BASEBALL IS BACk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Spanky__99]

Lets call it a day!

[Deadpool]

Well, let's see here. 1/3 of MLB revenue is ticket sales. MLB is proposing 80 games (I think). So percentage-wise, you should be looking at players receiving 1/3 of their normal, full-season salary. Players have already received some of their 2020 pay in the deal struck before. IMO, the only real issue is the higher scaling percentage for highly-paid players. Players in the lower end are probably getting paid more in the deal.

 

The owners take all the risks, that's what they and their enablers keep telling us, right? One of the risks is that you might have to pay players their contracted salaries even if you aren't making the revenue that you expect.

 

f*** the owners, and f*** their ********.

[Boxcar]

The owners take all the risks, that's what they and their enablers keep telling us, right? One of the risks is that you might have to pay players their contracted salaries even if you aren't making the revenue that you expect.

 

f*** the owners, and f*** their ********.

 

Yes, how dare owners not want to lose money. They are billionehs and millionehs so who cares if they lose some? We should force them to agree to whatever deal the players want. We could definitely still play baseball and players could still make as much money without any owners.

[KevinGregg]

For some reason mlb wants to share the losses with the players this year when they have never shared profits in the past. That's not right and that's not fair. If league profits went up dramatically players would have still been paid by their old contracts. So the players should get paid the same amount just like always.

 

But the players need to acknowledge that some teams are going to have massive liquidity problems that will make paying their high salaries significantly more difficult than normal.

 

So my pitch would be a hybrid model with some salary deferral and some revenue sharing. Basically that players get paid this year based on a revenue sharing model like mlb suggested with 50% of money the league makes going to player salaries, and players receiving the rest of their salaries over the next 2 or 3 years at an interest rate matching inflation

[Deadpool]

Yes, how dare owners not want to lose money. They are billionehs and millionehs so who cares if they lose some? We should force them to agree to whatever deal the players want. We could definitely still play baseball and players could still make as much money without any owners.

 

Hey, if they don't want to lose money, that's fine they didn't get to be parasites by honouring their agreements. But to claim "we deserve money because we take all the risk" and then as soon as something bad happens start crying poor? Nah, f*** that. This *IS* the risk they were supposed to be taking, and they've now shown that the whole narrative is ******** (which was obvious from the get-go, but y'know...)

[polar bear]

Yes, how dare owners not want to lose money. They are billionehs and millionehs so who cares if they lose some? We should force them to agree to whatever deal the players want. We could definitely still play baseball and players could still make as much money without any owners.

 

Exactly.

[glory]

According to Heyman, 65% of MLB players make $1 million or less. The owners were pretty slick in proposing this because 65% of the league in this scenario will end up getting a prorated cut of their 2020 salary (as the MLBPA originally accepted). Someone who makes $600k (the Jays have a lot of these types) will end up getting around $300k for playing half the amount of games. Someone making $1m is getting slightly less than $500k. So the owners created a proposal that benefits the majority of the league, and only hurts the players making $5m or more per year. I don't think the players will accept this anyway, but smart move on their part.

 

I understand both sides. Owners are owners because they make good financial decisions. They don't want to pay players out of their own pocket, they want to use revenue to pay players/expenses and pocket the rest. That is how all businesses work. So while it looks greedy as hell, the owners are within their rights. Just as the players are within their rights. They have guaranteed contracts and there is no salary cap or revenue sharing, so it revenue goes up or down, it shouldn't impact their money. So I can see their side as well. We just have to hope there is a happy medium.

[Boxcar]

Hey, if they don't want to lose money, that's fine they didn't get to be parasites by honouring their agreements. But to claim "we deserve money because we take all the risk" and then as soon as something bad happens start crying poor? Nah, f*** that. This *IS* the risk they were supposed to be taking, and they've now shown that the whole narrative is ******** (which was obvious from the get-go, but y'know...)

 

One of the risks they should have taken into account is an unprecedented pandemic? Lol ok

[Carlos Danger]

Hey, if they don't want to lose money, that's fine they didn't get to be parasites by honouring their agreements. But to claim "we deserve money because we take all the risk" and then as soon as something bad happens start crying poor? Nah, f*** that. This *IS* the risk they were supposed to be taking, and they've now shown that the whole narrative is ******** (which was obvious from the get-go, but y'know...)

 

What Boxy said. There are risks in the typical business model. If they were losing money because everyone of their $25 million a year players is on the DL or there are no fans in the seats because they have a s***** team or they decided to invest in a team in a city with a s***** fan base etc, their problem, agree 100%.

 

However, this is an unprecedented pandemic. The GOVT is mandating restrictions that can not be accounted for in a normal business model. There ARE Force Majeure stipulations in the CBAm even if the word Force Majeure is not used specifically.

