to first.

 

I'm not going to address the Biggio getting fat thing because it's really dumb and the answer is obvious

 

Fair enough - Vladdy was always destine to play 1st. I can buy that. I don't think he gave himself the best chance to compete and play 3rd, but what's done is done.

 

I don't get why the Biggio example is dumb. If Biggio adds 25 lbs this offseason and can no longer handle 2nd base or the OF and loses all his base running ability - nobody should be OK with that. At what point isn't it OK for Vladdy to continue adding weight? When he becomes too fat to play 1st base and has to DH? He seems to get a pass because he's 'big boned' and the prodigy child here.

 

I also disagree that Bo would be just as valuable at 3rd (or 2nd) as he is at SS. SS is a premium position and the Jays literally don't even have another option. Bo being able to play a solid SS is huge both for the short and the long term success of this team. I'm happy he's put the work in to transform his body and to make the improvements to stick there.

[EdwinsParrot]

It was always gonna end up this way. Jays just speeding up the process I guess.

[BlueRocky]

Steering away from all these hypotheticals, the Future outlook makes more sense now:

 

C: Danny Jansen, Reese McGuire

1B: Vladimir Guerrero jr

2B: Cavan Biggio

SS: Bo Bichette

3B:

CF:

LF: Lourdes Gurriel jr

RF:

DH: Rowdy Tellez

 

Farm system:

(C / DH) Alejandro Kirk, Gabriel Moreno, Riley Adams, Philip Clarke

(3B/CF) Austin Martin

(3B/SS) Jordan Groshans, Orelvis Martinez, Kevin Smith

(2B/SS) Miguel Hiraldo, Otto Lopez, Rikelvin De Castro, Estiven Machado, Manuel Beltre jr

(OF) Dasan Brown, Chavez Young, Alberto Rodriguez

(RF) Griffin Conine

[Bobthe4th]

Steering away from all these hypotheticals, the Future outlook makes more sense now:

 

C: Danny Jansen, Reese McGuire

1B: Vladimir Guerrero jr

2B: Cavan Biggio

SS: Bo Bichette

3B:

CF:

LF: Lourdes Gurriel jr

RF:

DH: Rowdy Tellez

 

Farm system:

(C / DH) Alejandro Kirk, Gabriel Moreno, Riley Adams, Philip Clarke

(3B/CF) Austin Martin

(3B/SS) Jordan Groshans, Orelvis Martinez, Kevin Smith

(2B/SS) Miguel Hiraldo, Otto Lopez, Rikelvin De Castro, Estiven Machado, Manuel Beltre jr

(OF) Dasan Brown, Chavez Young, Alberto Rodriguez

(RF) Griffin Conine

 

A big year for Tellez and Gurriel for diferent reasons. Tellez's last chance to stick (he's out of options next year) and can Gurriel follow up his breakthrough?

[BlueRocky]

A big year for Tellez and Gurriel for diferent reasons. Tellez's last chance to stick (he's out of options next year) and can Gurriel follow up his breakthrough?

 

I love Gurriel’s advanced metrics since last year. The 11.2% barrel rate, 90.2MPH EV (Top 109.6), .339 WOBA (.348 XWOBA) vs fastballs and an elite .383 WOBA vs breaking and .412 WOBA (way outperformed XWOBA) vs offspeed pitches suggest his improved plate approach has tapped into the plus bat-to-bat skills. There’s also plus raw power in that bat. He was crushing everything after we called him back up as a left fielder. At one point early last season he was on pace with Ketel Marte in metrics, that should speak volumes in itself.

 

124 wRC+ suggest we could be seeing a 4 WAR full season from Gurriel. 1.8 fWAR in 84 games for 2019 wasn’t far behind that. Gurriel is being very underrated and I don’t even think he’s peaked yet (AKA this isn’t his final form).

[Bobthe4th]

I love Gurriel’s advanced metrics since last year. The 11.2% barrel rate, 90.2MPH EV (Top 109.6), .339 WOBA (.348 XWOBA) vs fastballs and an elite .383 WOBA vs breaking and .412 WOBA (way outperformed XWOBA) vs offspeed pitches suggest his improved plate approach has tapped into the plus bat-to-bat skills. There’s also plus raw power in that bat. He was crushing everything after we called him back up as a left fielder. At one point early last season he was on pace with Ketel Marte in metrics, that should speak volumes in itself.