 

You cannot (with any credibility anyway) make a blanket and frankly weak statement that the players have a contract so the owners have to pay no matter what.

 

Remember, if players do things which can void a contract, like certain motorsports, criminal behaviour, social polices etc, the players contract can be voided, theye do not get their salary no matter what they do and happens, even if there was not a global pandemic.

 

I am not saying the owners are in the right in this, nor am I saying the players. I am speaking specifically to this perception they have a contract and they should be paid their full amount no matter what argument.

[Deadpool]

One of the risks they should have taken into account is an unprecedented pandemic? Lol ok

 

Yes. They get free stadiums, stupid tax breaks across the boards, ridiculous revenue baked into the system. Hell if they don't make enough money, they get revenue sharing. They have no actual risks OTHER than the unexpected.

[Boxcar]

So now you're whining about them getting things that they negotiated with the players. As for "free stadiums" that's up to the municipalities involved to deem that taxpayer funding for the stadium will have a net positive effect on the community. Same goes for your unspecified tax breaks. The purpose of tax breaks is to entice companies and individuals to invest in your city and your people. Unlike what AOC thinks, tax breaks are not the same as cutting a cheque to an owner.

 

Both sides have to negotiate this. To say the owners should ignore their own interests because f*** rich people is such a juvenile way to look at it. Stop being so angry.

[connorp]

Personally I don’t see much difference between people who hate owners and the people that complain that athletes make millions of dollars while teachers, police, etc make nothing.

 

I don’t get it when they take one side and not the other lol

[Barkerfan23]

Personally I don’t see much difference between people who hate owners and the people that complain that athletes make millions of dollars while teachers, police, etc make nothing.

 

I don’t get it when they take one side and not the other lol

 

it's much easier to hate grown men making millions for throwing a ball around

 

then to hate individuals and congratulates that have made their money through business and hard work

[Grant77]

I'll hate both sides if we don't get any baseball soon. I don't care who is greedy, who is right, or who is wrong. People are looking to players and owners to act like grown men and figure out a solution so we can get some desperately needed entertainment. Everyone else is doing their part. They need to do the same.

[Jonn]

I just don’t know how these 2 sides can bridge the gap at this point. Especially with the players already pissed off. The owners would have to give in to the players and that looks super unlikely. Time to cut their losses and come back next year as much as that sucks. I just don’t see how they can do any kind of meaningful season between July-September. Playing into October would be a risk because you’re entering flu season and most likely a second wave of Corona Virus. Even if they agreed to something this weekend. They would still have to get everyone to location. Quarantine. Do a spring training. And we are looking at what mid July start with that timeline? And this doesn’t even look close. I assume they would be aiming for a July 4th start to bring back Baseball on a holiday that’s meaningful for Baseball. But man I’m not holding my breath. Yikes.

[glory]

[Brownie19]

How the f*** are they going to play 100+ games?

[Jonn]

How the f*** are they going to play 100+ games?

 

Double headers multiple times a week I suppose. I don’t know how they could possibly balance that while keeping the players seemingly in a bubble. Obviously they would realign divisions by spring training location but its not like those teams can just play each other constantly. That wouldn’t hold any integrity in terms of competition. And its not like they can just host all teams at a couple different complexes. Just to many games and teams need to play. We haven’t even heard a realistic concrete plan yet. Right now the 2 sides can’t even agree on money lol. Which isn’t an issue in the NBA or NHL because they already got paid.

 

The only way a season happens is if the Owners give into the players. That seems hopeless.

[Brownie19]

Why is it only MLB that's bitching about money? What is happening in the NHL, NBA and NFL? Why was it a complete non-story there?

 

Whether it's CBA disputes, money, cheating or steroids - it seems MLB is always in the news for all the wrong reasons.

[glory]

NBA and NHL played most of their regular season already, so it's just a matter of finishing the playoffs for them. MLB hasn't even started the season yet so they haven't begun to see revenue at all. If MLB had already played 130 games and just needed to crown a World Series champion, then this issue between the league and union probably wouldn't even exist right now. But they are literally starting from scratch.

 

I think we can assume that safety isn't a big sticking point. The players actually want to play more games than the league does, so they clearly don't have an issue with the safety protocols. If they want to play more and get a prorated salary based on games played, then it's 100% about money. Call a spade a spade here. Owners want to maximize profit and players want to make as much as they can. It's not about the sport or the fans at this point. Bad optics would be an understatement.

[Jimcanuck]

How the f*** are they going to play 100+ games?

 

Doable if the regular season extends to when the WS would normally end, and the post season takes place at neutral parks in the south.

[Brownie19]

NBA and NHL played most of their regular season already, so it's just a matter of finishing the playoffs for them. MLB hasn't even started the season yet so they haven't begun to see revenue at all. If MLB had already played 130 games and just needed to crown a World Series champion, then this issue between the league and union probably wouldn't even exist right now. But they are literally starting from scratch.

 

I think we can assume that safety isn't a big sticking point. The players actually want to play more games than the league does, so they clearly don't have an issue with the safety protocols. If they want to play more and get a prorated salary based on games played, then it's 100% about money. Call a spade a spade here. Owners want to maximize profit and players want to make as much as they can. It's not about the sport or the fans at this point. Bad optics would be an understatement.

 

what about the NFL? I doubt they'll have fans in the seats and there's a chance the 2nd wave of COVID will hit right in the middle of their season.

[connorp]

I'll hate both sides if we don't get any baseball soon. I don't care who is greedy, who is right, or who is wrong. People are looking to players and owners to act like grown men and figure out a solution so we can get some desperately needed entertainment. Everyone else is doing their part. They need to do the same.

 

Yeah, that’s the point. It will be both sides failure. I just don’t get when someone is like “f***ing greedy owners” but overlook the fact the players position is being driven by the higher-paid players who even with reduced salary stand to make more in a few months playing baseball than the average person makes in two or 3 lifetimes.

[Jonn]

Doable if the regular season extends to when the WS would normally end, and the post season takes place at neutral parks in the south.

 

One of the things brought up in the NBA and NHL discussions is how they want to get the playoffs in before early Fall at the latest. There is a significant chance we get a big second wave of the Virus that could cause things to shutdown. Considering a lot of buisnesses are preparing for that reality we might not have to full on shut down again. Right now is the window to get things done.

 

Nobody should expect the NBA and NHL to start up again in December on schedule. NBA has discussed a Christmas day start time. Its likely the start of their next season gets delayed as well. I don’t think will see Baseball played in the Winter. You have to eventually get things back to normal and that would be almost impossible in that scenario. The risks of injuries alone makes it unlikely.

[Brownie19]

One of the things brought up in the NBA and NHL discussions is how they want to get the playoffs in before early Fall at the latest. There is a significant chance we get a big second wave of the Virus that could cause things to shutdown. Considering a lot of buisnesses are preparing for that reality we might not have to full on shut down again. Right now is the window to get things done.

 

Nobody should expect the NBA and NHL to start up again in December on schedule. NBA has discussed a Christmas day start time. Its likely the start of their next season gets delayed as well. I don’t think will see Baseball played in the Winter. You have to eventually get things back to normal and that would be almost impossible in that scenario. The risks of injuries alone makes it unlikely.

 

NHL and NBA start well before December. I did hear the NBA was thinking of waiting and opening on Christmas Day and making that the 'new norm'.

 

So with that said - why don't you hear any of this from the NFL? They aren't negotiating salaries based on empty stadiums, they don't seem worried about playing in the fall, etc.

 

If the NHL and NBA don't think they'll be able to start next year at the normal time - I would assume they'll end up in payment negotiations like MLB is?

 

 

What a mess.

[Abomination]

NHL and NBA start well before December. I did hear the NBA was thinking of waiting and opening on Christmas Day and making that the 'new norm'.

 

So with that said - why don't you hear any of this from the NFL? They aren't negotiating salaries based on empty stadiums, they don't seem worried about playing in the fall, etc.

 

If the NHL and NBA don't think they'll be able to start next year at the normal time - I would assume they'll end up in payment negotiations like MLB is?

 

 

What a mess.

 

The NHL and NBA don't think they can start on time because of the extended time required for the playoffs. They could still likely get in all the games. They've done compressed schedules in Olympic years in the past, and could simply run it an extra month into the summer next year.

 

I would assume we'll hear of something similar to MLB happening with the NFL if they have to play in front of empty seats. They aren't going to open contentious talks about it until it becomes an absolute.

[Spanky__99]

[Spanky__99]

Yup...

 

[TheHurl]

what about the NFL? I doubt they'll have fans in the seats and there's a chance the 2nd wave of COVID will hit right in the middle of their season.

 

Smaller percentage of their revenue comes from gate (under 15%) and they have watched the Bundesliga who have recovered half their gate through additional sponsorship. I was on a call with someone in marketing from Pegula sports ( Buffalo Bills). They have thought about selling seats in camera view to photos of season ticket holders. Those crafty f***ers are going to get the fans to pay for their images to sit in the crowd.

 

MLB is too stupid to be thinking about revenue recovery methods. Sorry if this was already discussed once a week is my max for this forum now.

[Abomination]

Smaller percentage of their revenue comes from gate (under 15%) and they have watched the Bundesliga who have recovered half their gate through additional sponsorship. I was on a call with someone in marketing from Pegula sports ( Buffalo Bills). They have thought about selling seats in camera view to photos of season ticket holders. Those crafty f***ers are going to get the fans to pay for their images to sit in the crowd.

 

That's actually pretty clever. I don't understand why people would pay for it, but I'm sure they will.