 

124 wRC+ suggest we could be seeing a 4 WAR full season from Gurriel. 1.8 fWAR in 84 games for 2019 wasn’t far behind that. Gurriel is being very underrated and I don’t even think he’s peaked yet (AKA this isn’t his final form).

 

TBF Gurriel was so bad at the start of last season he was sent to AAA and came back a completely different player, so it's a too early to cement his place in the future dynasty IMO. I've always liked him though so let's hope he continues to contribute!

[Deadpool]

TBF Gurriel was so bad at the start of last season he was sent to AAA and came back a completely different player, so it's a too early to cement his place in the future dynasty IMO. I've always liked him though so let's hope he continues to contribute!

 

Also, remember that Gurriel had to sit out quite a while after he defected and was signed, then he managed an injury IIRC, he wasn't playing ball for a while there. Hopefully what we saw after his re-promote was just him having gotten his groove back.

[BlueBaller]

Am I the only one who sees vladdy struggling to play first. He's a DH.

[L54]

Am I the only one who sees vladdy struggling to play first. He's a DH.

 

Yup I think so. What part of first is going to give him trouble in your eyes?

[L54]

Vlad isn’t that bad of an athlete. He looks like s*** but he moves pretty well. He’s got pretty decent hands and anything more than that at first is gravy. He will adjust fine.

[BlueBaller]

Yup I think so. What part of first is going to give him trouble in your eyes?

He's just a terrible fielder.

[max silver]

I love Gurriel’s advanced metrics since last year. The 11.2% barrel rate, 90.2MPH EV (Top 109.6), .339 WOBA (.348 XWOBA) vs fastballs and an elite .383 WOBA vs breaking and .412 WOBA (way outperformed XWOBA) vs offspeed pitches suggest his improved plate approach has tapped into the plus bat-to-bat skills. There’s also plus raw power in that bat. He was crushing everything after we called him back up as a left fielder. At one point early last season he was on pace with Ketel Marte in metrics, that should speak volumes in itself.

 

124 wRC+ suggest we could be seeing a 4 WAR full season from Gurriel. 1.8 fWAR in 84 games for 2019 wasn’t far behind that. Gurriel is being very underrated and I don’t even think he’s peaked yet (AKA this isn’t his final form).

 

Gurriel has truly massive potential. I love the fact that he was basically learning how to play left field for the first time in his career, and despite that he was still making gold glove quality plays out there on a regular basis. Once he's fully adjusted and doesn't have to play so shallow his defensive metrics are likely going to explode. I'm just hoping the barrage of leg injuries doesn't start robbing him of his speed too much.

[Krylian]

Vlad isn’t that bad of an athlete. He looks like s*** but he moves pretty well. He’s got pretty decent hands and anything more than that at first is gravy. He will adjust fine.

 

It's the "looks like s***" part that throws people off.

[EastCoaster]

A big year for Tellez and Gurriel for diferent reasons. Tellez's last chance to stick (he's out of options next year) and can Gurriel follow up his breakthrough?

 

Tellez really is a non issue at this point anymore they gave the job to Guerrero and Rowdy isn't going to split the DH position with just Vlad Jr there's other players that will get some reps as the DH when needed so his PA will likely be down significantly from last season. I can't see where a 227 avg and 293 OBP bat can really change the course of what's decision making that's been happening with the first base or the DH position. The opportunities are fading fast with the talented youngsters that could be coming up in next few years.

[Slade]

He's just a terrible fielder.

 

Based off of his extensive time at 1B?

[wamco]

Well, hate to rain on your anti-WAR crusade but Vlad will contribute just as much WAR at first, maybe even more.

 

Of course, because he was a bad 3bman. He wasn’t going to ever be a good 3bman but homers thought he would and increase his WAR immensely vs 1b

[L54]

Vladdy making plays at first tonight